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Old 01-03-2013, 12:51 AM   #1
lopri
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Default Yet another fail by MS (rant)

So I had a Skydrive login which was one of my gmail accounts. That login wasn't originally for Skydrive, but Games for Windows Live account (which sometimes is called XBOX Live account depending on where I am). MS automatically makes it for other MS services logins such as Live.com and Skydrive.com.

Then one day I was prompted (or seduced by banner or something) to get a brand new Outlook.com account. I paid a visit to Outlook.com and it looked cool, so I thought why not. So I switched the login for MS Service (Skydrive, Outlook.com, etc.) by creating an @outlook.com account.

MS was quick to replace my old login with the brand new Outlook.com account. I thought everything is nice and dandy.. until yesterday when I decided to play a game (Street Fighter 4) that I hadn't touched for a while.

The thing is, I had like $15 credit and some DLC for games in my old login for Games for Windows Live account. Apparently those were not carried over when I deleted my old login and replaced it with a new Outlook.com account. When I type in my old GFWL login, it says the account does not exist. When I type in the new login, it lets me in but the credit and DLC are gone.

Surprised, I went back to Live.com, Outlook.com, and Skydrive.com to change the login back to my previous one (the gmail account). It says I can't do that. Furthermore, I learned that I could not reinstall the games of which serial numbers were tied to the login.

Should I call MS about it? Maybe if I am in a mood. The truth is, this isn't the first time things like this happened to me. It happened with Zune.com years ago when I bought that stupid thing and the thing went belly up. I was never able to recover my money back after several phone calls. It wasn't a lot and likewise not worth any more hassle. But that incident left a bad taste in my mouth.

This time, I have had enough. Congrats to MS for fooling me twice.

/rant
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:46 AM   #2
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I mean, try entering a local Gamestop or a Bestbuy and walking away with two boxed GFWL titles and an XBox Live gift card without paying. If you happen to run into a "Law & Order" type of citizen (be that a manager or a cashier, maybe even an onlooker who calls 911), I guarantee you that you will go to a jail. You may be released on bail if you've got the means, but if you can't afford it and/or a lawyer, years of jail time is what you're going to get.

But a corporation like MS can get away with this kind of crime, over and over again, against a large population of people and no one goes to jail. Little people can't do much about it because the burden of taking a [legal] action is too big to undertake. I am also willing to bet that even if you take it to the court of law the odds of seeing a justice in today's legal climate (which is heavily tilted in favor of corporations, v. consumers) is approximately zero.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:34 AM   #3
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You signed up for the abuse. If you don't own the software or the hardware, you don't own anything. Get on their asses and see if you can get it straightened out, and be careful about using network services, and proprietary software going forward.

Btw, your Skydrive account... They can look in your files, take them, then delete your account without any recourse by you. I bet you didn't sign up for that.
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Old 01-03-2013, 08:53 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lopri View Post
Should I call MS about it?
Yes. That shouldn't be happening. Everything is supposed to get ported.

On a side note, I'm really not sure what this has to do with OSes. But seeing as how I don't know where else to put this thread, I suppose it can stay.
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lopri View Post
I mean, try entering a local Gamestop or a Bestbuy and walking away with two boxed GFWL titles and an XBox Live gift card without paying. If you happen to run into a "Law & Order" type of citizen (be that a manager or a cashier, maybe even an onlooker who calls 911), I guarantee you that you will go to a jail. You may be released on bail if you've got the means, but if you can't afford it and/or a lawyer, years of jail time is what you're going to get.

But a corporation like MS can get away with this kind of crime, over and over again, against a large population of people and no one goes to jail. Little people can't do much about it because the burden of taking a [legal] action is too big to undertake. I am also willing to bet that even if you take it to the court of law the odds of seeing a justice in today's legal climate (which is heavily tilted in favor of corporations, v. consumers) is approximately zero.
I don't believe it's a crime because, as lxskllr alludes, you didn't actually own any of that. You had licenses to use the software which included clauses that let MS revoke your rights at pretty much any time they please. MS would most likely fix it if you called and they could find proof of the old account, but I don't believe they have any legal obligation to do so.
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Old 01-04-2013, 05:19 AM   #6
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@lxskllr: You're completely correct. (Except that I am not sure I will call MS this time) And I do not have any illusion on my privacy in these days and nights. Ironically that was one of the ideas behind switching the login - I wanted to separate my Google accounts from my MS accounts. Of course that isn't much in the grand scheme of things, but at least it's one more hop for anyone who wants to peek at my stuff, so I thought it's an OK practice.

At the basic level, my fault lies in trusting MS' ability to act/perform to a reasonable expectation. You know, the thing that we rely on every day, i.e. common sense. After all, there is no guarantee whatsoever a crazy driver from the opposite lane will not bump into your car and kill you when you are on the way to wlork. (Is there?) That's the risk that we take every day, unless you could live in a cave or wouldn't mind an Orwellian world.

But your advice is definitely a sound one, and I hope anyone who reads this thread to take your advice to heart.

@VIRGE: I know, I wasn't sure whether it has to go software section, game secion, or OS section. If you feel there is a better place for this topic, please move the thread as necessary. To be frank, I did not really want to right this rant. It just doesn't do me any good. I have more pressing needs in my life than dealing with this kind of BS. And my post comes off as stupid and whiny.

But I decided to take time to write anyway, hoping to bring awareness to others. If just one or two persons learns something from my mistake, that will make me happy.

@Nothingman: You're right, of course. I was using the term "crime" in a somewhat loose manner, or at a higher level of generality. However, while what you say is true perhaps 90+% of the cases, I'd say that it's largely due to huge disparity in power/wealth between individuals and these corporations.

There is no "right to contract" in the Constitutional doctrine today. And for good reasons. (e.g. history of slavery, the Great Depression) When each side is similar in power, our politically-sensitive courts do not take a piece of paper at its face value and enforce it without giving it a second look. That's why Anti-trust lawsuits usually involve juries. And I doubt you (not you) can have someone who's madly in love with you now sign on a pre-nuptial which is just short of slavery contract and expect the court to enforce it later. The court will look into the substance of such contracts beneath the inked letters.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lopri View Post
It happened with Zune.com years ago when I bought that stupid thing and the thing went belly up. I was never able to recover my money back after several phone calls. It wasn't a lot and likewise not worth any more hassle. But that incident left a bad taste in my mouth.

This time, I have had enough. Congrats to MS for fooling me twice.

/rant
I don't understand. You bought a device that worked perfectly fine, what does the fact they stopped selling them to other people matter? I also have a Zune HD w/ Zune Pass and it still works great...why would you expect your money back?
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Old 01-05-2013, 02:49 PM   #8
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That someone so MS hostile (as evidenced by so many rants, and bumping of those rants when they die) would buy a Zune (when only 4 people did) stretches even the highest levels of credulity to the breaking point.

Last edited by Ferzerp; 01-05-2013 at 02:52 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Deeko View Post
I don't understand. You bought a device that worked perfectly fine, what does the fact they stopped selling them to other people matter? I also have a Zune HD w/ Zune Pass and it still works great...why would you expect your money back?
I'm guessing he means for the music that he can't transfer the license, not the device itself.
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Old 01-06-2013, 04:33 PM   #10
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Just curious: has the OP tried simply calling MS and requesting their credit be refunded?

I can understand the frustration, but I'd reserve all the rest of the accusations until I'd talked to them and actually been told straight up "Nope, we absolutely can't refund your money, you're SOL, sorry."
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Old 01-08-2013, 08:30 PM   #11
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How'd you lose money on Zune? I'm still using my Zune HD, no money lost...
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