Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > Video Cards and Graphics

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Home and Garden
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-07-2013, 02:12 PM   #276
blackened23
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,556
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamK47 View Post
I don't know what you just said.
Some type of subliminal message urging you and everyone to buy more nvidia stuff. 2 more 690s and a tegra 3 tablet should do it.
blackened23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:30 PM   #277
AnandThenMan
Platinum Member
 
AnandThenMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,668
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay View Post
I think the people with the obvious bias towards either brand choose to ignore this in order to advance their agenda.
A certain member here outright admitted they are 100% Nvidia biased, so why even bother taking anything they post seriously? This entire thing is absolutely ridiculous, but I have to hand it to Nvidia, they are a marketing force. The minions eat it right up, my favorite is the guy who says he sees stuttering going from a GTX580 to a 7970.
AnandThenMan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:31 PM   #278
AdamK47
Lifer
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 10,842
Default

I'd also like to know what Railven said about me that was so spot on. Searched and couldn't find anything.
__________________
Intel Core i7 5960X - Asus Rampage V Extreme - 16GB Corsair Vengeance LPX DDR4 - Four Nvidia GTX 980s in 4-Way SLI - 256GB Samsung 850 Pro SSD - Five 1TB Samsung 840 EVO SSDs in 5TB RAID-0 - 6TB Seagate 7200RPM HDD - Pioneer BDR-206 BD-RW - Corsair Obsidian 750D case - Thermaltake Water 3.0 Ultimate cooler - Corsair AX1500i power supply - Razer BlackWidow Ultimate keyboard - CST LaserTRAC 2545W trackball - BenQ BL3200PT monitor - Shure SRH1440 headphones - Windows 8.1 Pro x64
AdamK47 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:39 PM   #279
SirPauly
Diamond Member
 
SirPauly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackened23 View Post
Some type of subliminal message urging you and everyone to buy more nvidia stuff..

Sarcastic conspiracy theory:


Indeed! Think the unsmooth frames that do happen with nVidia products are subliminal messages, specifically with AFR and controlled to more levels by their frame metering and called this micro-conditioning years ago! It isn't their hardware, software prowess or their pro-active nature that creates the biased, loyalist nVidia mind-set.
SirPauly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:43 PM   #280
blackened23
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 8,556
Default

I was just joking, I don't disagree about nvidia's hardware and software prowess. I was actually impressed by how much the latest drivers improved Far Cry 3 in SLI - game plays great for me now.
blackened23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:45 PM   #281
SirPauly
Diamond Member
 
SirPauly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 4,870
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackened23 View Post
I was just joking,
So was I!
SirPauly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:47 PM   #282
railven
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 3,156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamK47 View Post
I'd also like to know what Railven said about me that was so spot on. Searched and couldn't find anything.
I think it was a miscommunication. I don't even know who you are! And I don't mean that rudely, haha.
__________________
Me: ASRock Z68 Gen3Pro3||Intel i7 2600K@4.2ghz||2x4GB Corsair Vengeance||MSI GTX 780 Lightning||Creative Z||Samsung 840 Evo/OCZ Vertex 4||Corsair Carbide 500R White||Corsair TX750W||Corsair H60
Her: ASrock Z77 Pro4||Intel i5 3570K||2x4GB Corsair Vengeance||EVGA GTX 680 + 100 Offset||ASUS Xonar DG||Samsung 840 Evo/Intel 320||Cooler Master Scout||Corsair 600W GS||Cooler Master 212+ Evo
railven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #283
Homeles
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,585
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by VulgarDisplay View Post
A problem where a malicious attack can destroy your system, or a problem that you most likely can't even detect. You need to realize I'm not attacking nvidia or defending AMD. I'm just drawing attention to the absurd amounts of effort certain members of this forum devote to downplaying nvidia problems and blowing AMD issues out of proportion.

Now they will reply by saying that they can detect the problem and that's why they only buy nvidia cards. They will even say that this had been a problem for years. All while people who actually use AMD GPUs have been happily playing games with no problems.
AMD has had security issues too, such as their lack of ASLR support in EMET earlier this year.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5966/u...river-security

Security vulnerability issues happen from time to time for every single software and hardware company in existence. That is just how computers work — I'm glad that you've given me the opportunity to enlighten you.

Citing one issue by its lonesome and implying that the company with that is less competent than another is completely inane. Like the people pointing out Nvidia shimmering issues that happened a good 6 years ago. What else has happened since then? If you are incapable of producing a series of failures over a period of time, your argument is not worth the pathetic amount of storage space it takes up on these servers.
Homeles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 02:59 PM   #284
Keysplayr
Elite Member
 
Keysplayr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamK47 View Post
I don't know what you just said.

Dude, it was from my smartphone and it turned stupid. Scouts honor. LOL I'll fix it.
__________________
Member of Nvidia Focus Group
NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time
to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.

i5 2500K Asus P-Z68-V/Gen3 GTX980 SLI
Keysplayr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:02 PM   #285
Keysplayr
Elite Member
 
Keysplayr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackened23 View Post
Some type of subliminal message urging you and everyone to buy more nvidia stuff. 2 more 690s and a tegra 3 tablet should do it.
Yes. Lets make it more about Keysplayr and less about the subject. That'll work.
__________________
Member of Nvidia Focus Group
NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time
to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.

i5 2500K Asus P-Z68-V/Gen3 GTX980 SLI
Keysplayr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:03 PM   #286
Keysplayr
Elite Member
 
Keysplayr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,992
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnandThenMan View Post
A certain member here outright admitted they are 100% Nvidia biased, so why even bother taking anything they post seriously? This entire thing is absolutely ridiculous, but I have to hand it to Nvidia, they are a marketing force. The minions eat it right up, my favorite is the guy who says he sees stuttering going from a GTX580 to a 7970.
Which member? And show us the quote.
__________________
Member of Nvidia Focus Group
NVIDIA Focus Group Members receive free software and/or hardware from NVIDIA from time to time
to facilitate the evaluation of NVIDIA products. However, the opinions expressed are solely those of the Members.

i5 2500K Asus P-Z68-V/Gen3 GTX980 SLI
Keysplayr is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:08 PM   #287
Final8ty
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,012
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Yep. This happens in all fields. That's why the negative results from blind testing are interesting to me. Sure, something's going on with the measurement but as far as anyone can show, what's being measured is tough to perceive without someone telling you beforehand what you're supposed to see. This is perfectly consistent with all of the benchmarks out there, too - as others have pointed out, the measured problems with nV 5xx cards were never seen before in actual game play testing.

And yeah, I know we'll be accused of being blind. It's the same approach audio marketing takes when they want to sell $15,000 power cables (http://bmicable.com/oceanic_statement) and $200 magic stones (special sale! - http://www.musicdirect.com/p-7506-sh...zer-stone.aspx) which make music sound better. Sure, you'll hear a difference with these just so long as you believe the hype. When you don't know if they're installed or not, suddenly the difference goes away. There's a reason people spend so much money (and give away so much "free" hardware) for marketing.
LOL! great post and personally i only have the FPS counter on for a little while then turn it off and it only goes back on in any particular game if i see and think i have an issue.
__________________
AMD Piledriver FX-8350 5Ghz
NEC's 2560x1600 2x1600x1200 PLP 4960x1600
3xMSI 290 Gaming, 32GB Ballistix Tactical Tracer
Creative Sound Blaster ZxR, Corsair AX1500i PSU
Final8ty is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:26 PM   #288
Rikard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: The Alps
Posts: 423
Default

One thing that keeps bothering me is that despite having the same card as TR tested in their review I cannot reproduce their results, and I tried now for almost a month (OK I did other stuff too...)

I believe I have identified where on the map they are, and have a save with similar environmental conditions etc so I should be able to get their value of 31 ms in the 1% extreme. Instead I get 23 ms, corresponding to an instantaneous FPS of 43. When I am indoors I get about 19 ms in the 99th percentile, which is similar to their Whiterun scores, so the real question is why do they have so bad results outdoors which I cannot reproduce? Then, if I use Radeon Pro to fix the supposed microstuttering I get 19 ms also outside (which corresponds to 52 FPS instantaneous). I said before that I do not appear to be very sensitive to microstuttering, but is anybody really if you have one frame out of hundred dropping from 60 FPS to 43, or 52 for that matter?

Contrary to some people (mostly on other sites) I am not saying that TR are deliberately sabotaging their tests, but they seem to have a problem specific to themselves, and since I cannot reproduce their poor performance I still think we need more reviews on this if we should draw any conclusions from it. There could be something else in their setup that makes their results worse than what I can obtain. For example, I wanted to record a video like they did, but even when saving it on a separate drive the video recording itself caused stuttering.

And like I said in my previous post, I noticed some stutter in a few pathological cases that FRAPS are not picking up, so I think we need to go beyond what TR was doing. I find the PCPER method interesting for that purpose.
__________________
Fractal Design Define R4 | Asus P8Z68-V Gen3 | Intel i5-2500 @ 4.3 GHz | Corsair AX 650 W
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo | Corsair 16 GB 1.6 GHz | BluRay3D ASUS BC-12B1ST
Sapphire HD7950 Vapor-X (8+8 pin) | 2x Fractal Design Silent Series R2 | Corsair M90
3x Xigmatek XAF-F1454 | Maxkeyboard Nighthawk X8 Semi-custom(MX Brown)
Corsair Vengeance 2000 7.1 Headset | Samsung Syncmaster BX2450 1080p@75 Hz
Rikard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:46 PM   #289
f1sherman
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,159
Default

"cannot reproduce their results"...

you have same test scene/benchmark run like TR?

WTH

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard View Post
And like I said in my previous post, I noticed some stutter in a few pathological cases that FRAPS are not picking up,
No one responded to you because you dont seem to understand:

FRAPS fps curve is not supposed to pick up anything latency problematic. It's fraps frame-times(from log) that pick up AMD's issue.

EDIT: Fraps FPS curve with much longer polling time than typicaly frame time that is. If you are saying you have stuttering that even frame-times are not picking up that would be interesting.

Last edited by f1sherman; 01-07-2013 at 03:56 PM.
f1sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 03:56 PM   #290
Rikard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: The Alps
Posts: 423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1sherman View Post
"cannot reproduce their results"...

you have same test scene/benchmark run like TR?

WTH
Like I said, I think I reproduce their conditions quite accurately, so yes I do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by f1sherman View Post
No one responded to you because you dont seem to understand:

FRAPS fps curve is not supposed to pick up anything latency problematic. It's fraps frame-times(from log) that pick up AMD's issue.
I am talking of frame times. Please read before you post next time.
__________________
Fractal Design Define R4 | Asus P8Z68-V Gen3 | Intel i5-2500 @ 4.3 GHz | Corsair AX 650 W
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo | Corsair 16 GB 1.6 GHz | BluRay3D ASUS BC-12B1ST
Sapphire HD7950 Vapor-X (8+8 pin) | 2x Fractal Design Silent Series R2 | Corsair M90
3x Xigmatek XAF-F1454 | Maxkeyboard Nighthawk X8 Semi-custom(MX Brown)
Corsair Vengeance 2000 7.1 Headset | Samsung Syncmaster BX2450 1080p@75 Hz
Rikard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:00 PM   #291
f1sherman
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,159
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard View Post
Like I said, I think I reproduce their conditions quite accurately, so yes I do.
LOL

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rikard View Post
I am talking of frame times. Please read before you post next time.
Fair enough.

I don't believe that you have stuttering with smooth frame-time distribution.
f1sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:02 PM   #292
Hitman928
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1sherman View Post
Fair enough.

I don't believe that you have stuttering with smooth frame-time distribution.
I personally have experienced the same and have posted videos/graphs showing it.
Hitman928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:07 PM   #293
f1sherman
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,159
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hitman928 View Post
I personally have experienced the same and have posted videos/graphs showing it.


Stuttering with smooth, horizontal for most parts - delta function like behavior of frame time distribution? Similar to 660 Ti above... and yet stuttering?

I'd love to see that.
f1sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:10 PM   #294
Rikard
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: The Alps
Posts: 423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1sherman View Post


Stuttering with smooth, horizontal for most parts - delta function like behavior of frame time distribution? Similar to 660 Ti above... and yet stuttering?

I'd love to see that.
I think Hitman will give you the link now any second for you. Since that stuttering is quite severe and still giving constant frame times in FRAPS I suspect it has a very different cause, but that does not make it any less important.
__________________
Fractal Design Define R4 | Asus P8Z68-V Gen3 | Intel i5-2500 @ 4.3 GHz | Corsair AX 650 W
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 Evo | Corsair 16 GB 1.6 GHz | BluRay3D ASUS BC-12B1ST
Sapphire HD7950 Vapor-X (8+8 pin) | 2x Fractal Design Silent Series R2 | Corsair M90
3x Xigmatek XAF-F1454 | Maxkeyboard Nighthawk X8 Semi-custom(MX Brown)
Corsair Vengeance 2000 7.1 Headset | Samsung Syncmaster BX2450 1080p@75 Hz
Rikard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:21 PM   #295
f1sherman
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,159
Default

That would only be possible with frame-skipping.
CPU bottleneck perhaps.
And 60% CPU load, even across single core, does not mean it's not CPU bottleneck.

That's why PCPER idea is a huge step forward. Nothing goes undetected.
f1sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:37 PM   #296
Hitman928
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 412
Default



https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B11...XYwV3p2WVlBQmM

Download video and watch at it's native res (i.e. don't force it to full screen) for best viewing.
Hitman928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:48 PM   #297
f1sherman
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,159
Default

Hitman, can you post frame-times while you're at it?

BTW that wouldnt be Radeon Pro, would it?

I don't recall Afterburner's limiter producing such a flat curve.

And I did watch: Definitly frame-skipping
f1sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:51 PM   #298
Hitman928
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 412
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by f1sherman View Post
Hitman, can you post frame-times while you're at it?

BTW that wouldnt be Radeon Pro, would it?

I don't recall Afterburner's limiter producing such a flat curve.

And I did watch: Definitly frame-skipping
Those are frame times, unless you mean the raw data . . .

Yes, it's radeon pro.

I've never heard/seen anyone claim that using a frame limiter caused frame skipping. . .
Hitman928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 04:56 PM   #299
f1sherman
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 2,159
Default

Nvm raw data then...

Just use Afterburner if you really need limiter.

It seems that hard fps averaging, i.e. strict wait for frame draw that Radon Pro does has its deficiencies.
And thx for being honest
f1sherman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-07-2013, 05:30 PM   #300
Hitman928
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: AZ
Posts: 412
Default

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VlmRTRmUGJJS1E

raw data ^

I'll give Afterburner a try later on tonight if I have time.
Hitman928 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:23 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.