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Old 01-07-2013, 12:10 PM   #1
HumblePie
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Default What happens when a person with a gun is properly in place to stop a mass shooting?

This.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ng-4122668.php


Local news to me. Forgot to post it since I get wrapped up in work and my other thread. Basically guy goes into a Chinese restaurant with a gun and starts shooting, then chases the people that run into a nearby theater and continues shooting there. Off duty cop with a gun puts him down. So since the guy didn't have the time to randomly kill/injure tons of innocent people this never made it past local news. When good guys with guns are in place to stop bad guys with guns, you don't end up with lots of killed innocent people.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:12 PM   #2
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When good guys with guns are in place to stop bad guys with guns, you don't end up with lots of killed innocent people.
... if the good guy knows what he's doing. As a cop, I'd say he has significantly more experience with a gun than Average Joe.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:15 PM   #3
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Don't get me wrong, I'm all for gun ownership and CCW.. all I'm suggesting is that experience always outweighs inexperience, and that gun ownership isn't a magic wand that can substitute for experience.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:19 PM   #4
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This.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...ng-4122668.php


Local news to me. Forgot to post it since I get wrapped up in work and my other thread. Basically guy goes into a Chinese restaurant with a gun and starts shooting, then chases the people that run into a nearby theater and continues shooting there. Off duty cop with a gun puts him down. So since the guy didn't have the time to randomly kill/injure tons of innocent people this never made it past local news. When good guys with guns are in place to stop bad guys with guns, you don't end up with lots of killed innocent people.
Yeah glad an off duty cop was there to stop it. I don't pretend however if it was the average P&N gun owner it would have been the same result.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:20 PM   #5
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... if the good guy knows what he's doing. As a cop, I'd say he has significantly more experience with a gun than Average Joe.
You'd be surprised how little some departments qualify, and how much some civilians hit the range.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:22 PM   #6
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You'd be surprised how little some departments qualify, and how much some civilians hit the range.
No, that wouldn't surprise me. Shooting ranges != mass-shooting scenario, though.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:24 PM   #7
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Almost zero foiled mass shootings get national attention. Liberal media assumes it never happens, when in fact there is likely a 5:1 ratio (possibly higher) where private gun owners prevented all sorts of events (robberies, rapes, killings, etc.)

^^ Numbers are pulled out of my *** because nothing gets national attention. These stories however are everywhere in local news.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:24 PM   #8
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You'd be surprised how little some departments qualify, and how much some civilians hit the range.
It's not just about experience firing a weapon. It's experience in dealing with hi stress situations by previously being in high stress dangerous situations.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:29 PM   #9
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It's not just about experience firing a weapon. It's experience in dealing with hi stress situations by previously being in high stress dangerous situations.
Controlling the adrenaline response.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:31 PM   #10
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It's not just about experience firing a weapon. It's experience in dealing with hi stress situations by previously being in high stress dangerous situations.
That is what training is for. Training helps you deal with high stress situation. That's why we train all rookie soldiers before they go off into a dangerous situation so they do the right thing. Same thing with cops.

All CHL owners here in Texas must go through mandatory training. Which is pretty much the same in most states that are Shall issue states. The vast majority of law abiding gun owners go through some training as well. Won't claim all, but the large majority does.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:43 PM   #11
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That is what training is for. Training helps you deal with high stress situation. That's why we train all rookie soldiers before they go off into a dangerous situation so they do the right thing. Same thing with cops.

All CHL owners here in Texas must go through mandatory training. Which is pretty much the same in most states that are Shall issue states. The vast majority of law abiding gun owners go through some training as well. Won't claim all, but the large majority does.
Please don't compare CHL training to military or police training. CHL training is a joke in TX, any local retard can get a CHL if he's willing to devote half a day to listen to boring lectures and watching shitty videos on an old 25 inch CRT TV.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:45 PM   #12
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That is what training is for. Training helps you deal with high stress situation. That's why we train all rookie soldiers before they go off into a dangerous situation so they do the right thing. Same thing with cops.

All CHL owners here in Texas must go through mandatory training. Which is pretty much the same in most states that are Shall issue states. The vast majority of law abiding gun owners go through some training as well. Won't claim all, but the large majority does.
Which is really good I'm all for training, but training for dangerous circumstances and having experience with them are very different.

Take the clackamas mall, there was a ccw who had the gunman sighted and didn't fire. That may have been the right call, I suspect had it been a cop he would have engaged the suspect, walked him down and shot him if he made a move with his gun.

Police in most cases are just better trained/experienced to deal with these types if things than average gun owners.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:52 PM   #13
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No, that wouldn't surprise me. Shooting ranges != mass-shooting scenario, though.
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It's not just about experience firing a weapon. It's experience in dealing with hi stress situations by previously being in high stress dangerous situations.
How often do you believe the average LEO gets into a shoot out? There are many officers that will go their whole career without pulling their firearm. I can think of about 150+ local civilians I'd rather have in a high stress situation than some of the LEO I know any day of the week.
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Old 01-07-2013, 12:56 PM   #14
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How often do you believe the average LEO gets into a shoot out? There are many officers that will go their whole career without pulling their firearm. I can think of about 150+ local civilians I'd rather have in a high stress situation than some of the LEO I know any day of the week.
Depends on the jurisdiction.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:03 PM   #15
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Apparently, if you're not a member of a SWAT team or Seal Team 6, you're not qualified to use a firearm in defense.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:03 PM   #16
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How often do you believe the average LEO gets into a shoot out? There are many officers that will go their whole career without pulling their firearm. I can think of about 150+ local civilians I'd rather have in a high stress situation than some of the LEO I know any day of the week.
Shootouts? Not often, but I don't think Shootouts are the only thing that better prepares Leo
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #17
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Apparently, if you're not a member of a SWAT team or Seal Team 6, you're not qualified to use a firearm in defense.
Apparently, if you point out the difference between a cop and an Average Joe with a gun you're saying very few are qualified to use a firearm in defense.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:06 PM   #18
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Depends on the jurisdiction.
Maybe, but having experienced high stress combat, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that even military training doesn't making everyone that goes through it an efficient killing machine, some people just don't have it, training or not, and some could come out of that situation with no training and be fine.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:09 PM   #19
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Apparently, if you're not a member of a SWAT team or Seal Team 6, you're not qualified to use a firearm in defense.
Apparently you like to pull stuff out of your ass.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:09 PM   #20
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Maybe, but having experienced high stress combat, I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that even military training doesn't making everyone that goes through it an efficient killing machine, some people just don't have it, training or not, and some could come out of that situation with no training and be fine.
Sure, which still doesn't refute the point I made in the first place... which is that a gun isn't a magic wand that automatically makes someone good at defending other people, and that experience outweighs inexperience.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:16 PM   #21
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... if the good guy knows what he's doing. As a cop, I'd say he has significantly more experience with a gun than Average Joe.
What would it take to bridge the gap between an average CCW holder and that odd duty cop? Yearly shooting range practice? Maybe a more detailed course.

Maybe just previous enlistment in the military.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #22
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Sure, which still doesn't refute the point I made in the first place... which is that a gun isn't a magic wand that automatically makes someone good at defending other people, and that experience outweighs inexperience.
Technically your first point, the one I quoted and commented on was ...

Quote:
As a cop, I'd say he has significantly more experience with a gun than Average Joe.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:18 PM   #23
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... if the good guy knows what he's doing. As a cop, I'd say he has significantly more experience with a gun than Average Joe.
Actually that is often not very accurate. Cops have to take basically the same shooting test that my states CCW class requires once a year and thats it. They can quite literally only go to the range once a year to qualify and they are good.

OTOH, I enjoy going to the range and go quite often. I guarantee you that I put far more rounds downrange than at least 80% of cops around here. Just wearing the gun on your hip does not give you experience with it.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:20 PM   #24
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Please don't compare CHL training to military or police training. CHL training is a joke in TX, any local retard can get a CHL if he's willing to devote half a day to listen to boring lectures and watching shitty videos on an old 25 inch CRT TV.
It's obvious you've never tried to get a CHL in Texas. Even though I had a valid CHP from Virginia I had to take the training and pass the required proficiency test (CHL Qualification Course)

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/RSD/CHL...ndex.htm#train


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An original (first time) CHL applicant must complete a minimum 10 hour class, taught by a DPS certified CHL instructor. The class includes classroom and a proficiency demonstration (shooting). See CHL Qualification Course Requirements (PDF) for the proficiency demonstration requirements. There are four (4) required topics: use of force; non violent dispute resolution; handgun use; and safe and proper storage of handguns and ammunition. Additional topics may be taught as well. To locate a DPS certified CHL instructor, see Instructor list.
Upon successful completion of the training class, the DPS certified instructor should provide you with a Certificate of Training (CHL-100). You will need to submit this form to the Department in order to complete your application.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:20 PM   #25
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Just wearing the gun on your hip does not give you experience with it.
Neither does just owning one as an average citizen.
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