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Old 01-01-2013, 08:21 PM   #26
rob.L
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Originally Posted by groberts101 View Post
I'm pretty sure that's the least of his worries now that the drive has locked.
of course but just found it funny how he praised the Samsung for including a physical CD meanwhile it doesn't include a desktop adapter for a flagship drive when even some budget SSDs include one.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:35 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Coup27 View Post
What, "Hey, this time we've validated it properly!"?
- Yea, right! It aint gonna take 6 months and some forum posts to turn that reputation around! I dont know why some ppl are in such a hurry jumping to their defence, what they did back with the vertext2/3, in the face of consumers and add the arrogance .. No thanks man.
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Old 01-02-2013, 03:41 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Coup27 View Post
This is the first I've seen of a Vector dying. If you can please try and push for a failure report so we can find out what caused it to die.
- Yes, yet again, how many members do we have with Vectors ?
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Old 01-02-2013, 08:41 AM   #29
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- Yea, right! It aint gonna take 6 months and some forum posts to turn that reputation around! I dont know why some ppl are in such a hurry jumping to their defence, what they did back with the vertext2/3, in the face of consumers and add the arrogance .. No thanks man.
Wanna bet?

Most consumers are not nearly as hardened.. or even aware of past issues for that matter.. that OCZ is known to be the WORST company in existence, eh?

Only the enthusiast types even give a damn as price and availability trump experience.. or bad luck/experiences.. almost every time for more average consumers. Newegg.. or hardware france ratings.. forum rants(good or bad) will only do so much to affect sales and that's just the way the world works my friend.

On average.. people are just sheep to be herded along with the masses when it's all boiled right down and OCZ's herd ain't exactly little.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:10 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by rob.L View Post
you samsung fanboys really need to stop lol the Vector is clearly the faster drive in real world scenarios where there are mixed read/write loads with actual data on the drive. Most of anands tests are on clean drives with no data on them which is pretty useless if you ask me and he likes to test all reads or all writes which is pretty pointless as well. This is just one example of a real world test that shows the Vector is faster and if you look around the web you will find more info backing this up. The Vector also recovers its performance much more quickly when being hammered and offers more consistent performance. Check the links below.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3358-7.html

http://techreport.com/review/23990/s...sd-reviewed/10

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ew,3358-5.html

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/511...w/index15.html

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Storage...v20060727-IOps

"Vector has a nice performance lead over everything else on the market including the Samsung 840 Pro (review coming just days after this one). Baring a CES surprise, Vector looks to lead the performance category all the way to CeBIT and maybe even as far as Computex."

"After running Vector next to a Samsung 840 Pro in identical Lenovo w530 notebooks, I can tell you that Vector is faster in real world tasks when writing data. When reading data the two are very close, nearly identical."

"The Samsung 830 Series was only recently unseated from the top of our overall performance rankings by the OCZ Vector. While the 840 Pro is an improvement over its predecessor, it's not fast enough to match the Vector"

"This test is one of the most grueling to throw at an SSD, and it's also one of the best chances for a well engineered controller to shine. I love it when a new controller technology comes along and creams everything else in the pack, and this time the Vector has done just that. The Vector turns in the best figures in everything save the Web Server test, where it rides along to nearly match the Samsung 840 Pro. Sustaining 55,000 IOPS is not easy to do with our Workstation test, but the OCZ Vector pulls it off nicely."

The myriad of Samsung fans are gonna flame you for this.

You can't say good stuff about OCZ at Anand. It's not allowed.
Moderators might ban you.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:58 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
The myriad of Samsung fans are gonna flame you for this.

You can't say good stuff about OCZ at Anand. It's not allowed.
Moderators might ban you.
lol - This is going to be good.
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Old 01-02-2013, 10:28 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by rob.L View Post
you samsung fanboys really need to stop lol the Vector is clearly the faster drive in real world scenarios SNIP
You seem to be stating that the Vector is faster than the Samsung 840Pro based on the real world tests that you linked. I honestly donít know which drive is fastest in the real world, as I donít own a Vector, but the links you provided do not support your assertion.

Toms: the first benchmark seems to be based on how long it took to clone a drive using a laptop as the source drive. Chances are that it was the laptop read speed that was being benchmarked, not the write speed of the drives under test, which would explain why all drives perform about the same.
The second benchmark appears to be based on 2.86 GB file with the concluding comment ďso the most accurate we can be is a claim that OCZ's Vector is on par with the non-SandForce-based competitionĒ.
The third benchmark is based on an AV scan. All I can say from experience is that if you time different AV runs on the same system you will find that results vary.
Tech Report: The correct link to real world copy speeds shows that there is no real difference in the write tasks.
Tweak town: All of the benchmarks are synthetic.
PC Perspective: They used a different capacity 840Pro to compare performance with the Vector, but excluding that the results are not conclusive either way.

Sadly there is no conclusive proof either way. Iím also unsure how the reviewers are timing the tasks. If they are going by Windows explorer they are measuring how fast the file system is and not how fast the storage system is. Sure there are related, but if you want to measure real world tasks it helps if you measure what you are specifically testing. Also most real world tasks are read intensive not write intensive, yet none of tasks are based on reads, apart from the AV scan, which is flawed.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:09 AM   #33
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the software Samsung includes is junk compared to a name brand like Acronis and they dont even include a 3.5in to 2.5in drive adapter for such a high cost drive. Most software is stored in the cloud nowadays. What happens if you lose or break the Samsung CD? I think it makes more sense to make it downloadable.
It's not mutually exclusive, you can include a CD and also have it available for download. This is standard practice for many companies like Asus, Gigabyte, Western Digital or Seagate that have drivers or software bundled with their products and also post them on their sites. OCZ is the odd man out. I like having everything come in the box with the product - it's literally penny-pinching not to include a CD. It's not the end of the world that a CD wasn't included - I even described it as "minor quibble" - but it's a convenience to have it on hand.

Quote:
of course but just found it funny how he praised the Samsung for including a physical CD meanwhile it doesn't include a desktop adapter for a flagship drive when even some budget SSDs include one.
My case includes a 2.5" mounting bracket so I don't need a 3.5" desktop adapter. That may be important to some people but it isn't to me.

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Originally Posted by Coup27 View Post
Did Newegg change the returns policy after you bought it?

This is the first I've seen of a Vector dying. If you can please try and push for a failure report so we can find out what caused it to die.

If you do get an 840 Pro, make sure you update the firmware as there was an update a few weeks ago.
I sent the drive back to Newegg for replacement so I don't know whether they'd provide a failure report. I assume I could get one if I had dealt with OCZ support directly but since I didn't, may be out of my hands now. There's a post on the OCZ Vector support forum about a dead drive from an Italian user from two weeks ago so his dead drive pre-dates mine. His died just after he installed Windows, much shorter lifespan than mine, but it sounds similar to what happened to me.

Last edited by ddarko; 01-02-2013 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:49 PM   #34
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Just noticed that someone from the UK on the OCZ forums just reported his 128gb Vector died after five days:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...d-vector-128gb

Coupled with this Italian user's report of his dead 256gb Vector here:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...mpleately-dead

plus my own experience with my Vector dying - random bad luck or something else? Newegg notified me today my replacement Vector has been shipped and I am not exactly jumping for joy at the news. The Samsung 840 Pro I picked up has been fine so far. I think I will stay with it.

Last edited by ddarko; 01-04-2013 at 08:01 PM.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:55 PM   #35
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Yeah thats scary I have a unopened Vector 128GB I got it before my 840 Pro 128GB, Im sticking with my 840 Pro too, I guess ill sell my Vector
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:54 PM   #36
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Just noticed that someone from the UK on the OCZ forums just reported his 128gb Vector died after five days:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...d-vector-128gb

Coupled with this Italian user's report of his dead 256gb Vector here:

http://www.ocztechnologyforum.com/fo...mpleately-dead

plus my own experience with my Vector dying - random bad luck or something else? Newegg notified me today my replacement Vector has been shipped and I am not exactly jumping for joy at the news. The Samsung 840 Pro I picked up has been fine so far. I think I will stay with it.
You look at support forums to determine reliability? How do you know it's not user error in those other cases? I'm sure you'd see similar stories if you looked at the 840 forums (if there are any..?).
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Old 01-05-2013, 08:59 PM   #37
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Not here to defend the Vector but seriously? You see FOUR dead drives out of who knows how many were sold and you've written it off as a bad product? Can you at least be fair and scour the Samsung forums too?
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:34 PM   #38
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Both my 830's have frozen my comp at windows start up and while gaming yet I never once saw my system freeze with my 7200 rpm spindle drive. SSDs are fast but for me their reliability has been sketchy at best. Maybe I got a bad pair but im seriously thinking about going back to spindle after almost a full year using these so-called elite samsungs.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:10 AM   #39
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So, i figured we had alot of "new" guys in here, so i did a headcount on this -not so huge thread-.

nick / # posts
eskp4sure : 1
josephjpeters : 55
Amnesia1187 : 19
rob.L : 12
Ao1 : 58
JJonah : 2

And I dunno, call me paranoid.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:14 AM   #40
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Not here to defend the Vector but seriously? You see FOUR dead drives out of who knows how many were sold and you've written it off as a bad product? Can you at least be fair and scour the Samsung forums too?
I had a quick scan out of interest. Nothing exciting.
Samsung Product Review Feedback for 840Pro
http://www.samsung.com/us/computer/memory-storage/MZ-7PD256BW-reviews
Samsung Support Forum 840Pro
http://www.samsung.com/us/support/owners/product/MZ-7PD256BW
http://www.samsung.com/uk/support/model/MZ-7PD256BW-support/ask-and-answer
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:54 AM   #41
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I'm liking my 840 pro and it has sped up my system noticeably.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:01 PM   #42
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You look at support forums to determine reliability? How do you know it's not user error in those other cases? I'm sure you'd see similar stories if you looked at the 840 forums (if there are any..?).
I look at 1) personal experience; and 2) available data. Users reporting dead drives constitutes data - it's not the complete picture but it IS data and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as you seem eager to do. What evidence do you have to suggest the dead drives were caused by user error? Your own suspicions? What's the grounds you have for that? Does baseless suspicion qualify as evidence in your book? It doesn't in mine, I take the reports of dead drives at face value until evidence suggests otherwise.

People who have a bad experience with something are entitled to draw conclusions from it - they don't need a double blind, peer reviewed study before acting. If I get food poisoning at a restaurant, I don't keep on going back because there's no "evidence" it was anything more than a random fluke. OCZ has a history of reliability issues that the company itself alludes to and obliquely acknowledges when it advertises the Vector is the most thoroughly tested drive it has ever developed. I've got no axe to grind with them - you're free to look at my past posts, I've never ever even posted about any SSD maker before since this is my first one. In researching the drives, I became aware of the hostility many folks on forums have toward OCZ but I was open-minded about it because of the good reviews - $270 spent is proof of that. And the drive died on me three days after I installed it. Sorry if that doesn't constitute sufficient evidence of reliability for you.

You're free to spend your money as you wish and dismiss the reports of dead drives as random problems or caused by inept dummies but personally, I've got no desire to install the replacement Vector. Once burnt, I'm not going to stick my hand in the fire to make sure it's really hot. The Samsung 840 Pro I got is working well. It's been installed for a week now which is already over twice as long as the Vector's lifespan.

Last edited by ddarko; 01-06-2013 at 04:23 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:13 PM   #43
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I look at 1) personal experience; and 2) available data. Users reporting dead drives constitutes data - it's not the complete picture but it IS data and shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as you do. What evidence do you have to suggest the dead drives were caused by user error? Your own suspicions? What's the grounds you have for that? Until you can supply evidence that suggest user error is the cause, it's baseless conjecture on your part.

People who have a bad experience with something are entitled to draw conclusions from it - they don't need a double blind, peer reviewed study before acting. If I get food poisoning at a restaurant, I don't keep on going back because there's no "evidence" it was anything more than a random fluke. OCZ has a history of reliability issues that the company itself alludes to and obliquely acknowledges when it advertises the Vector is the most thoroughly tested drive it has ever developed. I've got no axe to grind with them - you're free to look at my past posts, I've never ever even posted about any SSD maker before since this is my first one. In researching the drives, I became aware of the hostility many folks on forums have toward OCZ but was open-minded about it and gave it a shot - $270 spent is proof of that. And the drive died on me three days after I installed it. Sorry if that doesn't constitute sufficient evidence of reliability for you. You're free to spend your money as you wish and dismiss the reports of dead drives as random problems or caused by dummies who don't know what they're doing but personally, I've got no desire to install the replacement Vector. The Samsung 840 Pro I got is working well. It's been installed for a week now which is twice as long as the Vector's lifespan.
For the record, I think this is quite fair and natural. It has a bad history, they say they've changed, you gave it a fair shake. Maybe the product isn't as good as they say it should be or maybe you got a bad draw of the lottery. Who knows. But if I were in your shoes, I'd probably react the exact same way since the 840 Pro is working fine.

In my own defense though, I was not trying to defend the Vector but merely trying to point out that any product (SSD or otherwise) shouldn't be written off as a failed product on the basis of a grand total of four dead units out of the (I'm guessing) thousands of units sold. But to be clear, I don't think it unreasonable that you are personally avoiding the product due to personal experience.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:44 PM   #44
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TemjinGold, that's very fair of you. You can see my attitude toward the Vector has changed a bit - in my very first post about it dying, even I included a caution not to draw a conclusion about the product. But while waiting for the RMA, I saw the posts on the OCZ forums about two other dead drives under similar circumstances. None of us reported dead drives out of the box - all drives were working when they were installed, they just died suddenly and without any warning signs within hours to five days of use. I've got no hesitation saying that's still not enough evidence to indict the Vector as buggy and just to be clear, I haven't said it is. But I do think the three reports is enough to start asking whether something else is going on and that's what I've done. There was a question mark at the end of my "random bad luck or something else?" comment and it wasn't rhetorical, I genuinely meant it as open-ended. There's not much more I can say, I don't have the time/knowledge/equipment to run my own tests on the replacement Vector. Other people will have to contribute their own experiences, both positive and negative.

Last edited by ddarko; 01-06-2013 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 07:20 PM   #45
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Ironically my backups are now even more important than when I had spinners. And they were extremely important then. It is the freakiness of the "instant death" that SSD's seem to have that spinners did not seem to have to such a degree. Which belies the generally accepted "these are MUCH more reliable than spinners" to a strange degree.

I was aware of OCZ in the beginning, and may have even had one at sometime. Vertex 2 or three rings a bell. But none broke, and I sold them on eBay as I do when I get newer drives. I am a true hard drive nut and love them and will always get a newer/better one before the current one croaks. At least croaks from being used up over time. I did have 2 DOA SSD's I think. One for sure from the Mac OWC. And that was supposed to be a superior drive in every way, and was very high priced. I sent it back for a full refund and have the same feeling about them as the above poster did with his Vector. Maybe the luck of the draw but I was not willing to go back.

I recently HAD food poisoning and THAT was a really strange ordeal especially as I could not pin down the source perfectly. I have my idea and will not be going there for a VERY VERY long time, if ever. And I really liked the place too.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:33 PM   #46
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Not here to defend the Vector but seriously? You see FOUR dead drives out of who knows how many were sold and you've written it off as a bad product? Can you at least be fair and scour the Samsung forums too?
I was thinking the same thing. You only see posts or hear about issues. No one with a perfectly working drive takes the time and effort to post in a support forum.

a few dead drives is nothing. I bet there is a few dead drives each day with Samsung... probably about 3% of sales. That seems about normal for SSD.

You can't declare anything on such a small sample size.

I also noticed most of the people posting negatives have Samsung 840 in the signature that predates the VECTOR release. Makes me question if they are making stuff up to defend a personal belief or bash on OCZ.
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Old 01-07-2013, 02:58 PM   #47
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You guys are unreal. Even when a new user buys OCZ's top of the range drive and it dies he's still not allowed to think anything negative about either the drive or the experience.
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Old 01-07-2013, 04:36 PM   #48
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I had two friends OCZ 128GB drives die. One with the Agility 2 and one with the Vector 3. One after 3months and another within the same time frame. That is enough to put me off. I went with the Samsung 830 256GB for reliability and speed. It's bottled necked at my 2008 Macbook SATA1 speeds anyway!

I've had 2-3 Western Digital and 2 Seagate drives die in the past as well And the IBM deathstars!

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Old 01-07-2013, 04:40 PM   #49
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I had two friends OCZ 128GB drives die. One with the Agility 2 and one with the Vector 3. One after 3months and another within the same time frame. That is enough to put me off. I went with the Samsung 830 256GB for reliability and speed. It's bottled necked at my 2008 Macbook SATA1 speeds anyway!

I've had 2-3 Western Digital and 2 Seagate drives die in the past as well And the IBM deathstars!

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both were Sandforce controlled drives.. so it's apples to cucumbers. But.. the point is valid enough aside from that discrepency.
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Old 01-08-2013, 12:13 AM   #50
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I was thinking the same thing. You only see posts or hear about issues. No one with a perfectly working drive takes the time and effort to post in a support forum.

a few dead drives is nothing. I bet there is a few dead drives each day with Samsung... probably about 3% of sales. That seems about normal for SSD.

You can't declare anything on such a small sample size.
A few things:

1) Plenty of people with good drives do post in threads. Lots of people post their benchmark scores, ask questions about how to increase performance, discuss performance expectations, etc. There's plenty of discussion in threads where you can infer a drive is functioning from the context of the comments, even if the comment isn't itself "my drive is working perfectly." I'm not saying that most people with good drives post in threads - they don't. But I think the notion that bad experiences are over-represented in comments while good experiences are under-represented is not necessarily true.

2) Under-representation in public threads cuts both ways - if good experiences are under-represented in them, so too are bad experiences. For every one person who has the knowledge and inclination to post about his/her problem, there are lots of folks with problem who don't. Not everyone with a problem has the awareness or even desire to post on forums about their tech problems. Lots of people with problem with deal privately with the retailer or tech support from the manufacturer and never discuss it in public forums.

3) It's always the case that public reports of a problem undercount the actual occurrences of the problem. This is not just true of tech problems but all walks of life - the vast majority of crimes are never reported, the vast majority of diseases or outbreaks are never publicly counted, etc. What's more, not only are problems under-reported, most people may not ever even experience a failure even if their product has a known defect. The vast majority of IBM Deathstar drives lasted their useful life without ever dying from the click of death (I wasn't so lucky). Even in the similar Iomega Zip Drive click of death case in the 1990s, where thousands of complaints were reported, Iomega said that 1 in 200 drives were affected - 0.5% (this according to Wikipedia's writeup of the case). Iomega sold millions of those cartridges. There was a design defect in those drives but still, most of those drives never broke down and even the reported dead drives was a tiny fraction of the total numbers sold. That doesn't mean those cartridges didn't have a design defect that made them vulnerable to read/write head failure.

I'm not saying every report of a problem is evidence of a fundamental flaw but every report of a problem should to be treated seriously. Look at the confirmed defects in the pre-production firmware of the Samsung 840 drives. As far as I can tell, a grand total of six dead drives triggered that investigation - two at Anand's labs, four elsewhere. Six drives out of thousands in the hands of end users. Let's be conservative and say Samsung had sold 1,000 840 drives at that point - 6 dead drives is a mere 0.6%, far below the 3% failure rate Mfusick describes as "normal" for SSD drives. If Samsung had an equally relaxed attitude toward SSD drive failure, it would have never discovered the bad pre-production firmware bug.

And btw, one of the reason I first went with the Vector over the Samsung 840 Pro is because of those reports of dead 840 drives. I read Samsung's assurances that the bug was only in pre-production firmware and did not involve retail products but I wasn't completely convinced (and honestly, I still sort of expect the Samsung drive to die on me). I think anyone who chooses to still pass on Samsung 840 drives because of those drive failures would be pretty reasonable.

Last edited by ddarko; 01-08-2013 at 12:30 AM.
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