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Old 12-16-2012, 09:19 AM   #176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Final8ty View Post
So then send mails to them and not post in forums if your not interested, because users experience is what forums are all about.
Forums are not here to just post what AMD,NV and review sites claim and we should all just swallow it.
And at least yours is not stealth its blatant.
Lol....you cannot win an argument with this guy.

This forum is CLOSE to 50/50 AMD/nVIDIA bias in my opinion.

User's data is very welcome because even 'professional' review sites could be on a company's payroll or in their pocket too....just to carry the mistrust even further.So who do we really trust?Two sites or the majority of sites,Nvidia marketers,Nvidia biased sites or no one at all?
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:24 AM   #177
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Originally Posted by Final8ty View Post
So then send mails to them and not post in forums if your not interested, because users experience is what forums are all about.
Forums are not here to just post what AMD,NV and review sites claim and we should all just swallow it.
And at least yours is not stealth its blatant.
I did send emails. And the point of the thread is to indeed get the forum community "behind" this effort. An email from one dude (me) isn't much. But a hundred emails (from all of us) might get a fire under someone to get it done.
So you, like a few others here would presume to tell me to just email, or PM the editors of the sites and not make issues like this public. Don't think that these things you say go unnoticed, Final8ty. I'm sure many now have it in their "duly noted" column.
And whether or not this "pill" is hard to swallow is completely up to you and your own wish to stifle such talks. You can't fight an honest approach, Final8ty. All you do is suggest keyboard incompatibilities instead of emailing the review site editors yourself, which I can say would be a lot more productive. But you'll have no part of that, will you...
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:38 AM   #178
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I did send emails. And the point of the thread is to indeed get the forum community "behind" this effort. An email from one dude (me) isn't much. But a hundred emails (from all of us) might get a fire under someone to get it done.
So you, like a few others here would presume to tell me to just email, or PM the editors of the sites and not make issues like this public. Don't think that these things you say go unnoticed, Final8ty. I'm sure many now have it in their "duly noted" column.
And whether or not this "pill" is hard to swallow is completely up to you and your own wish to stifle such talks. You can't fight an honest approach, Final8ty. All you do is suggest keyboard incompatibilities instead of emailing the review site editors yourself, which I can say would be a lot more productive. But you'll have no part of that, will you...
No your point is to get the community behind the same view as what you want based on a review and only post experience that follow the same conclusion as it, there are other forums for that already.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:40 AM   #179
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Glad I made the right choice, for myself anyways. Everyone was going on about the 7970 and the price/performance. I stuck with my gut and went with a gtx 670. I play skyrim exclusively so this could have been really bad had I went AMD.
I'm busy either working or working on my house most days. I don't have the time or desire to fool around with drivers or tweaks. I just need it to work and work right. Nvidia wins in that category hands down.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:48 AM   #180
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No your point is to get the community behind the same view as what you want based on a review and only post experience that follow the same conclusion as it, there are forums for that already.
What "I" want? How is that possible when I'm asking review sites to investigate? Do you think I have any "sway" with them and can dictate how I want the results to come out? If you believe that, then surely you believe that I made the right choice in not accepting any forum posters results if you won't even accept what a review site says.
You don't even see that further investigations can go either way. It might be to your benefit. How you oppose the idea so much and are blinded to this fact. And like NIGEL is so fond of telling me, please stop telling me what and how to post. I'll post what I like within the forum guidelines just like anyone else can. So try to stifle as you wish, it just isn't happening.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:50 AM   #181
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What "I" want? How is that possible when I'm asking review sites to investigate? Do you think I have any "sway" with them and can dictate how I want the results to come out? If you believe that, then surely you believe that I made the right choice in not accepting any forum posters results if you won't even accept what a review site says.
You don't even see that further investigations can go either way. It might be to your benefit. How you oppose the idea so much and are blinded to this fact. And like NIGEL is so fond of telling me, please stop telling me what and how to post. I'll post what I like within the forum guidelines just like anyone else can. So try to stifle as you wish, it just isn't happening.
What you have just wrote is about what your doing not me, your the one who is opposing the experience of users who don't follow what you want, not me.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:52 AM   #182
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No your point is to get the community behind the same view as what you want based on a review and only post experience that follow the same conclusion as it, there are other forums for that already.
It's not worth it, you're getting trolled at this point. Maybe nvidia is trying to sell an extra 10 or so cards over the holiday season via a fud compaign, maybe techreport thinks Skyrim is a solid engine to do this fail test on.

It should be evident by how some random review from one site out of the many, many out there with erroneous and contradictory results to all the other sites getting spread around everywhere is more than meets the eyes.

Something has to be done to get nvidia to toss a few scraps down from the table once a year I guess.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #183
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It's not worth it, you're getting trolled at this point. Maybe nvidia is trying to sell an extra 10 or so cards over the holiday season via a fud compaign, maybe techreport thinks Skyrim is a solid engine to do this fail test on.

It should be evident by how some random review from one site out of the many, many out there with erroneous and contradictory results to all the other sites getting spread around everywhere is more than meets the eyes.

Something has to be done to get nvidia to toss a few scraps down from the table once a year I guess.
Indeed.
And i have guests coming around so later.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:19 AM   #184
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What's there to argue? Same camera, same hardware, difference being the video card.

One looks like you're captain on the high seas and the other is smooth. Camera doesn't lie.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:31 AM   #185
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What's there to argue? Same camera, same hardware, difference being the video card.

One looks like you're captain on the high seas and the other is smooth. Camera doesn't lie.
but the game engine itself had been tampered with so that result wouldn't have happened if it wasn't
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:32 AM   #186
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but the game engine itself had been tampered with so that result wouldn't have happened if it wasn't
Because someone in this thread claimed it?
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #187
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Tech report published the high speed camera as an example of the difference. It is a what it looks so you can see it related to the numbers. Numbers which they incidentally posted for a number of modern games, not just sky rim. They could have shown any video, they would all show the same thing, microstutter and noticeable long jitters on some frames compared to a much smoother result.

So just because you think its not valid on sky rim to test like that it doesn't invalidate the entire review and result across a lot of games.

If the drivers are messed up you do realise that is amds driver? I am quite certain they cleaned the drivers off, reinstalled multiple times trying to get more normal results, but it made no difference. If this happens only for some setups that is still bad, because you could buy this card and have this problem. I had 7970s and have had that problem since they were released, and no amount of new drivers, sync, triple buffering would fix it.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:45 AM   #188
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So we can make any claims we want now as proof of our argument?


In response to the game being hacked.

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Old 12-16-2012, 10:59 AM   #189
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Times are different now, forums are corrupt and stealth marketing is rampant, sooooooo, at this point, I'll only "hear" accredited review sites on this issue. Sorry man, just the way it is. For me anyway. Not speaking for everyone of course.
Let's not go off the deep end Keys...no need for paranoia

If no one on these forums are believable, then why even post here? More data from forum members is always welcome IMO...even if there are stealth marketers, they wouldn't post fake game data I think as it can be verified and called out if fake. Even Rollo never posted fake data IIRC...
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:04 AM   #190
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Would it be fair to say that a lot performance leads AMD had on Nvidia have diminshed? Somewhere is this thread I thought i remember seeing that a rollback to at least 12.7 was needed to somewhat resolve the issue at hand. If this is the case Nvidia would probably win fps overall. Correct?
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:11 AM   #191
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Let's not go off the deep end Keys...no need for paranoia

If no one on these forums are believable, then why even post here? More data is always welcome IMO...even if there are stealth marketers, they wouldn't post fake game data I think as it can be verified and called out if fake. Even Rollo never posted fake data IIRC...
For situations like this, Thilan, it is a very wise caution. I'm not off any deep end. I am using common sense. And a touch of paranoia could be healthy if not misplaced.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:12 AM   #192
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Would it be fair to say that a lot performance leads AMD had on Nvidia have diminshed? Somewhere is this thread I thought i remember seeing that a rollback to at least 12.7 was needed to somewhat resolve the issue at hand. If this is the case Nvidia would probably win fps overall. Correct?
No idea. But that is surely something the review sites could investigate.
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Old 12-16-2012, 11:56 AM   #193
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Originally Posted by Majcric View Post
Would it be fair to say that a lot performance leads AMD had on Nvidia have diminshed? Somewhere is this thread I thought i remember seeing that a rollback to at least 12.7 was needed to somewhat resolve the issue at hand. If this is the case Nvidia would probably win fps overall. Correct?
Nope, not even according to the reporter of this latest 'issue'.

The 680 has never been faster then the GHz edition, here is the 12.7 catalyst comparison from the same source as the current 'issue'.

http://techreport.com/review/23150/a...-ghz-edition/4
















Being skyrim is the one in the video take note of this.



And for a bonus

Where's the outrage?

Being I can't add the final 2 games images as the post hit the limit, here are the results and links.
Batman
680 - 58
7970 - 48
http://techreport.com/review/23150/a...-ghz-edition/8

Crysis
680 - 44
7970 - 38
http://techreport.com/review/23150/a...-ghz-edition/9

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No idea. But that is surely something the review sites could investigate.
They already did. AMD won.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:25 PM   #194
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According to you, AMD is winning today as well, with 12.11's.

It would be great if TechReport could redo the bench using 12.7's and the high speed camera. It was probably much smoother with 12.7's also and so Scott didn't really pick up on any difference in smoothness, or not enough difference to take note. You should ask him.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:11 PM   #195
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Nope, not even according to the reporter of this latest 'issue'.

The 680 has never been faster then the GHz edition, here is the 12.7 catalyst comparison from the same source as the current 'issue'.

http://techreport.com/review/23150/a...-ghz-edition/4
















Being skyrim is the one in the video take note of this.



And for a bonus

Where's the outrage?

Being I can't add the final 2 games images as the post hit the limit, here are the results and links.
Batman
680 - 58
7970 - 48
http://techreport.com/review/23150/a...-ghz-edition/8

Crysis
680 - 44
7970 - 38
http://techreport.com/review/23150/a...-ghz-edition/9


They already did. AMD won.
The geforce cards should be able to use the latest drivers though vs AMD 12.7. Or to put another way use the latest properly working drivers.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:19 PM   #196
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According to you, AMD is winning today as well, with 12.11's.

It would be great if TechReport could redo the bench using 12.7's and the high speed camera. It was probably much smoother with 12.7's also and so Scott didn't really pick up on any difference in smoothness, or not enough difference to take note. You should ask him.
Nice try, according to every review out there the 7970 GHz edition is the undisputed performance leader. You can't spin that one. This is not my word, just read a few reviews.

Even TR has only 'found' issue(s) with the 7950.

For the smoothness point I included the 99% thing that Scott has included in the review which clearly show there was no issue with the GHz edition and 12.7 frametimes. These are not my words and you cannot crucify me for merely showing you that the 7970 was the performance king even by the site that has 'found' something now with the 7950.

Why would I need to ask him something, the proof is already in front of us. I am awaiting more data about the 7950 issue that has been covered, but until then these are just basic reviews presented by reviewers. Don't try to spin this one.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:24 PM   #197
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The geforce cards should be able to use the latest drivers though vs AMD 12.7. Or to put another way use the latest properly working drivers.
Ok, that's a valid point. If the issue would be such that AMD users should revert to 12.7's, then there could/should be a new review with 12.7 vs. the latest whql nvidia driver.

We still need to get to the bottom of the 'issue' but if it were drivers we'd have to go back to the last verifiable and stable drivers. The evidence/data hasn't been enough to verify the cause yet, much less does the issue exist and to what degree, meaning verify what's the exact issue.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:25 PM   #198
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Ok, that's a valid point. If the issue would be such that AMD users should revert to 12.7's, then there could/should be a new review with 12.7 vs. the latest whql nvidia driver.

We still need to get to the bottom of the 'issue' but if it were drivers we'd have to go back to the last verifiable and stable drivers. The evidence/data hasn't been enough to verify the cause yet, much less does the issue exist and to what degree, meaning verify what's the exact issue.
Yes, that is a valid point and I didn't think of that either.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:41 PM   #199
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Yes, that is a valid point and I didn't think of that either.
Yep, but it's still pretty farfetched at this point. Very farfetched in fact. Even supposing said issue ever gets verified and if it were true and related to drivers AMD would likely just release an updated driver so there's be no point in going back to 12.7.

Regardless of that minor detail there is far more to determine what's even going on and that is getting pretty far ahead of the wagon.

If your filter didn't filter out the other points you'd see that. Looking at Scotts earlier reviews including the 570, it was horrible with frametimes - whatever that even means in the end. Yet the 570 was never flamed.

There are so many inconsistencies and double standards here that it's not even funny.
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Old 12-16-2012, 01:54 PM   #200
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Would it be fair to say that a lot performance leads AMD had on Nvidia have diminshed? Somewhere is this thread I thought i remember seeing that a rollback to at least 12.7 was needed to somewhat resolve the issue at hand. If this is the case Nvidia would probably win fps overall. Correct?
Nope, TechReport said that newer AMD drivers are best overall in their testing. No need to roll back to anything older. Check the conclusion section of their first recent article on this.

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