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Old 01-02-2013, 10:52 AM   #101
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No, it was the same idea. The Nintendo 64 was the same basic naming idea; use the name of the company itself as the name of the console. That was the power of the Nintendo name. They just added '64' on the end this time to play up the marketing hype of the "bit wars" over their 32-bit competition.

The N64 was also largely a disappointment compared to the PSX, and "GameCube" was born.
At least they had some variation. It wasn't NES, NES 2, NES 3, NES 4, NES 5.

Market is too sterile and "safe" these days.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:51 AM   #102
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Nvidia isn't anywhere near releasing the GTX 700 series
GK110 parts have been shipping for months, I think it may be closer then you are thinking.

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At most, all-inclusive for the Blu-ray was $100, likely less than $75 iirc.
That is horribly inaccurate. While new tech tends to come with a hefty premium, do you honestly think a DSP for BluRay decode cost $500 while every chip in the PS3 combined cost less then that? The PS3 in most regions cost *less* then the cheapest standalone BR player when it launched. Add in drives for the PC at the time were in the $500 range. Yes, some of that price difference was margins, but the cost difference between a generic DSP and a relatively high end CPU combined with a relatively high end GPU is huge. The BRD is why the PS3 was losing a ton of money at launch- if they kept the same price point with a DVD drive they would have been making quite a bit of money(you should keep in mind the PS3 in its' cheapest configuration was $499 at launch, the 360 was $299 by comparison).
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:24 AM   #103
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Here's hoping that PS4 graphics will be nearly on par with PCs, though that's highly unlikely...
You played much on the PC lately? While the PC certainly has an edge, I would be enormously let down if the PS4 didn't kick the hell out of what we are getting on the PC lately which is just slightly enhanced versions of the games that are already running on the 360 and PS3.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:45 AM   #104
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What a faster PS4 will do is ensure that the baseline for console ports will be higher. That will be good for PC gamers as many more games will come with significantly more modern graphics.

But rivalling a PC level of performance it wont, it'll just be that much closer.
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:56 AM   #105
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If it's true that the PS4 has an x86 CPU, is it more likely that we will get less half-assed ports on the PC?
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Old 01-03-2013, 11:58 AM   #106
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If it's true that the PS4 has an x86 CPU, is it more likely that we will get less half-assed ports on the PC?
Perhaps. The architectures won't be so dissimilar as they were this gen, so any CPU optimization applied to the PS4 (if it uses an AMD CPU as expected) will also apply to our home computers too. But I don't know that it will help things outside of that architecture.

Maybe it will help games run better on AMDs module configurations.

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Old 01-03-2013, 02:58 PM   #107
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What a faster PS4 will do is ensure that the baseline for console ports will be higher. That will be good for PC gamers as many more games will come with significantly more modern graphics.

But rivalling a PC level of performance it wont, it'll just be that much closer.
Is faster what we really need for that? At least from what I can recall, my biggest problem with console ports is typically texture-related. The textures that we get appear to be no different or only slightly better than the console version, and they look terrible at high resolutions. We need textures designed for use at 1080p+ that look acceptable when viewed close up. Consoles tend to get away with a lot because you usually sit 5 feet or more away from a TV.

Although, a faster console may allow developers to include those fancy features that PC gamers take for granted such as anti-aliasing or anisotropic filtering. Although, yet again, I haven't had as much of a problem with the lack thereof because I sit so far away. It reminds me of the time I played Darksiders on my PS3 that's hooked up to my computer monitor. It looked terrible. I've played Darksiders on my 360 prior to that, and I don't recall it looking bad, and I've also played it on my PC on the same monitor.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:09 PM   #108
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But rivalling a PC level of performance it wont, it'll just be that much closer.
Developers can get a lot more out of a very specific hardware config than they ever can hope out of a million possible combinations.
If you really look at the PS3 or 360's hardware specs, it would seem impossible 7 years ago that games like Uncharted 3, Crysis..etc, look as good as they do currently.
seriously, Gods of War 3 or Uncharted 3on 256mb's of video ram. Not only could that games run at 1080p on a PS4, but do far more and as it is, they're beautiful games by comparison to many common PC titles.

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IThe textures that we get appear to be no different or only slightly better than the console version, and they look terrible at high resolutions. We need textures designed for use at 1080p+ that look acceptable when viewed close up. Consoles tend to get away with a lot because you usually sit 5 feet or more away from a TV.
A game like Witcher 2 is likely about as good as can be reasonably made for PC only because there are so many configurations and few actually have a high end graphics card. Even a modded Skyrim with quality textures and ENB post effects really pushes a GTX 680 and the textures really are not all super that or nothing. Design specifcally for PC would help, but little more than current PC exclusives.
No what we really need is better A.I. and fully destructable, open world environments in more games than just 1 or 2 here and there. A.I. has such little investment these days...Even Turok 2 had enemies that can hear, see and run for cover.
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Old 01-03-2013, 10:43 PM   #109
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You played much on the PC lately? While the PC certainly has an edge, I would be enormously let down if the PS4 didn't kick the hell out of what we are getting on the PC lately which is just slightly enhanced versions of the games that are already running on the 360 and PS3.
Eh??? You mean I can play in real time 1080p, Metro 2033 with all the options including AA? Oh wait, no you meant only games that are ports to begin with.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:44 AM   #110
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Eh??? You mean I can play in real time 1080p, Metro 2033 with all the options including AA? Oh wait, no you meant only games that are ports to begin with.
No, I meant explicitly what I said. If you think Metro 2033 is far ahead of the top console games, well I guess I'll see about getting you some crayons, a helmet and a bucket

If you want to pull out a PC game that looks a lot better then what the consoles can do use Crysis 3, hell even BF3 roflstomps Metro's visuals even though it is a port.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:45 AM   #111
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No, it was the same idea. The Nintendo 64 was the same basic naming idea; use the name of the company itself as the name of the console. That was the power of the Nintendo name. They just added '64' on the end this time to play up the marketing hype of the "bit wars" over their 32-bit competition.

The N64 was also largely a disappointment compared to the PSX, and "GameCube" was born.
N64 a Disapointment, Uhh? Zelda ocarina of time? Which held on to the title for 6 years straight of best game on over 5 different video game magazines? Oh yeah big dissapointment, right? Ha ha haa, how about mario an pokemon who grossed highest selling games ever both doubleing final fantasy's franchise which arnt nessasarly owned by Sony, its a free lancer who was birthed onto the Nes, real crappy assets to the "Big N" eh?

Sony as a company that manufactures electronics trumps nintendo
(they dont really market electronics), Sony as a company comparing "games" to Nintendo "gets" trumped by the big N... plain and simple. Look at the stats bud, Sony aint never getting another Ps2, thats where mp3's like I- pods stole its thunder in exploiting it was a gimmick, more people was using it for a sound system decor, instead of games.

Just like Ps move, a copy of motion sensoring showed no aiding to different artistic value, it dident blend with counter reality graphics...proving game play an story is superior to graphics in the long hall...it wouldent matter anyway, sony in terms of power has only what Pc power shits out...its down graded to 6 year ago tech of its current form of Pc day one graphics. So in terms all Sony has left is its 3rd party games. Which with the now multi tasking Wii u, mostly all 3rd partys are shifting to the big N has the closest to Pc tech in it of this modern year, unless sony likes to keep digging in there pockets of there electronics to keep alive there games marketing
(because 3ds is eating alive the vita, like a cold blooded zombie) then Ps4 better be heroin-level-mind-blowing or they'll be another sega bankrupt...because just mario and pokemon frachise of each pulling out sales of over 250 million copies, can keep alive Nintendo for the next year alone.

I'm a huge Playstation fan too, an hopeing for the best for the Ps4, but by statistics it aint looking to good for counsles an hand helds for sony...they are on more of a smart phone level game competitor, more than they are with nintendo...in terms of "Games", an basically smartphone games are literally 99cents an "Free"...whaw man.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:36 AM   #112
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N64 a Disapointment, Uhh? Zelda ocarina of time? Which held on to the title for 6 years straight of best game on over 5 different video game magazines? Oh yeah big dissapointment, right? Ha ha haa, how about mario an pokemon who grossed highest selling games ever both doubleing final fantasy's franchise which arnt nessasarly owned by Sony, its a free lancer who was birthed onto the Nes, real crappy assets to the "Big N" eh?
Sony as a company that manufactures electronics trumps nintendo
(they dont really market electronics), Sony as a company comparing "games" to Nintendo "gets" trumped by the big N... plain and simple. Look at the stats bud, Sony aint never getting another Ps2, thats where mp3's like I- pods stole its thunder in exploiting it was a gimmick, more people was using it for a sound system decor, instead of games.
You need to learn and understand context.

We are talking purely about sales, marketing, and business decisions, not subjective library strength or game comparisons. Try and keep up.
What you're debating, we are not.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:14 PM   #113
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You need to learn and understand context.

We are talking purely about sales, marketing, and business decisions, not subjective library strength or game comparisons. Try and keep up.
What you're debating, we are not.
Oh, my bad...just was scanning threw...an got the wrong Idea. Well, as for Ps4 I wish them the best, reguardless of what price-ing they dish it out with I'd still get one (because of senimental reasons) just dont think they have enough 1st party games anymore to be mind blowing, since Nintendo is now on the 3rd party bandwagon even more now.

As for graphics I still of course love the idea of evolving graphics, but I'm more set on story at this point, because I'd rather play a decent game (because no game can has poorer graphics in this tech era that would be deemed pathetic) than buying a game soley for its graphics an getting a head-ach trying to figure out exactly whats being inhanced...its like 3-d movies now days, if its not as colorful as avatar, why would I want to more focus on a poping out chair in a movie than be actually trying to figure out what the plot is about.
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Old 01-04-2013, 06:56 PM   #114
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You need to learn and understand context.

We are talking purely about sales, marketing, and business decisions, not subjective library strength or game comparisons. Try and keep up.
What you're debating, we are not.
And this is what is wrong with gaming today and why modern games suck.

It's not nerds making games for fun anymore, it's suits barking out orders to rush something incomplete to get preorders before the quarterly is due.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:08 PM   #115
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And this is what is wrong with gaming today and why modern games suck.

It's not nerds making games for fun anymore, it's suits barking out orders to rush something incomplete to get preorders before the quarterly is due.
I havent been keeping up with game informers for years already, nor have I seen polls of which made it to the top, jeez havent even bought a game in a while, but by hear say, I dont think call of duty type should deserve a medal either...an all I hear is call of duty...call of duty...call of duty, its a first person shooter a game based on reality...not quite the imginative mind blower, so I guess it is taken a different approach on modern games, if call of duty is mind blowing to every one...then yeah modern games suck.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:49 PM   #116
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And this is what is wrong with gaming today and why modern games suck.

It's not nerds making games for fun anymore, it's suits barking out orders to rush something incomplete to get preorders before the quarterly is due.
Tell me honestly: If you played Fallout 3, didn't you like that game?
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:10 PM   #117
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And this is what is wrong with gaming today and why modern games suck.

It's not nerds making games for fun anymore, it's suits barking out orders to rush something incomplete to get preorders before the quarterly is due.
And this is why Indy games are doing so well right now. They are cheaper, and you can see the love put into them, and while maybe not always original, they aren't always the same ol same ol.

People try to push it off as nostagia, but a great game 20 years ago with the same graphics we have today, would still be considered a great game today. There's not alot of them made these days I think will hold up in 20 years.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:20 PM   #118
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And this is why Indy games are doing so well right now. They are cheaper, and you can see the love put into them, and while maybe not always original, they aren't always the same ol same ol.

People try to push it off as nostagia, but a great game 20 years ago with the same graphics we have today, would still be considered a great game today. There's not alot of them made these days I think will hold up in 20 years.
Not really, graphics has to have a as they say growing process to be apreciated in the first place. an for great game then an now type, that is hardly the truth, artistic appreciation is soley upoun individuals, if not, why hasent games like final fantasy 7 have been remade in Hd an or now days graphical implimations? Because the value of its art impliments in different ways to the mind, if final fantasy 7 came out back then with now days graphics it wouldent have had the same effect, I havent heard of any true Ff7 fan disagree that they prefered blocky white cloud over asian cloud, or dident like the vocie diologue.

Somethings are ment better to have the imagination fill in the gaps. It impacts you better...ergo some like cheat codes some like the challange of beating it them selfs.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:24 PM   #119
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And this is what is wrong with gaming today and why modern games suck.

It's not nerds making games for fun anymore, it's suits barking out orders to rush something incomplete to get preorders before the quarterly is due.
And to think i have been having a blast all year with the games i have. That is just the 81 of them i have on steam from the past year and half. Sad is you
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:23 AM   #120
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And this is what is wrong with gaming today and why modern games suck.

It's not nerds making games for fun anymore, it's suits barking out orders to rush something incomplete to get preorders before the quarterly is due.
It's my theory that, based on what I've observed over the industry, there is a greater desire and movement by publishers to try please everyone and to be all things to all people.
No one can specialize in one genre, and be damn good at it. Instead, we either have to slap half-assed components of other games and genres in them, or as is more often the case, just dumb-down the main concept so it's accessible (and therefore, will lure in customers) to people that usually don't care about that genre.

I think it's absolutely to be expected as the industry has exploded in popularity at a staggering rate, and the hunt is on for whatever game can suck in the largest swath of consumers as possible.

However, of course, the enthusiast and fans of those once-great genres usually suffer in the end.

That is, unless your genre of choice happens to be "Modern day-to-slightly-futuristic arcadey military shooter with lots of set pieces and scripted events and varying shades of brown and grey". Then...then you're in heaven with 72 virgins.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:40 AM   #121
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The current Indie game renaissance does help alleviate the problems of suits pushing orders. But I think even with big budget games there are just as many hits as before. Pick any given 5 year period in history (ex. 1993-1997) and compare it to 2008-2012. I think the classics from any previous 5 year period are as numerous at the eventual classics in the current. I think overall 2012 was a weak year, but if anything that's because the current console generation has gone on so long. That's just an argument for new consoles. 2011 was amazing.

We just tend to forget about all the HORRIBLE (really, you want to throw up playing them) shovelware on the NES. We mostly remember the timeless classics a la Mario 3 and Mega Man 2, but just watch Angry Video Game Nerd and you'll understand what the bulk of the NES lineup truly was (trash). And what about the mediocre 2D platformers that came out every week on the Genesis and SNES, or the unremarkable early 3D efforts in the PSX era that looked and played bad from the day they launched?

We just only remember the classics. I have no doubt that we have as many classics from this generation as from any. And better graphics only helps us get more classics. Indie game developers are still putting out basically 8 and 16-bit games in the current gen, and I don't see why this trend cannot continue on PS4. But if the AAA developers want to push a system to its limits then do it. Uncharted 2 and Killzone 2 wouldn't be possible or would be unremarkable if they were on a previous Gen console. Don't hate new tech.
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Old 01-06-2013, 01:58 PM   #122
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Pick any given 5 year period in history (ex. 1993-1997) and compare it to 2008-2012.
I actually started a post doing this the other day using the NES time period and it got stupid huge- I think the classics from that era probably outnumber the potential classics from this era in the 10:1 range.

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We just tend to forget about all the HORRIBLE (really, you want to throw up playing them) shovelware on the NES.
If we ignore the Wii we could say that the worst games from this generation are *HUGE* improvements over the worst games from the earlier days, but that is also a big reason why I think we don't get nearly as many classics. The games that we get today are largely formulaic, and that isn't a bad thing when you are looking to have a reasonable base line of quality. Developers overwhelmingly try and focus on minor iteration of gameplay mechanics that they know work. It raises the floor significantly, but also significantly lowers the ceiling.

Based on everything I have seen it is looking like The Walking Dead is going to end up with the most Game of the Year awards this year, and from what I can see that is simply due to it not being a rehash. Their approach was something different, but quite frankly it was clunky and awkward(yes, I am speaking in the context of adventure games). A developer took a chance, and it paid off rather well for them. If we get more of that, we will get both more crap, and more classics.
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Old 01-06-2013, 03:10 PM   #123
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Their approach was something different, but quite frankly it was clunky and awkward(yes, I am speaking in the context of adventure games). A developer took a chance, and it paid off rather well for them. If we get more of that, we will get both more crap, and more classics.
Agreed. It was decent, but not fantastic. I played on iOS and found it clunky at times, a couple times I was reloading rooms back and forth and I absolutely hate that. Technologically it's nothing that couldn't have been done 15 years ago or more.
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Old 01-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #124
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No, I meant explicitly what I said. If you think Metro 2033 is far ahead of the top console games, well I guess I'll see about getting you some crayons, a helmet and a bucket

If you want to pull out a PC game that looks a lot better then what the consoles can do use Crysis 3, hell even BF3 roflstomps Metro's visuals even though it is a port.
Says someone who doesn't know what shadow and atmospheric details like smoke and reflections can do. Consoles don't even do tessellation, so...no they won't ever be as good looking as a game built from the ground up as a PC title.
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Old 01-07-2013, 01:10 PM   #125
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Says someone who doesn't know what shadow and atmospheric details like smoke and reflections can do. Consoles don't even do tessellation, so...no they won't ever be as good looking as a game built from the ground up as a PC title.
The 360 and AMD's HD2000-HD4000 GPUs have a dedicated tessellation unit. Not DX11's tessellation, which I know you meant, but it's still tessellation
Isn't ATI's old Truform some kind of tessellation as well?
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