Just bought KEF LS 50s...

[Scotteq]

They haven't arrived yet. But in preparation, I set up my NAD surround (T754, iirc) in my office with my old KEF iQ10s.

After the weekend, I resigned myself to the (obvious) conclusion that surround sound processors do sh*t stereo as a general rule. So, I am now looking for a US$ 1k~ish stereo integrated amp with an integrated crossover'd output for a small sub. A DAC in the same box would be good, but not mandatory. The recommended power for the new speakers is 20~100 watts per channel, and I would trade away some power for better clarity/detail/imaging. The intended usage is Nearfield (about 4 feet), for myself. Sources will be my Yammy CD player and my computer. Considering getting a dedicated streaming box down the road. Tubes OK.

I have a couple in mind, but would like to hear from the forum

[gus6464]

The Emotiva USP-1 and UPA-200 combo is exactly what you are looking for. The USP-1 2ch Preamp has subwoofer out with independent XO control and the UPA-200 pumps out 125w@8ohms. You are going to have to get a separate DAC though. Both will come in at under $700 so you have plenty of room left for a DAC if you wish.

http://shop.emotiva.com/products/upa200
http://shop.emotiva.com/products/usp1

[Number1]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

They haven't arrived yet. But in preparation, I set up my NAD surround (T754, iirc) in my office with my old KEF iQ10s.

After the weekend, I resigned myself to the (obvious) conclusion that surround sound processors do sh*t stereo as a general rule. So, I am now looking for a US$ 1k~ish stereo integrated amp with an integrated crossover'd output for a small sub. A DAC in the same box would be good, but not mandatory. The recommended power for the new speakers is 20~100 watts per channel, and I would trade away some power for better clarity/detail/imaging. The intended usage is Nearfield (about 4 feet), for myself. Sources will be my Yammy CD player and my computer. Considering getting a dedicated streaming box down the road. Tubes OK.

I have a couple in mind, but would like to hear from the forum

Your current equipment looks like fairly high end high quality equipment. Anything wrong with it? What happened this weekend?
Have you listened to the LS 50s first?

[Scotteq]

The LS50s haven't arrived yet, so I can't speak to them except to say they're VERY highly rated for the price ($1,500/pr). The iQ10s are an older gen KEF, and a lower series, but are of similar size and same driver type. So I set them up at my intended spot (on stands at the backside of my desk- 3.5 ft from my chair), with the amplifier I had (the NAD). Set to stereo mode, processing and tone controls off.

The result is pleasant enough... Impact is good, they're smooth, female vocals are not 'chest-y'. But the clarity is only 'meh' and the imaging is vague at best. I know for a fact the iQ10s are better than what the NAD has delivered in stereo mode, because I had them hooked up to an old Rotel setup in the past and they were much much better then I've experienced with the T754. As a result, I decided it's non sensical to cripple the LS50s with the NAD.

[Scotteq]

Here's a picture for ya - If there's something wrong with the setup, please advise. I triple checked polarities, and the drivers are in the same plane as the monitors. (Not behind...)

[Scotteq]

They're Heeeeere!

[Scotteq]

OK- the UPS guy dropped them off at 8 last night, so my listening was limited. They're not broken in yet anyhow... But:

VERY heavy for their size- around 15 lbs apiece. They were very well packed in snug fitting dense plastic foam. The only finish is a 'piano' black, which is well done. Nice, subtle lettering on the speaker surround, and in the finish on the tops.

KEF use a concentric driver arrangement: the tweeter is mounted in the center of the driver, and protected by a star shaped waveguide which is the maker claims helps reduce interference and reflections. This particular speaker is rear-ported, so bass response will be affected by placement and distance from the back wall. KEF provide a set of foam plugs to help tune this- There's actually 4 of them - 2 tubes with matching plugs - so you may partially or fully block the rear port. The (sparse) user guide gives guidance as to how far for which combination. My desk is close to the wall, so based on their recommendation, I blocked the rear port entirely.

For placement, I set them on the same Audioengine, angled plastic stands I had for the iQ10's. About 3 and a half feet from my chair, which aimed the tweeters at the top of my head. Off angle response for these is supposed to be exceptional, so I toed them in only slightly. I briefly tried aiming them directly at me, and that sounded very little different. So I put them back to the original shallower angle so when I'm walking around the room stereo separation is better maintained.

It's easy to tell they're a different class of speaker- the soundstage is clearly more stable, deeper, and more detailed. They're also a little warmer sounding than I expected, and in a good way. I can tell they're a little less efficient than the iQ's were, but they`re tight and better controlled. It's too soon to make any real judgement, but the phrase "Highly Balanced" comes to mind - no area (high, mid, or low) stands out over any other.

On the other hand, I'm now more determined to replace the NAD than before.

[Number1]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

They're Heeeeere!

Very nice looking units. How do they sound?

[Scotteq]

Update:

- decided to buy a Peachtree Nova 125 - should arrive later this week. (Can't wait!!). It's more than I originally wanted to spend ($1500 US), but it's supposed to have the best DAC in it's price range. No crossover, but it does have a preamp pass through for my sub.

I also spent Saturday tearing apart my basement. Mostly because it needed clearing out anyhow... but while I was at it, I went back to Audio Basics, pulled my table out into the middle of the room to get the speakers away from the walls and shelves. Moved my monitors further back behind them (off the original table, and onto another AAMOF), and spent a couple hours puttering around tweaking distance apart (settled on 4 feet), toe-in, and height. Definitely much better: I'm no longer disappointed in the sound, which is improved in all respects.

Very stoked now in anticipation of my new amp's arrival.

Then on to improving sources. :p

[Number1]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

Update:

- decided to buy a Peachtree Nova 125 - should arrive later this week. (Can't wait!!). It's more than I originally wanted to spend ($1500 US), but it's supposed to have the best DAC in it's price range. No crossover, but it does have a preamp pass through for my sub.

I also spent Saturday tearing apart my basement. Mostly because it needed clearing out anyhow... but while I was at it, I went back to Audio Basics, pulled my table out into the middle of the room to get the speakers away from the walls and shelves. Moved my monitors further back behind them (off the original table, and onto another AAMOF), and spent a couple hours puttering around tweaking distance apart (settled on 4 feet), toe-in, and height. Definitely much better: I'm no longer disappointed in the sound, which is improved in all respects.

Very stoked now in anticipation of my new amp's arrival.

Then on to improving sources. :p

Have you tried your old speaker in the new configuration?
Why not go with real proven measurable science like a receiver with built in speaker equalization like audyssey, a top of the line equalization system? It would allow you to place your speakers wherever you want and extract the best possible performance out of your speakers.

Minds you, you're talking audiophile so, meh, science doesn't count at that level.

[Scotteq]

My intent is to remove and simplify, rather than add more processing or equalisation. - the Audiophile axiom is "straight wire with amplification". That the system can ideally re~create the original atmosphere as recorded without adding or changing {"coloring"}, while rendering any/every detail, and providing the auditory illusion of 'space'- meaning the locations of the performers and a sense of the "air" around them. The problem is I have an impossible (for me) to reach standard, as I roommated with a *serious* audio nut when I was in the service: Since he didn't need to tend to such trivialities like a mortgage or food or clothing, he put all his coin into his stereo.... and more.... To the tune of 3x his annual take home pay. 20 years later, I still have the memory of his B&W Matrix 802 speakers ($16K a pair in 1990), Conrad Johnson preamp, and (bought used) Mark Levinson monoblocks as my internal reference for sound quality.

The thing I don't like about the NAD is I can hear it processing the sound, as opposed to delivering clarity and transparency. I know I'm being picky, but I want to take that processing away, rather than add more stuff to the signal chain.

[blotto]

Have you tried a $1200 Audioquest cable with those yet? Things like placement, DAC quality, and proper amplification don't matter with amazing cables. That's all you'll need for multiple eargasms.

[Scotteq]

Originally Posted by blotto

Have you tried a $1200 Audioquest cable with those yet? Things like placement, DAC quality, and proper amplification don't matter with amazing cables. That's all you'll need for multiple eargasms.

Audioquest are terrible

What you really want is a set of Omaewabakatareda - They use a rarified alloy of 99.999% pure silver in a proprietary process which results in a flexible, yet durable conductor guaranteed to reveal the last mysteries of your beloved music. The latest advance in their never ending quest for improvement is with a new insulator technology derived from hand weaving the pubic hair of virgins from the Fiji islands ...you have no idea how hard it is to find virgins with pubic hair in Fiji!!!! with down combed from the ass of an ass... The resulting presentation is easygoing, unobtrusive, elegantly balanced in the midrange, and smells ever so slightly of fish...

...oh - As an added bonus, the purchasers of these fine cables - clearly a bargain at $50,000/ft - will receive a genuine leather binder containing the pictures and autographs of the virgins who contributed to your interconnect. ...don't look, though - there's good reason they were virgins...

[Number1]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

Audioquest are terrible

What you really want is a set of Omaewabakatareda - They use a rarified alloy of 99.999% pure silver in a proprietary process which results in a flexible, yet durable conductor guaranteed to reveal the last mysteries of your beloved music. The latest advance in their never ending quest for improvement is with a new insulator technology derived from hand weaving the pubic hair of virgins from the Fiji islands ...you have no idea how hard it is to find virgins with pubic hair in Fiji!!!! with down combed from the ass of an ass... The resulting presentation is easygoing, unobtrusive, elegantly balanced in the midrange, and smells ever so slightly of fish...

...oh - As an added bonus, the purchasers of these fine cables - clearly a bargain at $50,000/ft - will receive a genuine leather binder containing the pictures and autographs of the virgins who contributed to your interconnect. ...don't look, though - there's good reason they were virgins...

Not bad, did you come up with this yourself?

[Scotteq]

The leather binder of virgins is a Lewis Black reference, but the rest I pulled out of my...




..head.

[kornphlake]

Since you're re-arranging the room, the speakers would probably benefit from either being placed on the edge of the table or being raised a couple feet off the table (which would mean you'd have to sit on a very tall chair or stand to listen to them.) You're probably hearing some floor bounce, the short little stands you're using are no doubt improving the sound, but there's still quite a bit to be gained by minimizing the reflections off the desktop.

[Scotteq]

I did move them to the edges of the table, and moved my monitors further back. That made a diff,,,

I have some stands on order, but you gave me an idea to treat the desk itself. Shall investigate Thanks!!

[Scotteq]

Originally Posted by kornphlake

Since you're re-arranging the room, the speakers would probably benefit from either being placed on the edge of the table or being raised a couple feet off the table (which would mean you'd have to sit on a very tall chair or stand to listen to them.) You're probably hearing some floor bounce, the short little stands you're using are no doubt improving the sound, but there's still quite a bit to be gained by minimizing the reflections off the desktop.

With the recent holidays, we have LOTS of packing material in the garage, I didn't have much to do this weekend, and it gave me the illusion of doing something productive. It seems the tabletop isn't much of a problem, and I have a set of 1 foot stands coming sometime this week. So those should take care of that. But the monitors (still!!) are/were.

I made a pair of.. "blinders" ( the best descriptive word I can think of) out of some slabs of styrofoam, a couple short pieces of 2x4 I had laying around, and some masking tape to hold the mess together. Started with single sheets of 2 inch foam just leaned against the monitors, and yah - imaging improved. Tried 2 pieces for 4 inches, and that was better. Putting a 3rd piece of foam in there didn't make much difference, so out with the tape...

Imaging is stronger and clearly more stable. Result

Poked around a little, and ordered some patterned acoustic foam from Amazon since (as expected) I didn't find anything ready made.

[kornphlake]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

Poked around a little, and ordered some patterned acoustic foam from Amazon since (as expected) I didn't find anything ready made.

For future reference, you can find foam mattress toppers at any department store for around $20 which would give you enough material to cover every flat surface within 4 feet of each speaker. The stuff that is marketed as acoustical foam is $$$ compared to a mattress topper. Then again if it were me I'd buy 30 sqft of foam cheap and only use 1 sqft, then I'd have 29 sqft of foam cluttering up my garage for the next 20 years until I finally realize I'm never going to use any rotted old foam for anything.

[Scotteq]

Excess??

Bass traps for the corners, my friend... Bass traps.

[goobernoodles]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

Audioquest are terrible

What you really want is a set of Omaewabakatareda - They use a rarified alloy of 99.999% pure silver in a proprietary process which results in a flexible, yet durable conductor guaranteed to reveal the last mysteries of your beloved music. The latest advance in their never ending quest for improvement is with a new insulator technology derived from hand weaving the pubic hair of virgins from the Fiji islands ...you have no idea how hard it is to find virgins with pubic hair in Fiji!!!! with down combed from the ass of an ass... The resulting presentation is easygoing, unobtrusive, elegantly balanced in the midrange, and smells ever so slightly of fish...

...oh - As an added bonus, the purchasers of these fine cables - clearly a bargain at $50,000/ft - will receive a genuine leather binder containing the pictures and autographs of the virgins who contributed to your interconnect. ...don't look, though - there's good reason they were virgins...

^LOL

[goobernoodles]

Originally Posted by Scotteq

Poked around a little, and ordered some patterned acoustic foam from Amazon since (as expected) I didn't find anything ready made.

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

[Scotteq]

Originally Posted by goobernoodles

http://www.atsacoustics.com/

Bookmarked!~

Thank you, Sir