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Old 12-31-2012, 02:30 AM   #76
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I dont. I just dont want the "guns dont kill" chant packed in.

So explain to me why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations?
Since you aren't speaking German or Russian (or a lampshade), perhaps you could consider a little less demanding to know why the US is so different from all the other industrialized nations and a little more thanking G-d that it is so. Occasionally in this world, even those with legalized pot and hookers need someone able to get up on their hind legs and stand up to evil on their behalf, whether on a retail or wholesale level. Get out of Copenhagen and you might even find some Danes that understand this point and remember us fondly.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:31 AM   #77
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A lot of ways, but there are two of particular importance with respect to this discussion.

First, our history and traditions are largely based on notions of independence, freedom and individualism. We were founded as the result of a revolution against a monarch. In general, we have a more difficult time with trusting government and with accepting limits and restrictions on individual liberty than do other countries.

Second, our laws are based on the Constitution, which guarantees specific rights. We cannot, either legally or morally, simply ignore the dictates of that document.
Very well said.
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Old 12-31-2012, 02:35 AM   #78
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In terms of the constitution. When was it last revised? In Denmark we first got our consitution in 1864. But its been revised several times to forfill the need in an ever modern society. Our current one is from 1953 and might need to be revised in the near future again.

In terms of the rebelillion, alot of other countries had the same event. Yet I can only recall one other republic with the same law.

So it must be something else, demographics? The negative feedback cyclus?
the 27th amendment to it was made in 1992...
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:09 AM   #79
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Then answer the question, why would you as a citizen of the Kingdom of Denmark care about the gun laws and the 2nd Amendment in the United States?
And in the same vein, why would you, as a citizen of the US, care what someone in Denmark thinks?

It's called discussion.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:30 AM   #80
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Still ignoring the "well-regulated militia" part, huh?
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That said, there is really only one religion they will go after: Christianity. maybe one day they'll get over their bigotry.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:02 AM   #81
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Easy, we know that guns don't kill people without a human operator. I know, does not seem logical that an inert chuck of metal and plastic cannot do anything on its own, but trust me, it cannot.

Since you now understand that a gun is not the problem, but rather a human, we can move onward.

The US is filled with very independent people. We are trained from birth to distrust our government and our fellow man. This is contrasted to many nations where people are trained from birth to cow-tow to their government and to believe their government is in the right. In the nations where the people are trained to be subservient, they recoil from the very thought of having a gun, and cannot fathom why anyone would want one to defend themselves - the government can do it for them after all! An "enlightened" nation with such a government might even ban lock blade knives because the only reason they exist (says this theoretical government) is to murder people and not actually protect your fingers when using the blade...

That is the big difference. The US was founded on rebellion and independence of the individual. As such, guns are a part of our society.

The problem comes when the independence goes to far and the individual decides that the only thing which matters is their own person gain, even if it means the death of other people for no other reason. That is what most of the inner cities of the larger cities have become in the US. That is why you see a higher murder rate with guns.
You can make the same argument about RPGs, but I doubt you'll find much support for everyone having a rocket launcher behind their front door (even from the NRA).

There is obviously a line to draw when it comes to owning killing tools, the question has and will always be where to draw that line. The argument you are making here is about whether a line should even be drawn, which is just a silly argument IMO and actually hurts your position as it opens you up to such obvious criticism.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:37 AM   #82
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And in the same vein, why would you, as a citizen of the US, care what someone in Denmark thinks?

It's called discussion.
We don't care what you or any other non US citizen has to say as you have no dog in the hunt. Discuss it all you want but don't get butthurt when you're told you have no say in matter.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:39 AM   #83
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While i agree with your OP topic, getting the government to not use the Constitution as toilet paper is a while nother ball game. It may as well not even exist anymore the way the government ignores it in its current form. Sad.
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:58 AM   #84
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We don't care what you or any other non US citizen has to say as you have no dog in the hunt. Discuss it all you want but don't get butthurt when you're told you have no say in matter.
And we civilised people outside the US couldn't give a toss whether some emo US twat on an Internet forum values our input or not.

This is a public, international discussion board. If you want to listen to an echo chamber, I suggest you arrange a meeting down at your local town hall.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:30 AM   #85
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And we civilised people outside the US couldn't give a toss whether some emo US twat on an Internet forum values our input or not.

This is a public, international discussion board. If you want to listen to an echo chamber, I suggest you arrange a meeting down at your local town hall.

LMAO!!!! Tell ya what, send a letter to your Congressman and Senators to let them know how you feel about gun control. Oh, that's right you don't have either.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:39 AM   #86
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LMAO!!!! Tell ya what, send a letter to your Congressman and Senators to let them know how you feel about gun control. Oh, that's right you don't have either.
What a complete non-sequitar.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:49 AM   #87
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While i agree with your OP topic, getting the government to not use the Constitution as toilet paper is a while nother ball game. It may as well not even exist anymore the way the government ignores it in its current form. Sad.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:06 AM   #88
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What a complete non-sequitar.
Your input on an "International" forum means nothing in the real discussion of gun control in the US but don't let that stop you from blathering on about it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:15 AM   #89
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Your input on an "International" forum means nothing in the real discussion of gun control in the US but don't let that stop you from blathering on about it.
So you've never, ever discussed something or held an opinion on something that occurs outside of the US?
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:21 AM   #90
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So you've never, ever discussed something or held an opinion on something that occurs outside of the US?
Completely unrelated, the title "diary of a dork" sounds promising. I'll have to check that out
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:24 AM   #91
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Completely unrelated, the title "diary of a dork" sounds promising. I'll have to check that out
Ha ha, please do!

Actually, I unpublished that particular one a month or so back. It wasn't really a book as such, just a collection of humorous emails.

It's not on Amazon any more, but is on the torrents.
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Old 12-31-2012, 09:29 AM   #92
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We don't care what you or any other non US citizen has to say as you have no dog in the hunt.
Please don't presume to speak for everyone.

Not having a "dog in the hunt" sure doesn't stop most Americans from opining about various features and flaws in other countries and cultures. It's fine to think that their opinions matter less, but this is a discussion forum and no passports are required.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:25 AM   #93
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Please don't presume to speak for everyone.

Not having a "dog in the hunt" sure doesn't stop most Americans from opining about various features and flaws in other countries and cultures. It's fine to think that their opinions matter less, but this is a discussion forum and no passports are required.
Londo has very high requirements as to the form and content of speech he will permit. The conservative brain defect is of such a nature that whatever truth it holds to and for whatever reason, that truth and that truth alone is the centripetal force holding the universe together. All the arrogance that the rest of us may react to is nothing but a secondary effect. They can't help feeling they are perfect.
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Old 12-31-2012, 10:30 AM   #94
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If gun rights are about freedom, shouldn't freedom be about more than gun rights? Every time I heard someone talk in very broad general terms about how much they respect and value freedom as a reason they believe in the right to bear arms, I wonder if that person values freedom in other contexts. Because in general, years of paying attention to politics suggest that isn't necessarily the case.

It's very easy to go on and on about freedom (as that article certainly did, get over yourself already, jeez) when it's something you personally like. It's lot harder to live up to your boasting about how much you love freedom when freedom as a principle is the only reason to support something. How many 2nd amendment advocates are such staunch supporters of the 1st, for example? And it's easy to talk about how much you hate government oppression when you dislike the President, but how much overlap do you think existed between 2nd amendment folks and those suggesting various news organizations and Democrats should be tried for treason for daring to disagree with President Bush when he was in charge?

The idea of a well armed citizenry as a way of guaranteeing freedom can certainly be argued. But, IMHO, many of the people making the argument don't have what I would call a tremendous amount of credibility. Depending on the government tyranny involved (say, going after Muslims and "socialists"), I have a hard time imagining the NRA crowd being on the front lines fighting against it.

Maybe this is unfair of me, and maybe I'm wrong about it (and I'm certain there are many exceptions), but my general impression is that the people making the pro-gun arguments are not really the people I'd trust to work against a truly oppressive government if that oppression involved something other than gun rights. And there is nothing wrong with valuing gun rights, but I feel like people should at least be honest about it when that's the primary thing they care about.

I agree with you in that many people who advocate gun rights are negligent when it comes to fulfilling their other obligations as citizens of a democratic society. Gun rights is the last line of defense against tyranny, and even then it is questionable whether it is any longer an effective solution in this day and age when the government does not brutally suppress the populace into submission as before, but instead manipulate them more craftily and subtly by bombarding them with propaganda disguised as news and by employing intellectuals willing to peddle lies for the rich and powerful.

While some many cradle their precious handguns and rifles in the name of democracy, I wonder how many of them actually volunteer for various grassroot movements that fight against corporate interests for our basic rights, try to be a more knowledgeable citizen by reading up on different subjects such as economics and politics, or even simply take the time to vote.

Of course we may not be able to fulfill all of our obligations as responsible citizens due to personal limitations and constraints, but I think it is true that many gun owners do overlook more important issues, such as the ongoing battle between the Obama Administration and social activists in which the current administration wants the power to hold American citizens in military prisons indefinitely without trial as long as they are deemed as a threat to America. Isn't that a much more pressing issue than our gun rights?

Even if you were to argue that we need guns for personal protection, and not necessarily in defense against tyranny, I do believe my argument still holds, since I do not believe that the two issues are totally separated. While there will always be people who turn to a life of crime because they want to make a quick buck or are too lazy, increase in crime in many of our cities over the past decades can be attributed to the exodus of jobs to overseas. Now, this is a problem that can only be alleviated by changing the current system, which is more interested in ensuring the big profit margins of companies and in keeping the underprivileged class under control by building even more prisons and increasing the severity of sentences than in creating jobs with livable salary to make our streets safer. Ultimately, if we want to keep our families safe, we need to take actions to change the system, rather than stockpile handguns and rifles hoping to be able to whip it out first in the case of home invasion.

Having said all that, I do understand how many people see gun rights as an important democratic right, and to be honest I haven't made up my mind on the issue of gun control. However, I do think it is worth mentioning again that many people seem to be so vocal on the issue of gun control because it is a more "enjoyable" right than other "painful" rights, such as staying informed and volunteering for your community and local activist movements.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:11 PM   #95
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Originally Posted by Moonbeam View Post
Londo has very high requirements as to the form and content of speech he will permit. The conservative brain defect is of such a nature that whatever truth it holds to and for whatever reason, that truth and that truth alone is the centripetal force holding the universe together. All the arrogance that the rest of us may react to is nothing but a secondary effect. They can't help feeling they are perfect.
Yet another thread with childish name calling, you must be in your twenties as I know no one in their thirties or forties would act in this manner.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:18 PM   #96
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I agree with you in that many people who advocate gun rights are negligent when it comes to fulfilling their other obligations as citizens of a democratic society. Gun rights is the last line of defense against tyranny, and even then it is questionable whether it is any longer an effective solution in this day and age when the government does not brutally suppress the populace into submission as before, but instead manipulate them more craftily and subtly by bombarding them with propaganda disguised as news and by employing intellectuals willing to peddle lies for the rich and powerful.

While some many cradle their precious handguns and rifles in the name of democracy, I wonder how many of them actually volunteer for various grassroot movements that fight against corporate interests for our basic rights, try to be a more knowledgeable citizen by reading up on different subjects such as economics and politics, or even simply take the time to vote.

Of course we may not be able to fulfill all of our obligations as responsible citizens due to personal limitations and constraints, but I think it is true that many gun owners do overlook more important issues, such as the ongoing battle between the Obama Administration and social activists in which the current administration wants the power to hold American citizens in military prisons indefinitely without trial as long as they are deemed as a threat to America. Isn't that a much more pressing issue than our gun rights?

Even if you were to argue that we need guns for personal protection, and not necessarily in defense against tyranny, I do believe my argument still holds, since I do not believe that the two issues are totally separated. While there will always be people who turn to a life of crime because they want to make a quick buck or are too lazy, increase in crime in many of our cities over the past decades can be attributed to the exodus of jobs to overseas. Now, this is a problem that can only be alleviated by changing the current system, which is more interested in ensuring the big profit margins of companies and in keeping the underprivileged class under control by building even more prisons and increasing the severity of sentences than in creating jobs with livable salary to make our streets safer. Ultimately, if we want to keep our families safe, we need to take actions to change the system, rather than stockpile handguns and rifles hoping to be able to whip it out first in the case of home invasion.

Having said all that, I do understand how many people see gun rights as an important democratic right, and to be honest I haven't made up my mind on the issue of gun control. However, I do think it is worth mentioning again that many people seem to be so vocal on the issue of gun control because it is a more "enjoyable" right than other "painful" rights, such as staying informed and volunteering for your community and local activist movements.
Very well-written.
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Old 12-31-2012, 04:29 PM   #97
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Answer the question.

Is Liberty under fire not?



Wow how lame.

Join date of Sept 2011 eh?

Are you 10?

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Old 12-31-2012, 05:59 PM   #98
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All you have to do is read this piece by a Georgetown constitutional law professor to see what the lefties want.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/31/op...=opinion&_r=1&

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AS the nation teeters at the edge of fiscal chaos, observers are reaching the conclusion that the American system of government is broken. But almost no one blames the culprit: our insistence on obedience to the Constitution, with all its archaic, idiosyncratic and downright evil provisions.
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If even this change is impossible, perhaps the dream of a country ruled by “We the people” is impossibly utopian. If so, we have to give up on the claim that we are a self-governing people who can settle our disagreements through mature and tolerant debate. But before abandoning our heritage of self-government, we ought to try extricating ourselves from constitutional bondage so that we can give real freedom a chance.
A fucking constitutional law professor.
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Old 12-31-2012, 06:10 PM   #99
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Dont you dare touch that sacred cow!
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Old 12-31-2012, 07:47 PM   #100
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Dont you dare touch that sacred cow!
Thank you for proving my point Moosie.
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