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Old 01-04-2013, 08:08 PM   #76
werepossum
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Originally Posted by Broheim View Post
but now he can live everywhere he wants to (except France which is obvious).

if I had paid 145 million euros in taxes and a fiscally inept government all of the sudden told me I had to pay my "fair share" so they could keep funneling my hard earned money into the ghettos filled to the brim with lazy thankless assholes who'd rather riot than get an education and a job then I personally would leave the country so fucking fast that I might kill some of the leeches simply by showing them what working looks like, Gerard didn't, he voiced his discontent and was then labelled "an enemy of the people", which is why he got the fuck out asap and renounced his citizenship.
Well said.

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Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan View Post
From your link:


Meanwhile...in Denmark.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/08/wo...anes.html?_r=0
Ooh, that ownage is gonna leave a mark!

When the hell did Denmark go insane? A list of 3,000 approved names for your male child? WTF? How did a nation celebrating the American Independence Day devolve into a nation with Name Police?

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Originally Posted by PokerGuy View Post
That's part of the problem, but I think a bigger part of the problem is that those who are responsible to pay the bill (the taxpayer) are too far removed from how the money is actually spent. If taxpayers had to actually pony up every penny that gets spent each year, they'd be much more likely to elect people who hold the line on spending.

Kind of like credit cards get people in trouble, or how the cost of health care rockets out of control because the patient doesn't always have a direct stake in the cost of the services and just want the best.

At this point there simply isn't much incentive for anyone in government to figure out how to spend less. There's no need to.
Excellent points all.
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Old 01-04-2013, 10:44 PM   #77
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http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/arti...good-in-france

Gérard Depardieu, you had it good in France

Now we know. Patriotism isn’t the last refuge of a scoundrel, Russia is.

The French actor Gérard Depardieu has thrown a tantrum, accepted Vladimir Putin’s passport offer and left France for good.

Imagine that. Imagine abandoning the country that took you from poverty to wealth and fame — not for a great cause, or the love of a woman with the eyes of Charlotte Rampling and the noble bearing of Aung San Suu Kyi — in a snit over an increase in your marginal tax rate.

And for Russia, no less. It beggars belief.

What about Russia appeals to Depardieu? It is “a great democracy,” Depardieu said.

“I love your country, Russia,” he wrote in an open letter to a nation preoccupied with a new century of degradation, a nation that might as well rename itself Collapsica. “I love its people, its history, its writers. I love your culture, your intelligence.”

Let’s get started. Russia’s history only rivals China’s for millions of citizens murdered. Its great writers are long dead, its culture stalled, its democracy a laughingstock.


Depardieu recently urinated on the carpet on an Air France flight in front of passengers. “Je veux pisser,” he was heard to say during takeoff. He blamed prostate problems. His companion said he gave the actor one of those mini-Evian bottles to pee in, but it was not up to the task.



What else can be said when it was put so well above?
Maybe that the time might come when Putin needs money and will just take all of Depardieu's and throw him in jail. Putin has done it before, many times. I fell sorry for his kids who will probably never want to live in Russian but can't walk down the street in France anymore.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:14 AM   #78
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Well said.


Ooh, that ownage is gonna leave a mark!

When the hell did Denmark go insane? A list of 3,000 approved names for your male child? WTF? How did a nation celebrating the American Independence Day devolve into a nation with Name Police?


Excellent points all.
Comes from someone in a country with an open container law? If I was you I would just stay very quiet.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:17 AM   #79
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that has always irked me, but is pretty far down on the list of shit that annoys me about Denmark.

at the top of which is: Licens (a tax you pay to danish radio for the privillege of owning a radio/tv/internet capable device), I have never and will NEVER pay that shit, it boils my blood and I take my anger out on the licens-man (the guy who calls or comes to your house to make sure you pay licens although he has zero authority), I've actually made them hang up on me during one of my rants which is pretty hard to do. They have only come to my apartment once and eventhough he could clearly see my TV behind me, I told him to go fuck himself (which i enjoyed immensely) and lit up a cigarette just so i could blow smoke in his face, I never smoke indoors but that is just how much I loathe everything he stands for. oh, and eventhough he could see my tv he was still powerless to do shit about it.

tied in first place is also the new law that IRS(called SKAT here in denmark) agents can now enter your property without a warrant. This complete disregard for the sanctity of the home and private property is only worsened by the fact that only IRS agents are allowed to do this and not cops (NOT THAT I WOULD WANT THAT EITHER!!!) but it shows that the government cares more about taking my money than protecting me from crime.

oh and draconian gunlaws...

I could keep going.
I would say your "licens" story is BS. Specially since its an offence in the danish law and the police would be called and next thing you go to court, unless you pay the fine from the police

The IRS part is also quite polished compared to the truth:
http://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=2049638

For those not reading danish or using a translator. Then the IRS can only go into the yard (not the house) and only if there is visible outside construction. Simply to check if they cheat in tax with unreported employment.

If the grass is greener....then you got the option of migrating. You can always start to enjoy wiretapping without a warrant for example.
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:53 AM   #80
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lol I had to look up "open container law". Dystopian.

The name thingy is exagerated but some government control is necessary because there are kids who are bullied because their parents are retards.
99% of people got normal names anyway so it's not even a problem, it's a problem only for people who want to be original and create horrible fake names.

The state media financing is a hairy issue here too, it's called BILLAG. That's the company that retrieves the 272 $/year per housing unit and company. To avoid paying it, the car must not be yours and you must not have internet connection. There are people who try to fight it.
Honestly I think it's stupid, just finance television through the income taxes and stop the endless discussions.
The state media cannot finance itself in this country and it's necessary for cohesion too so it's not like there's another way.

I agree that overly strict gun laws are stupid.

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Old 01-05-2013, 12:44 PM   #81
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I would say your "licens" story is BS. Specially since its an offence in the danish law and the police would be called and next thing you go to court, unless you pay the fine from the police

The IRS part is also quite polished compared to the truth:
http://www.skat.dk/SKAT.aspx?oId=2049638

For those not reading danish or using a translator. Then the IRS can only go into the yard (not the house) and only if there is visible outside construction. Simply to check if they cheat in tax with unreported employment.

If the grass is greener....then you got the option of migrating. You can always start to enjoy wiretapping without a warrant for example.
the police will not be called. they will not drag you to court. The only way (D)DR can get you to pay licens is if you sign a peice of paper saying that you own a device that require you to pay licens.

is anything I said about the new law wrong? today there are 235 different laws and rules that allow the authorities to completely disregard the sanctity of the home without a warrant. The whole reason for the law is to make it cheaper for SKAT to go after unreported employment, your rights are being eroded for the sake of cutting down on red tape. That is a pretty fucking slippery slope that can eventually lead to the dilemma of "fair trials are expensive, bullets are cheap". I for one will not stand idlely by as my rights are taken away, and should the government one day go completely overboard then I am ready to fight violently and die for my rights. I'd rather be a miserable free man than a content slave!

the are many pros to living in Denmark but there are also many cons, thus far the pros have outweighed the cons but should that change then I will either fight for my rights or get the hell out of that future commie hellhole depending on the circumstances. Nowhere does it say you have to put up with a certain amount of bullshit from the government, and when your rights are at stake then even the smallest infringemnt is a cause for outrage.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:01 PM   #82
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the police will not be called. they will not drag you to court. The only way (D)DR can get you to pay licens is if you sign a peice of paper saying that you own a device that require you to pay licens.

is anything I said about the new law wrong? today there are 235 different laws and rules that allow the authorities to completely disregard the sanctity of the home without a warrant. The whole reason for the law is to make it cheaper for SKAT to go after unreported employment, your rights are being eroded for the sake of cutting down on red tape. That is a pretty fucking slippery slope that can eventually lead to the dilemma of "fair trials are expensive, bullets are cheap". I for one will not stand idlely by as my rights are taken away, and should the government one day go completely overboard then I am ready to fight violently and die for my rights. I'd rather be a miserable free man than a content slave!

the are many pros to living in Denmark but there are also many cons, thus far the pros have outweighed the cons but should that change then I will either fight for my rights or get the hell out of that future commie hellhole depending on the circumstances. Nowhere does it say you have to put up with a certain amount of bullshit from the government, and when your rights are at stake then even the smallest infringemnt is a cause for outrage.
"Licens" is covered by law, the first one dating back to 1925.
The current law is here:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms...aspx?id=137077

Its simply a formality that its DR that sends the bills out. It could just as well be SKAT(As the swiss guy also suggests) or someone else. The money also goes to private TV and radio companies besides DR.

And yes, it is a case for the police and court if you refuse to pay:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms...x?id=137077#K5

So dont try and come here and play some kind of victim. When its you who are actually crossing the law that is democraticly agreed on.

You want freedom on the expense of other people. What a classic.
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Old 01-05-2013, 01:27 PM   #83
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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, freedom is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:30 PM   #84
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"Licens" is covered by law, the first one dating back to 1925.
The current law is here:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms...aspx?id=137077

Its simply a formality that its DR that sends the bills out. It could just as well be SKAT(As the swiss guy also suggests) or someone else. The money also goes to private TV and radio companies besides DR.

And yes, it is a case for the police and court if you refuse to pay:
https://www.retsinformation.dk/Forms...x?id=137077#K5

So dont try and come here and play some kind of victim. When its you who are actually crossing the law that is democraticly agreed on.

You want freedom on the expense of other people. What a classic.
the police cannot do anything even if they bothered to, they would need a warrant, something a judge will not give them just because DR says they think I have a TV. They could drag me to court but they wont, it will cost them much more to pursue litigation against people that doesn't pay licens than they could ever hope to rob from those people (and on a personal note, hiring a lawyer would not cost me anything because my dad is one).

IT IS OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT FREE SHIT AT THE EXPENSE OF ME, they take away my freedom to choose whether or not I want to pay for a shitty tv channel that produce nothing that I am interested in. i don't use DR's services and I do not intend on doing so. If they cannot survive in a free market then that means they don't deserve to survive at all. Civil disobedience is a vital tool for fighting oppressive bullshit, or do you think Rosa Parks should have stayed in the back of the bus and shut her ass up?

how the fuck would my freedom not to pay for shit I don't use cost anybody anything, unless you mean it's my civic duty to subsidize shit for everybody else, explain to me why the fuck that is all of the sudden fair? fuck this whole notion of solidarity! "it's selfish to want to keep your own hard earned money but it is solidarity to want to take somebody else's money for your own gain".
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:42 PM   #85
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Comes from someone in a country with an open container law? If I was you I would just stay very quiet.
not that I don't think that the open container law is dumb "no tolerance"-like bullshit, but there is a very distinct difference.

driving is a privilege, naming your child goes way beyond a right.
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:05 PM   #86
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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, freedom is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
your democracy just plain sucks then

a lamb only needs to vote to reach freedom, nothing more
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Old 01-05-2013, 03:11 PM   #87
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at the top of which is: Licens (a tax you pay to danish radio for the privillege of owning a radio/tv/internet capable device), I have never and will NEVER pay that shit, it boils my blood and I take my anger out on the licens-man (the guy who calls or comes to your house to make sure you pay licens although he has zero authority), I've actually made them hang up on me during one of my rants which is pretty hard to do. They have only come to my apartment once and eventhough he could clearly see my TV behind me, I told him to go fuck himself (which i enjoyed immensely) and lit up a cigarette just so i could blow smoke in his face, I never smoke indoors but that is just how much I loathe everything he stands for. oh, and eventhough he could see my tv he was still powerless to do shit about it.
what the deal?
you are paying radio\internet\tv licens indiretcly anyway
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:12 PM   #88
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the police cannot do anything even if they bothered to, they would need a warrant, something a judge will not give them just because DR says they think I have a TV. They could drag me to court but they wont, it will cost them much more to pursue litigation against people that doesn't pay licens than they could ever hope to rob from those people (and on a personal note, hiring a lawyer would not cost me anything because my dad is one).

IT IS OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT FREE SHIT AT THE EXPENSE OF ME, they take away my freedom to choose whether or not I want to pay for a shitty tv channel that produce nothing that I am interested in. i don't use DR's services and I do not intend on doing so. If they cannot survive in a free market then that means they don't deserve to survive at all. Civil disobedience is a vital tool for fighting oppressive bullshit, or do you think Rosa Parks should have stayed in the back of the bus and shut her ass up?

how the fuck would my freedom not to pay for shit I don't use cost anybody anything, unless you mean it's my civic duty to subsidize shit for everybody else, explain to me why the fuck that is all of the sudden fair? fuck this whole notion of solidarity! "it's selfish to want to keep your own hard earned money but it is solidarity to want to take somebody else's money for your own gain".
You just keep getting it wrong.

And as always, you confuse your egoism with freedom.

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what the deal?
you are paying radio\internet\tv licens indiretcly anyway
Please dont tell him. He already cant handle the information avaliable to him.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:19 PM   #89
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the police cannot do anything even if they bothered to, they would need a warrant, something a judge will not give them just because DR says they think I have a TV. They could drag me to court but they wont, it will cost them much more to pursue litigation against people that doesn't pay licens than they could ever hope to rob from those people (and on a personal note, hiring a lawyer would not cost me anything because my dad is one).

IT IS OTHER PEOPLE WHO WANT FREE SHIT AT THE EXPENSE OF ME, they take away my freedom to choose whether or not I want to pay for a shitty tv channel that produce nothing that I am interested in. i don't use DR's services and I do not intend on doing so. If they cannot survive in a free market then that means they don't deserve to survive at all. Civil disobedience is a vital tool for fighting oppressive bullshit, or do you think Rosa Parks should have stayed in the back of the bus and shut her ass up?

how the fuck would my freedom not to pay for shit I don't use cost anybody anything, unless you mean it's my civic duty to subsidize shit for everybody else, explain to me why the fuck that is all of the sudden fair? fuck this whole notion of solidarity! "it's selfish to want to keep your own hard earned money but it is solidarity to want to take somebody else's money for your own gain".
Here is the thing, you get to vote for your representation, that representation gets to vote on law, spending etc. You do not get to say what are where your tax dollars are spent outside of you vote.

The essence of your argument is that takes your freedom away.

So your simply saying our existing system of government robs your freedom. So the only thing that would restore that freedom is a system of government where you individually get to choose what where and how your tax dollars are spent.
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Old 01-05-2013, 04:49 PM   #90
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You just keep getting it wrong.

And as always, you confuse your egoism with freedom.



Please dont tell him. He already cant handle the information avaliable to him.
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Old 01-05-2013, 06:32 PM   #91
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I'm Belgian, we are having a large influx of wealthy French in the last months. Bernard Arnault (worth $41 billion) also applied for Belgian nationality. Taxes on labour here are very high but taxes on capital are very low. Only recently the govt introduced some kind of capital gains tax, there is no tax on wealth itself and if you know your way you taxable income will be very low because of the exceptions and constructions that are possible.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:09 PM   #92
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Comes from someone in a country with an open container law? If I was you I would just stay very quiet.
So you have no problem being property without even the right to name your own children as long as you can be drunken property. Gotcha.

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Democracy is 2 wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch, freedom is a well armed lamb contesting the vote.
Exactly. An armed man is a citizen; a disarmed man is a subject. Lots of people prefer being subjects because they are guaranteed free stuff.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:04 PM   #93
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Here is the thing, you get to vote for your representation, that representation gets to vote on law, spending etc. You do not get to say what are where your tax dollars are spent outside of you vote.

The essence of your argument is that takes your freedom away.

So your simply saying our existing system of government robs your freedom. So the only thing that would restore that freedom is a system of government where you individually get to choose what where and how your tax dollars are spent.
nope, the only system where I would be truly free is one where I wouldn't have to pay taxes... but that isn't going to happen so instead I will fight stupid bullshit like this.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:09 PM   #94
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nope, the only system where I would be truly free is one where I wouldn't have to pay taxes... but that isn't going to happen so instead I will fight stupid bullshit like this.
Just move to some solitude outside human civilization. And you got your wish. Then you can also enjoy your "freedom".
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:40 PM   #95
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Just move to some solitude outside human civilization. And you got your wish. Then you can also enjoy your "freedom".
my utopian society would a be place where the government's only function is to protect the rights of the people and is funded solely by those who infringe on other people's rights as part of their punishment, they would pay an amount equal to the cost of protecting society against their crime, ensuring that government's size would be exactly proportionate to the necessity of it's existance.

why is that such a bad vision?
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Old 01-06-2013, 05:39 PM   #96
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I'm of two minds here.

One is that he is a bit of a hypocrite. As stated his early success was via state funded movies. This is common outside of the US as most countries don't have the size for a private movie industry. So you can definitely argue he was happy to use tax dollars back them to drive his success and he should be giving back.

On the flip side....85% is freaking ridiculous and just flat out robbery. There needs to be a balance and 85% is not that.
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:01 AM   #97
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I'm of two minds here.

One is that he is a bit of a hypocrite. As stated his early success was via state funded movies. This is common outside of the US as most countries don't have the size for a private movie industry. So you can definitely argue he was happy to use tax dollars back them to drive his success and he should be giving back.

On the flip side....85% is freaking ridiculous and just flat out robbery. There needs to be a balance and 85% is not that.
Its 75% and its only applied on what you earn over 1 million euro. (1.3 million $)
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Old 01-07-2013, 06:12 AM   #98
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my utopian society would a be place where the government's only function is to protect the rights of the people and is funded solely by those who infringe on other people's rights as part of their punishment, they would pay an amount equal to the cost of protecting society against their crime, ensuring that government's size would be exactly proportionate to the necessity of it's existance.

why is that such a bad vision?
not much diferent than aristocracy,
state will punish basicly only the poor people, without actually give them an oportunity to grow
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:23 AM   #99
Broheim
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Originally Posted by Olikan View Post
not much diferent than aristocracy,
state will punish basicly only the poor people, without actually give them an oportunity to grow
why? paying your cost to society would not be the punishment but simply how the system would be funded, you'd still have to go to jail or whatever. If you cannot afford to pay the cost of your crime then that would mean hard labour, if you are dead and have no assets then it would be organ harvesting time/reclaiming whatever you have to cover the cost... rich or poor would not matter.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:38 AM   #100
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You guys need to get your talking points sorted out. First you say you cant tax the rich enough to support the welfare state and now without them who is going to pay for the welfare state?
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