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Old 12-22-2012, 12:29 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by TallBill View Post
The murder rate in the UK has indeed barely risen more as a percentage when compared to the murder rate in the US since guns were banned there.

But robberies, assaults, and rapes all occur at double the rate than in the US.

Check out www.gunfacts.info

Homicide in Canada and Australia went up though after bans.
Yeah, that's a totally unbiased site

Why not just quote directly from the NRA and be done with it.

Meawnhile, with real facts

Quote:
According to the latest figures released Thursday, the murder rate in the UK fell by 14 percent year-on-year to 550 homicides in 2011-12; the lowest it's been since 1983. Violent crime in England and Wales also fell by 7 percent, while robberies declined by 2 percent.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:32 AM   #152
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ARgue all you want but the facts don't back up your arguments.
Nor yours. How do you create a causal correlation between the firearms and the deaths?

I already linked this in another thread, but it's an awfully good read on the subject:
http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/...useronline.pdf

Socio-economic factors significantly affect crime. There just is not any cause and effect, when it comes to firearms, except that non-suicidal career criminals prefer non-confrontational crimes in the presence of an armed population. There is not substantial causal correlation. Not pro-gun, not anti-gun.

Gun control is a nice red herring, but that's mostly what it is. In the absence of guns, we wouldn't need them (the U.K., FI, which had little in the way of guns and gun crime, prior to gun control).

In their abundance, I'd prefer law-abiding citizens to be armed v. not. That is the U.S.' situation: outlaw guns, and outlaws will have easier access to them than regular folks, which would only serve to leave regular folks more vulnerable. If you want to get rid of them, you're 300 years too late. The best you can do is be selective about what ones law-abiding citizens can get their hands on.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:34 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by StinkyPinky View Post
Yeah, that's a totally unbiased site

Why not just quote directly from the NRA and be done with it.

Meawnhile, with real facts
I found those stats. They don't include robberies, vandalism, assault, rape and so forth. Rape is interesting in the UK - it's trending downwards in the US, and upwards in the UK.

The whole picture: you're either not looking for it, or avoiding it.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:00 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by StinkyPinky View Post
Yeah, that's a totally unbiased site

Why not just quote directly from the NRA and be done with it.

Meawnhile, with real facts
http://www.nationmaster.com/compare/...d-States/Crime

Like I said (in my corrected post) the murder rates by percentage between the UK and US have stayed the same when compared to each other for a long long time. But violent crimes in general in the UK have had a huge spike.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:32 AM   #155
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I think this opinion piece well summarizes my thoughts, because I'm sure we're all tired of typing the same thing repeatedly:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:00 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
I think this opinion piece well summarizes my thoughts, because I'm sure we're all tired of typing the same thing repeatedly:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/
Zing. Need to get people to actually read this.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:18 AM   #157
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Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
I think this opinion piece well summarizes my thoughts, because I'm sure we're all tired of typing the same thing repeatedly:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/


Long but worth the read, if you aren't an agenda driven buffoon.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:27 AM   #158
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Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
I think this opinion piece well summarizes my thoughts, because I'm sure we're all tired of typing the same thing repeatedly:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/
Good commentary. I, however disagree with parts of his opinion on the "gun culture."

Gun culture, as it promotes a safe and educational environment is great. That is not, however, the gun culture that we have. Our gun culture glorifies the gun as a tool of death and to an extent, vengeance and justice. People can be downright scary with guns, even so called "experienced" shooters. I rarely shoot with anyone but a select group of friends and family for that reason. Fingers left on triggers, weapons swinging around without thought, etc.

To me, we really do need to change how guns are portrayed in our media. Show some stupid training montage, drop lines reiterating proper gun safety, etc.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:37 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Farmer View Post
I think this opinion piece well summarizes my thoughts, because I'm sure we're all tired of typing the same thing repeatedly:

http://larrycorreia.wordpress.com/20...n-gun-control/
Interesting piece, thanks for passing it along. From the article:

Quote:
The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by law enforcement: 14. The average number of people shot in a mass shooting event when the shooter is stopped by civilians: 2.5. The reason is simple. The armed civilians are there when it started.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:57 AM   #160
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Good commentary. I, however disagree with parts of his opinion on the "gun culture."

Gun culture, as it promotes a safe and educational environment is great. That is not, however, the gun culture that we have. Our gun culture glorifies the gun as a tool of death and to an extent, vengeance and justice. People can be downright scary with guns, even so called "experienced" shooters. I rarely shoot with anyone but a select group of friends and family for that reason. Fingers left on triggers, weapons swinging around without thought, etc.

To me, we really do need to change how guns are portrayed in our media. Show some stupid training montage, drop lines reiterating proper gun safety, etc.
No, it's not, that's just the image that the ignorant anti-gun zealots want it to have. The ignorant, and the fools are not our gun culture.
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:46 AM   #161
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I'll take a shotgun over any stupid assault riffle so let the ban begin... I could care less...

Now if they wanted to take me shotgun than I might have some issues with that.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:31 AM   #162
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I'll take a shotgun over any stupid assault riffle so let the ban begin... I could care less...

Now if they wanted to take me shotgun than I might have some issues with that.
Once this ban doesn't work because it won't... what's next? I wouldn't personally use an AR15 to defend my current residence because there are plenty of other units around mine.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:17 AM   #163
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In 1920 Canada had 7% of the murder rate of the US. After gun control in Canada came into play, Canada's homicide rate was 35% of what it is in the US and violent crimes were double that of the US by 2003.
The fact that you are using stats from the 1920's of all things to try and make a point about gun control is hillarious in itself.
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Old 12-22-2012, 12:47 PM   #164
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The fact that you are using stats from the 1920's of all things to try and make a point about gun control is hillarious in itself.
Erm, obviously these are handpicked numbers, but the point is that Canada has always had lower murder rates compared to ours. Gun registration started in canada in 1934 so it isn't crazy to go beyond that as a baseline.
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Old 12-22-2012, 01:25 PM   #165
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500 meters, you'd be lucky to hit a tree in a smaller forest on that distance, note that my stalkers do not belive you can hit much of anything at that distance no matter if you have the worlds most accurate weapon.
Who are your stalkers? Most anyone I know can hit what they aim for at 500 m. All day, every day.
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Old 12-22-2012, 10:51 PM   #166
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Originally Posted by StinkyPinky View Post
Yeah, that's a totally unbiased site

Why not just quote directly from the NRA and be done with it.

Meawnhile, with real facts
And rape is double!!! Hooray!!!

As is assault doubled, hooray!!!

Guns are an equalizer. Girls, and the elderly can defend themselves.

Besides the UK is an island (literally) in the middle of no-murders-Europe. Different countries are different. Considering the rate of incarceration in the USA I'm surprised we don't have more murders related to arrests and whatnot.

We have municipalities that try to ban guns and the murder rate skyrockets. Because everywhere else has guns and it just makes it a defenseless victim mecca.

The USA is much, much larger and has hotzones of crime. The UK is a tiny little island.
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Old 12-23-2012, 10:32 AM   #167
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Originally Posted by StinkyPinky View Post
Yeah, that's a totally unbiased site

Why not just quote directly from the NRA and be done with it.

Meawnhile, with real facts
Meanwhile, with totally cherry picked statistics. If you want to trade a 14% lower homicide rate for 100% higher violent crime rates, please move out of my country (or maybe you're a Canadian, in that case please stay in Canada).

Regardless of how you like sugar coating this, the UK is the most dangerous, crime-infested nation in western Europe, and they achieved this amazing status by practically disarming the entire populace and putting a government surveillance camera on every corner.

But, obviously, the UK should the a role model for the US.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:48 AM   #168
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Two questions.

1. Is that Swedish? She sounds like the Swedish Chef.
2. How is this at all relevant.

Now i'm not one to call women names but that is one daft twat.

You should probably post the US national anthem now to assure patriotism and make everyone cry by waving a flag for a nation they just happened to be born in.
She lost almost everything she had and you come back and post that BS.... I put 8yrs into the military for my country and its beliefs and now expect them to be upheld and not regulated by a bunch of self serving non educated people. Half the people calling for this have never loaded a gun, shot a gun, reloaded a shell or taken any training at all.
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Old 12-24-2012, 02:54 AM   #169
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People that I know who are anti gun are not only completely uneducated but largely unwilling to even listen.
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Old 12-24-2012, 03:59 AM   #170
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People that I know who are anti gun are not only completely uneducated but largely unwilling to even listen.
Same.....
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:55 AM   #171
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Same.....
http://jpfo.org/filegen-n-z/ragingag...elfdefense.htm

It's agenda-driven and heavily biased, but it kinda makes sense.
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Old 12-24-2012, 10:57 AM   #172
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Those who are asking why someone should be allowed to have a rifle like an AR-15 are missing the point entirely.

Regardless of whether or not one feels that an assault weapons ban would be a good idea, it is clearly unconstitutional after DC v. Heller, which states that the 2nd Amendment protects all arms "in common use".

The AR-15 is the best selling center-fire rifle in the United States at the moment. It is in common use, and therefore it is protected. The same follows for other rifles that are similar in nature, even if they are not quite as popular.

While magazine capacity restrictions were not addressed in Heller, the same "common use" argument could be applied. The magazine is necessary to the functionality of the firearm. If something like an AR-15 is protected under the 2nd Amendment, the magazines necessary to its functionality must be as well. Since 30 round magazines are the standard capacity magazine for a firearm in common use, the magazines of that capacity are also in common use, and it follows that they would also be protected under the 2nd Amendment.

Even if an assault weapons ban does pass, it will be struck down by the Supreme Court. So all those who want an assault weapons ban are doing is wasting their own time, and the taxpayer's time and money.
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Old 12-24-2012, 11:55 AM   #173
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People that I know who are anti gun are not only completely uneducated but largely unwilling to even listen.
Owning a gun increases the chances of dying by homicide or suicide. Pretty simple.

Are you willing to listen ?

http://aje.oxfordjournals.org/content/160/10/929.full
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:02 PM   #174
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Owning a pool increases the risk of drowning. Should we ban pools?
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Old 12-24-2012, 12:17 PM   #175
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Owning a pool increases the risk of drowning. Should we ban pools?
First of all you're quite likely wrong. People who own pools probably are better swimmers and are less likely to drown.

Here's the point about the gun statistics. There are people who think owning a gun makes them safer.

The statistics show that isn't the case. Having a gun around significantly increases the chances a person will die by suicide or homicide.

If guns made people safer that wouldn't be true.
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