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Old 01-07-2013, 06:42 AM   #351
ShintaiDK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MightyMalus View Post
Considering that I been wanting to build my first desktop for awhile and I have been waiting for all sorts of info about Haswell, the more I know, the less I even want one.

If GT3 is all about perf/watt, does that make the GT2 the "enthusiast" iGPU? GT2>GT3? wtf Intel, WTF!

Not only that, no GT3 in desktop OR notebooks. Again, what the heck? They got a deal with Nvidia or something? I would not be surprised about that.

To sum it up, all I cared about Intel was its iGPU.
There are 3 GT3 models.
Regular laptop quadcore+GT3.
Regular laptop dualcore+GT3.
ULV laptop dualcore+PCH+GT3.

GT3 is only about performance/watt in the ULV.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:50 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by NTMBK View Post
130W- compared to the 2600k's 95W, including on die graphics. Yeah, that's a big jump in TDP.

Those memory bottlenecks get worse with more cores. It's pretty obvious. There's a good reason why Sandy Bridge E has a quad-channel memory controller.
How much power do you think my CPU is drawing?

I think it might be a tad more than 95w.

http://www.legionhardware.com/articl...e_guide,8.html

Go through that, and tell me again about how bandwidth starved 6 cores are.

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Winrar = 23%
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:51 AM   #353
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Someone with leaks of performance some A0/A1 revision chip?
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:14 AM   #354
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Originally Posted by Acanthus View Post
How much power do you think my CPU is drawing?

I think it might be a tad more than 95w.
Why would your overclocked powerconsumption be relevant in terms of what SKUs Intel can make?
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:16 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by FlanK3r View Post
Someone with leaks of performance some A0/A1 revision chip?
Haswell is in PV/PRQ stage. So A0/A1 would be outdated.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:17 AM   #356
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Originally Posted by ShintaiDK View Post
There are 3 GT3 models.
Regular laptop quadcore+GT3.
Regular laptop dualcore+GT3.
ULV laptop dualcore+PCH+GT3.

GT3 is only about performance/watt in the ULV.
Where is the info about the GT3 in notebooks being higher performance parts than the ULV GT3? I have not seen that.


But, on the Desktop side of things, looking at the artic leaks here -> http://wccftech.com/arctic-cooling-l...irmed-lga2011/

I wonder what a cheap(EDIT:low clocked) HSW cpu will cost? Mainly the Core i7-4765T.
What's comparable in price by IVB terms right now?

I might go haswell if the cpu+mobo combo doesn't cost an arm and a leg...
And I also hope the "1150 low power" and "1150 standard power" sockets don't mean anything other than the TDP's of the chip.

Last edited by MightyMalus; 01-07-2013 at 07:19 AM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:19 AM   #357
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Haswell is in PV/PRQ stage. So A0/A1 would be outdated.
It'd be a miracle if it was representative of the final product. Can you imagine getting a flawless Haswell back from tape-out.

Last edited by Homeles; 01-07-2013 at 08:00 AM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 07:26 AM   #358
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It'd be a miracle if it was representative of the final product? Can you imagine getting a flawless Haswell back from the fab?
At this time they better be close, if not flawless. Mass production will soon start.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:00 AM   #359
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At this time they better be close, if not flawless. Mass production will soon start.
Was talking about A0/A1.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:37 AM   #360
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So, I believe, someone must have some ES to show ...I saw only one old benchmark of first ES at Chiphell, but is it long time ago...
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:48 AM   #361
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So, I believe, someone must have some ES to show ...I saw only one old benchmark of first ES at Chiphell, but is it long time ago...
Honestly, I don't want to know ahead of time for Haswell. I want it to be like opening a Christmas present.

But that isn't going to happen.
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:49 AM   #362
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Alittle more info perhaps:


Last edited by ShintaiDK; 01-07-2013 at 08:54 AM.
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Old 01-07-2013, 10:24 AM   #363
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Quote:
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Quote: Originally Posted by Haserath View Post Does anyone know the theoretical flops of Ivy's HD4k?
Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelUser2000 View Post
16EUs x 4 FMA per EU x 2 issue @ ~1.1GHz = 282GFlops. That's peak FLOPs. The practical FLOPs probably end up at ~220GFlops.
"The raw performance of integrated GPU, in single-precision FLOPS, can be calculated as follows: EU * 4 [dual-issue x 2 SP] * 2 [multiply + accumulate] * clock speed.
For example, the HD Graphics 3000 is rated at 125 GFLOPS,[55] which is consistent with the formula (12 * 4 * 2 * 1,300 MHz). HD4K = 16EUs x 4 FMA per EU x 2 issue @ ~1.1GHz = 282GFlops."~from wikipedia

Can someone please dumb this down for me completely? I seem to not getting the HD4000 GFlops on my own. (16*4*2*1.150MHz = 147.2)
But its probably because HD3K is based on SNB and HD4K is based on IVB, meaning that IVB have different "FMA's" and "issues" or something...and making the info in wiki above, incorrect also?

Any help would be greatly apretiated!

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Old 01-07-2013, 10:28 AM   #364
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Alittle more info perhaps:


Old news and outdated. And you forget the source btw.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:37 PM   #365
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Why would your overclocked powerconsumption be relevant in terms of what SKUs Intel can make?
It proves that the socket can handle far more power consumption.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:50 PM   #366
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It proves that the socket can handle far more power consumption.
Every single board out there? Or your board?
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Old 01-07-2013, 08:50 PM   #367
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Every single board out there? Or your board?
Considering mine is a low-mid range board... anyone who doesn't use absolute crap for components.
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:45 PM   #368
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Can someone please dumb this down for me completely? I seem to not getting the HD4000 GFlops on my own. (16*4*2*1.150MHz = 147.2)
You are missing a critical enhancement with Ivy Bridge.

Sandy Bridge has a math unit with every FMA vector pipeline. Ivy Bridge takes that math unit and adds the ability to execute lot of the common instructions the FMA pipeline can do. So it effectively becomes like having 2 FMA units.

So you gotta go and double your number again for Ivy Bridge.

Quote:
Regular laptop quadcore+GT3.
Regular laptop dualcore+GT3.
ULV laptop dualcore+PCH+GT3.
No, only the mobile quad core and ULTs are getting GT3. The regular dual cores don't.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:31 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Acanthus View Post
Considering mine is a low-mid range board... anyone who doesn't use absolute crap for components.
So no, then.
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Old 01-08-2013, 03:57 AM   #370
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You are missing a critical enhancement with Ivy Bridge. Sandy Bridge has a math unit with every FMA vector pipeline. Ivy Bridge takes that math unit and adds the ability to execute lot of the common instructions the FMA pipeline can do. So it effectively becomes like having 2 FMA units. So you gotta go and double your number again for Ivy Bridge.
I got it from the wiki article. But thanks. Now lets see...

So for IVB HD4K it would be 16*8*2*1.150MHz = 294.4GFlops?

And a theoretical HSW HD4600 is 20*8*2*1.200MHz = 384GFlops

So, about a 30% increase from IVB, I guess it does work.


Now for the GT3 is a bit theorical even more, unless I missed the frequency of them?
Ahh, lets just see.

40*8*2*500MHz = 320GFlops
Likely scenario -> 40*8*2*600MHz = 384GFlops (Higher than a 6620G, 355.2GFlops)
40*8*2*700MHz = 448GFlops (Higher than a 7560D, 389.1GFlops)
40*8*2*800MHz = 512GFlops
40*8*2*900MHz = 576GFlops

Its seems that no matter how you look at it, HSW iGPU won't be much competition against AMD's, what AMD already had for a year. Hopefully 4th gen Intel graphics on Broadwell will bring a bigger impact.

Kinda saddened really -.-'' Is there any info about actual architectural changes on the iGPU of Haswell? Not just rumors? Seems HSW is just IVB iGPU's+4 EU's.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:23 AM   #371
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So no, then.
I don't know a lot of people that would couple a high end cpu with a $55 biostar motherboard...
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Old 01-08-2013, 09:42 AM   #372
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Originally Posted by MightyMalus View Post
40*8*2*500MHz = 320GFlops
Likely scenario -> 40*8*2*600MHz = 384GFlops (Higher than a 6620G, 355.2GFlops)
40*8*2*700MHz = 448GFlops (Higher than a 7560D, 389.1GFlops)
40*8*2*800MHz = 512GFlops
40*8*2*900MHz = 576GFlops

Its seems that no matter how you look at it, HSW iGPU won't be much competition against AMD's, what AMD already had for a year. Hopefully 4th gen Intel graphics on Broadwell will bring a bigger impact.
Search Anandtech for Haswell IDF coverage.

I'm thinking it'll end up at ~1GHz for the quad core GT3. With 640GFlops, that's approximately double what a Ivy Bridge GT2 running at 1.3GHz achieves. Since 20% gain in average will be enough to match Trinity in the mobile, they should be able to do it with GT2 alone. Of course they'll still be behind for Desktop.

Yes, there are cases where the HD 4000 is more than 20% behind but Haswell increases more than computational performance as well. Like doubling fixed function pipeline performance, and increase in texture performance in some scenarios up to 4x. Also adding the Resource Streamer to reduce driver bottlenecks. Those should help a lot to close up in the weak areas.
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Old 01-08-2013, 10:56 AM   #373
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I don't know a lot of people that would couple a high end cpu with a $55 biostar motherboard...
I don't know... people that don't need the additional connectivity?
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Old 01-08-2013, 11:13 AM   #374
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Search Anandtech for Haswell IDF coverage.

I'm thinking it'll end up at ~1GHz for the quad core GT3. With 640GFlops, that's approximately double what a Ivy Bridge GT2 running at 1.3GHz achieves. Since 20% gain in average will be enough to match Trinity in the mobile, they should be able to do it with GT2 alone. Of course they'll still be behind for Desktop.
The only problem is AMD will have updated Trinity (richland) which scores 20% more in 3dmark11 versus previous top mobile part 4600m. It's a moving target in Q2 and it will move once more in Q3/Q4 with Kaveri which will widen the gap even more in mobile sector(32nm->28nm, GCN 2.0 vs VLIW5,higher clocks- you get the picture). I still think Haswell will be a massive step in the right direction for intel but I doubt it will pose a threat to Trinity's/richland's iGPU .
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Old 01-08-2013, 01:45 PM   #375
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but Haswell increases more than computational performance as well. Like doubling fixed function pipeline performance, and increase in texture performance in some scenarios up to 4x. Also adding the Resource Streamer to reduce driver bottlenecks. Those should help a lot to close up in the weak areas.
Interesting. EDIT= Makes me wonder that with all those changes Intel has not really promoted the GT's at all. Like, calling them 4th gen IGPU's or something. Just % increases.

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The only problem is AMD will have updated Trinity (richland) which scores 20% more in 3dmark11 versus previous top mobile part 4600m. It's a moving target in Q2 and it will move once more in Q3/Q4 with Kaveri which will widen the gap even more in mobile sector(32nm->28nm, GCN 2.0 vs VLIW5,higher clocks- you get the picture). I still think Haswell will be a massive step in the right direction for intel but I doubt it will pose a threat to Trinity's/richland's iGPU .
Yeah, it seems that Richland won't be using GCN and still being at 32nm. Haswell will probably get close but Kaveri will show who's architecture is better. Not dismissing that BRW is supposed to be Intel's true next gen iGPU.

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