Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > CPUs and Overclocking

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-29-2012, 10:17 PM   #101
Abwx
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 4,572
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelUser2000 View Post
Bzzzt... wrong answer.

Try again, looking back on what I said. I feel based on your response it won't be so obvious to you.
I wasnt particularly adressing your guesses...


Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelUser2000 View Post
Also, the dual core ULV Ivy Bridge is nearly 4 times faster than Brazos in multi-threaded application.
Perhaps , but Brazos is a 40nm 2C while IB has HT ,
what about the comparison with a 4C Kabini that is
supposed to have 25% better ST perfs than Brazos ?.

IB 2C/4T may still be 40-50% faster in MT but this wont be
a decisive advantage once price/perf ratio is introduced
in the equation.
Abwx is online now  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:22 PM   #102
pablo87
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inf64 View Post
Or you can get HyperTX3 for 20$ on newegg? It's always some reason not to buy AMD with you... Sure,why not buy a WC setup to OC lowly Athlon that costs 65 euros? Wait it's unlocked,let's try LN2?

PS In the link I provided it's competitive versus OCed i3 3220,not stock. To OC i3 you need a better mobo that allows you to use Turbo multipliers,to OC 750K you don't.
Thanks for the info. Btw, where can this part be purchased, what is the price point? Are these harvested parts or native GPU less Trinity's?

I went to newegg.com and nothing.
pablo87 is offline  
Old 12-29-2012, 10:26 PM   #103
pablo87
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 303
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ShintaiDK View Post
"Fjernlager" means remote warehouse. And since its an internet shop its the prefered method. They own the remote warehouse.

So its in stock and you would get it next day with the parcel service. (Or have it delivered for pickup in one of the "shops".

The "shops" are selvservice shops thats basicly nothing but a PC Kiosk for ordering from the remote warehouse.
http://www.proshop.dk/Om-Proshop/Om-butikken.htm



The warehouse is Proshops own.
http://www.logimatic.dk/media/Case_Proshop_dk.pdf
Thanks, well Denmark is such a small country and so efficient I can believe that its next day.

Unfortunately I'm in the US and usually buy from newegg and they do not show this part being available...maybe the ball got dropped during the layoffs?
pablo87 is offline  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:40 PM   #104
SiliconWars
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelUser2000 View Post
Also, the dual core ULV Ivy Bridge is nearly 4 times faster than Brazos in multi-threaded application.
So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does). Add a bit more for IPC gain - Let's say it's a 2 GHz quad core then?

I guess the ULV ivy bridge is going to be some 60-70% faster in multithreading while getting thrashed in gaming. Not that it matters, because there is no way intel will make or sell ULV's in the tens of millions of units, unlike Kabini which will surely go on to sell 30+ million in it's first year.

Find another champion - your ULV isn't it and it will never be in the same class. Think Atom, that's your lot just like it was with Brazos and it is the ONLY chip intel can properly go head to head with against Kabini.

Last edited by SiliconWars; 12-29-2012 at 11:43 PM.
SiliconWars is offline  
Old 12-29-2012, 11:53 PM   #105
Haserath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyefinity View Post
So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does). Add a bit more for IPC gain - Let's say it's a 2 GHz quad core then?

I guess the ULV ivy bridge is going to be some 60-70% faster in multithreading while getting thrashed in gaming. Not that it matters, because there is no way intel will make or sell ULV's in the tens of millions of units, unlike Kabini which will surely go on to sell 30+ million in it's first year.

Find another champion - your ULV isn't it and it will never be in the same class. Think Atom, that's your lot just like it was with Brazos and it is the ONLY chip intel can properly go head to head with against Kabini.
It will be going up against ULV Haswell. Which boosts that back up to about 2x with 4 threads and more with less.

Atom is going to be phone only soon. That's the only place Intel would have a difficult time getting core into.

AMD can't compete on power efficiency with core, but they can try the cheap solution with Kabini's platform. Only thanks to Intel being smart about pricing.
Haserath is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:16 AM   #106
SiliconWars
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,348
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haserath View Post
It will be going up against ULV Haswell. Which boosts that back up to about 2x with 4 threads and more with less.
No it won't. Intel will never sell an ULV chip at such a low price because it will destroy their whole pricing structure. They could have dropped prices on the SB ULV's but didn't, instead the price of Atom cratered quarter after quarter.
SiliconWars is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:30 AM   #107
zlatan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by NTMBK View Post
You're mistaken, I'm afraid.

The 2nd Gen Low Power APU is Kabini, 1st Gen SoC is Temash.
Kabini is a SoC. I have a devplatform and it's a one chip solution. I can't tell the specification, but the performance/watt is shocking. The iGPU is amazingly fast.
zlatan is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:33 AM   #108
dbcoopernz
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 52
Default

Shockingly good, I assume you mean?
dbcoopernz is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:39 AM   #109
Haserath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyefinity View Post
No it won't. Intel will never sell an ULV chip at such a low price because it will destroy their whole pricing structure. They could have dropped prices on the SB ULV's but didn't, instead the price of Atom cratered quarter after quarter.
TDP wise
Haserath is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:51 AM   #110
itsmydamnation
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 614
Default

I have to agree intel ULV chips are the pick of the crop in terms of leakage from the other X0 million SB/IB/HW chips they sell. They aren't going to sell them cheap and intel wont have any problems sell them at way higher prices so they wont.

It's funny in away jaguar is the perfect chip for amd at the moment, consider:

that bobcats "IPC" for a single thread is about 75% per clock of bulldozer, give a conservative 10% ( which is extremely conservative IMHO) and give it a max base clock of 2ghz. While its not going to win an speed contests, what you will get is a processor capable of handling the very vest majority of laptop/HTPC/budget market/emerging markets. the biggest problem with bobcat based laptops is that it was mainly only found in budget devices, jaguar based should meet the requirements for "standard" laptops especially if Turbo is allowed to full TDP.

That chip will likely have better margins then the current SOI based APU's with there current pricing. We will have to see how far the new Atom will scale but with Haswell going down to 10 watts i think intel have made their atom intentions clear.


Quote:
Kabini is a SoC. I have a devplatform and it's a one chip solution. I can't tell the specification, but the performance/watt is shocking. The iGPU is amazingly fast.
if you really do have one (seems a few people say they do) then its unlikely to be final silicon given launch isn't until Q2 next year.

Last edited by itsmydamnation; 12-30-2012 at 04:54 AM.
itsmydamnation is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:02 AM   #111
zlatan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 245
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbcoopernz View Post
Shockingly good, I assume you mean?
Yes, I mean shockingly good.

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmydamnation View Post
if you really do have one (seems a few people say they do) then its unlikely to be final silicon given launch isn't until Q2 next year.
I don't exactly know which will be the final revision. This is just a test hardware, so I don't care about it.
zlatan is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:12 AM   #112
itsmydamnation
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 614
Default

can i ask what kind of work you do? or product you work on
itsmydamnation is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 06:55 AM   #113
NTMBK
Diamond Member
 
NTMBK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4,440
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmydamnation View Post
can i ask what kind of work you do? or product you work on
He seems to have a lot of knowledge about graphics APIs and tech from his posting history, so I'm going to guess some sort of game developer.

@zlatan I don't suppose you fancy running some benchmarks do you?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximilian View Post
I like my VRMs how I like my hookers, hot and Taiwanese.
NTMBK is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 07:25 AM   #114
inf64
Platinum Member
 
inf64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,050
Default

If he can't tell the specifications he can't run benchmarks either . But good info nonetheless
__________________
ShintaiDK:"There will be no APU in PS4 and Xbox720."
ShintaiDK:"No quadchannel either.[in Kaveri]"
CHADBOGA:"Because he[OBR] is a great man."
inf64 is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 11:14 AM   #115
inf64
Platinum Member
 
inf64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,050
Default

New info on Richland(6000 series) from AMD's official APU product spec sheet .
We can see that AMD mentions 6000 series in PDF document for the 1st time:
Quote:
• Power Management
• Multiple low-power states
• AMD PowerNow!™ technology
• System Management Mode (SMM)
• ACPI-compliant, including support for processor performance states (P-states)
• Supports processor power states C0, C1, C1E, C6, and CC6
• Supports sleep states2 including S0, S3, S4, and S5
2 Model 6000 series processors support IOIC with optimized S3 and S4 resume.
Quote:
• Electrical Interfaces
• DDR3 SDRAM: Compliant with JEDEC DDR3 1.5V, LV-DDR3 1.35V, and UL-DDR3 1.25V SDRAM
specifications3
3 UL-DDR3 1.25V SDRAM is available on selected Model 6000 series processors.
Quote:
Socket FM2 package
• Two 64-bit DDR3 SDRAM controllers operating at frequencies up to 18664 MT/s (933 MHz) on Model 5000
series processors, and up to 21335 MT/s (1066 MHz) on selected Model 6000 series processors
4 On Model 5000 series processors, 1866 MT/s is available when there is either a single dual-rank, or two
single-rank 1866 MT/s unbuffered DIMMs present per memory channel.
5 On selected Model 6000 series processors, 2133 MT/s is available when there is a single 2133 MT/s
unbuffered DIMM present per memory channel.
We still have no idea what will differentiate 6000 series from 5000 series if they carry the same (x86) core inside. If Richland was indeed done on 28nm node then it would certainly warrant a 6000 model name as it will have some clock increase (~10% is possible along with maybe 3-5% "ipc" increase). GPU part is also a mystery . Is it GCN or still VLIW4? If we knew the node it was being made on it would have made some of these questions easier to answer .
__________________
ShintaiDK:"There will be no APU in PS4 and Xbox720."
ShintaiDK:"No quadchannel either.[in Kaveri]"
CHADBOGA:"Because he[OBR] is a great man."

Last edited by inf64; 12-30-2012 at 11:18 AM.
inf64 is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 12:44 PM   #116
Hans de Vries
Member
 
Hans de Vries's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 53
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Computer Bottleneck View Post
Welcome to the forum!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtenRa View Post
Welcome to the forum Hans, your expertise will be really appreciated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
Welcome to the forums Hans de Vries
Thanks for the welcome guys. My first post took a while
Hans de Vries is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #117
Idontcare
Administrator
Elite Member
 
Idontcare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: 台北市
Posts: 20,431
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inf64 View Post
If he can't tell the specifications he can't run benchmarks either . But good info nonetheless
And to be frank, I wouldn't want him to either.

He needs to keep his paycheck coming, and while there would be a momentary thrill to come from the fame and glory of being the "the man in the know" if he were to leak something to us, that 15 minutes of fame would come with the very big downside of tarnishing his professional credibility for years to come should he be caught out.

Let's not tempt him. I distinctly recall when we had a member, new register of course, who chimed in on a pre-bulldozer discussion thread (a few years before bulldozer was released) and started divulging latency cycles for the new fpu targets in ways that was clearly not kosher. He quickly buttoned up, and IIRC he edited and deleted his posts after a couple days.

We just don't want to goad people into making career-limiting choices to sate our curiosity IMO. All will be known in good time.
Idontcare is online now  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:45 PM   #118
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
 
IntelUser2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyefinity View Post
So 4 threads vs 2 and generations ahead in manufacturing process...you could say that isn't really all that impressive especially as Brazos probably has it beat in gaming.

But lets humour you for a bit anyway. Take that 4x faster, half it for Kabini's 4 cores. It's now ~2x faster in multithreading. Now remove a bit for higher clocks due to the process gain (don't forget that TSMC's 40nm didn't even have HKMG, but the 28nm does).
4x is in average for a real world application while 2x cores bring 85-90%. Thar means the gap even with twice the cores and IPC improvement ends up around 2x.

Oh, for graphics. ULV IVB is on par or better than even ULV Trinity. Considering how Jaguar's GPU has still less SP's than the lowest Trinity, I think you should revise your expectations.

Bar doesn't stay still either.

They are selling Celeron and Pentium derivatives for maybe 50 dollars more device to device, compared to Brazos systems out there.

Haswell brings 15W to mainstream chips meaning it'll be cheaper than ones today.
__________________
Core i7 2600K + Turbo Boost | Intel DH67BL/GMA HD 3000 IGP | Corsair XMS3 2x2GB DDR3-1600 @ 1333 9-9-9-24 |
Intel X25-M G1 80GB + Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | OCZ Modstream 450W | Samsung Syncmaster 931c | Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit | Microsoft Sidewinder Mouse | Viliv S5-Atom Z520 WinXP UMPC

Last edited by IntelUser2000; 12-30-2012 at 02:50 PM.
IntelUser2000 is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:47 PM   #119
Centauri
Golden Member
 
Centauri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,408
Default

Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.
__________________
AMD A10-7850K APU ~ Radeon R7 IGP/8GBs of Patriot Viper 3 1866
128GB Samsung 830 SSD/2x 4TB Seagate DM000s/Gigabyte GA-F2A88XM-D3H
Antec EA-380D/Fractal Design Core 1000/Windows 8.1 Pro/Netgear Nighthawk
Centauri is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 02:48 PM   #120
Homeles
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,515
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centauri View Post
Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.
Richland is what's coming next year.
Homeles is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:08 PM   #121
inf64
Platinum Member
 
inf64's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,050
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Centauri View Post
Enlighten me; Rumors were that Kaveri is dead, yet AMD rebuffed those rumors a few weeks ago.

Assuming, however, that Kaveri is dead, what is there to look forward to next year on FM2? Because I had it in my head to drop-in whatever AMD releases next year for FM2.
Kaveri is alive but it's launching ~H1 2014 instead of H1 2013. Richland is (maybe 28nm) Piledriver with updated GPU (GCN?) launching in place of Kaveri. Both Kaveri and Richland should be FM2 compatible (2 placeholders on AMD's slide for FM2 successors to Trinity).

My guess is that AMD delayed Kaveri to beef up the GPU portion of the chip in response to Haswell's projected GPU performance. CPU side can't be redesigned significantly in ~6-8 months ( it can but not to affect performance in any significant way). That's why I think the reason for delay is GPU related and not CPU related.
__________________
ShintaiDK:"There will be no APU in PS4 and Xbox720."
ShintaiDK:"No quadchannel either.[in Kaveri]"
CHADBOGA:"Because he[OBR] is a great man."

Last edited by inf64; 12-30-2012 at 03:10 PM.
inf64 is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 03:40 PM   #122
beginner99
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,171
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by itsmydamnation View Post
the biggest problem with bobcat based laptops is that it was mainly only found in budget devices, jaguar based should meet the requirements for "standard" laptops especially if Turbo is allowed to full TDP.
The problem for brazos (and llano/trinity) is that there are laptops with Intel cpu that offer better price/performance. There are laptops with pentiums that are at the same price than brazos offerings and top end trinity (the ones with full GPU) sells for about the same as I3 + dedicated mobile GPU.

Besides that the GPU in AMDs chips are wasted die space for like 90% of users (probably more). Even i don't play games on my laptop and HD3000 it's fine for anything else.
beginner99 is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 04:56 PM   #123
itsmydamnation
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 614
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by beginner99 View Post
The problem for brazos (and llano/trinity) is that there are laptops with Intel cpu that offer better price/performance. There are laptops with pentiums that are at the same price than brazos offerings and top end trinity (the ones with full GPU) sells for about the same as I3 + dedicated mobile GPU.
right now that might be true, but it wasn't for a long time, remember bobcat is two years old now. When bobcat came out intels answer was to massively reduce atom pricing, they didn't have a processor in that price/performance segment.
itsmydamnation is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 08:16 PM   #124
IntelUser2000
Elite Member
 
IntelUser2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 3,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IntelUser2000 View Post
It looks like a good chip, but there's nothing that makes it stand out. It'll have to play between rock(Clover Trail) and a hard place(Core).

There's a technical reason for that. Care to guess why?
So anyone want to answer this? There's a simple name for it too, not longwinded technical explanation.
__________________
Core i7 2600K + Turbo Boost | Intel DH67BL/GMA HD 3000 IGP | Corsair XMS3 2x2GB DDR3-1600 @ 1333 9-9-9-24 |
Intel X25-M G1 80GB + Seagate 160GB 7200RPM | OCZ Modstream 450W | Samsung Syncmaster 931c | Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit | Microsoft Sidewinder Mouse | Viliv S5-Atom Z520 WinXP UMPC
IntelUser2000 is offline  
Old 12-30-2012, 09:52 PM   #125
Haserath
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 730
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by inf64 View Post
Kaveri is alive but it's launching ~H1 2014 instead of H1 2013. Richland is (maybe 28nm) Piledriver with updated GPU (GCN?) launching in place of Kaveri. Both Kaveri and Richland should be FM2 compatible (2 placeholders on AMD's slide for FM2 successors to Trinity).

My guess is that AMD delayed Kaveri to beef up the GPU portion of the chip in response to Haswell's projected GPU performance. CPU side can't be redesigned significantly in ~6-8 months ( it can but not to affect performance in any significant way). That's why I think the reason for delay is GPU related and not CPU related.
That would be a dumb move. Push it back a year and you push competition from Haswell to Broadwell.

I bet there is another reason for the delay. If it was going smoothly, they would release Kaveri then plan the next chip with whatever they needed.
Haserath is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:21 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.