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Old 12-13-2012, 05:07 PM   #476
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after using it for a while, I can say that Win 8 is really half baked. The experience is not very good. And will be confusing for a lot of people.

It's should be called "Windows 8, the work-around Operating System"
You need to do something? There's a work-around for that!
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Old 12-13-2012, 05:41 PM   #477
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Originally Posted by finbarqs View Post
after using it for a while, I can say that Win 8 is really half baked. The experience is not very good. And will be confusing for a lot of people.

It's should be called "Windows 8, the work-around Operating System"
You need to do something? There's a work-around for that!
So, do you hate Windows 7?


On the desktop, Windows 8 is basically Windows 7 with some additions, like a new interface and app system that provides a different UI for doing a few things if you don't want to leave that interface.
But it's glorious, because the simple stuff is right there in a big-screen UI, but the moment you tire of that (or you can ignore it all the time except for interaction with the Start Screen, aka Start Menu) you can exit it and return to the Windows you've always known, which in of itself has a ton of improvements.

I'm in the classic Windows environment more often than not, but for simple mail checking I've even switched to using "Mail" more often than not. If I need more options, I still have my Outlook 2010 install but it's not needed most often, and Mail is far more visually pleasing. I love simplicity in UIs.
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Old 12-13-2012, 06:00 PM   #478
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Originally Posted by Pr0d1gy View Post
Hey guys, I was just looking for a little clarification about Xbox Music. Now, do I buy tracks individually or do I buy a sub and download all the music I want? And, with either scenario, does it download them as mp3's that I can then move to other devices (I have 4 ps3's in my house and my kids are getting Nexus 7's for Xmas)?

If you want MP3s, you have to purchase tracks. I'm not sure if they offer 100% MP3s for all purchases, but it's always seem that way for me, except for the rare track... but that is only my experience when it was known as Zune. I don't think there has been any catalog difference between Zune and Xbox Music (as in, they access the same catalog, 99.9% sure)... but I think they also improved everything as a whole when they made the re-launch with Xbox Music.
No DRM-free download/purchase I've made on Zune has been anything but MP3 for awhile I reckon. Early on, MP3/DRM-free WMA were both fairly equal in prevalence.


I've had the Zune Pass (Music Pass) for a long time, and still have the grandfathered $15/month plan. But that also still gives me 10 download/purchase credits every month, which nets me MP3s for songs I really like.
But I have to continue to use the actual Zune program (no "Metro" app) if I want to use credits. But I can and do use both Zune and Xbox Music on my PC.


As for the subscription, I love it - but no, you do not get MP3s for the subscription downloads. What you do get it unlimited DRM'd downloads and streaming, on any Xbox Music compatible device. I don't think I can even have my Zune HD interact with the Xbox Music software, I still have to use the Zune desktop app to sync with it (it is a discontinued device after all, so I guess it's expected).
How one actually loads music onto other devices in Xbox Music, I've no idea. I know there are cloud-based features, including a music match service, for other compatible devices. From any such device, you can also stream and download from the catalog.

Compatible devices, at this point, are basically anything with Windows 8, Windows RT, or Windows Phone 8. Windows Phone 7 MAY be included, I don't actually know.

Sometime "in the future," there will be Android and iOS Xbox Music apps, supposedly with full service support. When we get that for such devices, no idea. I'm hoping soon, guessing a year away. I'd LOVE Zune/Xbox Music on my Android phone, Nexus 7, and could probably hack it into my Motoactv.

So you can get a subscription, but if you NEED MP3s, you'd still have to buy them. I have a strong suspicion Microsoft won't ever give the PS3 a Music app, though it would be mighty kind.

You MAY be able to play the DRM files on any device that plays WMA files, but you'd have to manually sideload files every month to keep the DRM license up to date. No guarantee that will even work. For PS3 (assuming you would be satisfied with Xbox Music apps on Android/iOS), you could do some kind of streaming setup. Haven't tried that in forever, can't remember if that works.
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Old 12-13-2012, 07:53 PM   #479
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Thanks for all that. I have a Win8 PC so I've been using it a good deal but I'd rather just buy mp3's than pay for a radio every month...lol wtf I read in an article that you can download albums while subbing, of course I doubted that meant what they implied and you have confirmed that.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:21 PM   #480
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Thanks for all that. I have a Win8 PC so I've been using it a good deal but I'd rather just buy mp3's than pay for a radio every month...lol wtf I read in an article that you can download albums while subbing, of course I doubted that meant what they implied and you have confirmed that.

Thanks again.
Yes, you can download entire albums.

Not sure how it works on Xbox Music and other devices, but I'll download entire albums and sync them with my ZuneHD (same thing was supported for WP7 phones). I think the same general concept works with mobile devices and Xbox Music.

Sure, it's DRM'd, and they stop playing if you stop the subscription, but I can throw them on any supported device and have offline music.
my ZuneHD doesn't get utilized with headphones as much anymore, but it's my default audio playback device when driving. Having 32gb of music (some owned, most DRM'd) available in the vehicle is pure win.

So it's not exactly the same as adding to your MP3 collection. But depending upon your needs/preferences, it can be quite close in the end.
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Old 12-13-2012, 08:41 PM   #481
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When you do the Upgrade install of Win8 can you select the drive it installs to or do you need to install directly over the previous Windows installation? I was hoping to upgrade from Win7 to Win8 simultaneously with installing a new SSD boot drive in my HTPC.

Or will I need to install Win7 directly onto the SSD to qualify for the upgrade? (Or find some upgrade workaround and clean install 8, whatever)
I do not believe you can choose a new drive when upgrading. It's either upgrade in-place where it's at or do a clean installation on the SSD.
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Old 12-13-2012, 11:02 PM   #482
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So, do you hate Windows 7?


On the desktop, Windows 8 is basically Windows 7 with some additions, like a new interface and app system that provides a different UI for doing a few things if you don't want to leave that interface.
But it's glorious, because the simple stuff is right there in a big-screen UI, but the moment you tire of that (or you can ignore it all the time except for interaction with the Start Screen, aka Start Menu) you can exit it and return to the Windows you've always known, which in of itself has a ton of improvements.

I'm in the classic Windows environment more often than not, but for simple mail checking I've even switched to using "Mail" more often than not. If I need more options, I still have my Outlook 2010 install but it's not needed most often, and Mail is far more visually pleasing. I love simplicity in UIs.

That's the thing. It's completely bi-polar. It's like when I pin a shortcut on my metro screen, all of a sudden when i open it, the desktop comes about. And when the desktop is about, I can't multi-task with the "1/3 screen pin" it's like the gestures somewhat disappeared. And When I'm trying to use the virtual keyboard, I have to hit the virtual keyboard to come up. It just feels very unintuitive.

I mean I can figure things out, but there's a work around for almost anything. It's like they should've made the transition between metro and desktop smoother, instead of polar opposites. Like why have 2 different internet explorers? It's like running virtual machine, but faster. And the worst part is, XP Mode on Windows 7 is more seamless than Desktop mode on metro! when you put an app in xp mode, it shows up on the win 7 start menu, like a regular app. When you launch it, it doesn't even feel like you're in windows xp! (granted the minimize, maximize, close bar will appear different)

But it's too much, and not enough at the same time. And I don't want to download any 3rd party tweaks to make it work the way I want it to. They should separate it from the get go!

And with customer's, I'm so scared to even recommend win 8 to them on any new build. Without the touch screen, it just becomes cumbersome. I'm already getting tons of calls asking me how to do this, how to do that, why is it doing this, why is it doing that... really damn annoying. And people asking me if they can go back to 7...

Windows 8, is not easy by any means.
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Old 12-14-2012, 05:02 AM   #483
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Windows 8, is not easy by any means.
But the fact is...it is.
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Old 12-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #484
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I'm sure it won't be long before some enterprising hacker uncovers the baked-in method of booting directly to the desktop, i.e. booting up and not even seeing the Metro/Modern Start Screen.

Several times, I have used the Win8 upgrade media to do fresh installs. By design, Microsoft won't let you activate such an installation, but there are workarounds -- two that I've found so far.

Until you do a workaround to get Win8 activated, IT BYPASSES THE START SCREEN AND BOOTS DIRECTLY TO THE DESKTOP. So, obviously, Microsoft already has that capability somewhere in the existing code. It's just a matter of time before someone uncovers it. My guess is some Registry entry?
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #485
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I do not believe you can choose a new drive when upgrading. It's either upgrade in-place where it's at or do a clean installation on the SSD.
Thanks, oh well. Probably could use a clean start on that thing anyway, though not really looking forward to futzing with codecs again lol.
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Old 12-14-2012, 12:57 PM   #486
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I'm sure it won't be long before some enterprising hacker uncovers the baked-in method of booting directly to the desktop, i.e. booting up and not even seeing the Metro/Modern Start Screen.

Several times, I have used the Win8 upgrade media to do fresh installs. By design, Microsoft won't let you activate such an installation, but there are workarounds -- two that I've found so far.

Until you do a workaround to get Win8 activated, IT BYPASSES THE START SCREEN AND BOOTS DIRECTLY TO THE DESKTOP. So, obviously, Microsoft already has that capability somewhere in the existing code. It's just a matter of time before someone uncovers it. My guess is some Registry entry?
#443 in this thread.
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Old 12-14-2012, 02:07 PM   #487
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#443 in this thread.
Hmmm. I don't consider pressing and holding the <enter> key to be very elegant or efficient, considering Windows can do it all on its own with no extra keystroke(s).
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Old 12-14-2012, 09:01 PM   #488
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But the fact is...it is.
it is easy to use to people familiar with computers, and have a good "know how". But given this to several of my customers, they absolutely hate it.

Give this to your mom, or dad, or grand parent. They will not even bother with it. It's just too confusing with the dual environment system, with a difficult transition between the 2 interfaces. For PC users, we can all figure it out.

The problem is that MS should've released 2 different OS's, Windows 8 metro, and Windows 8 standard. And if they want to mesh it together, they better do an amazing job. As it stands, it's really clumsy.
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:46 AM   #489
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I own a Convertible Ultrabook. So it is Windows 8 with Touchscreen.

My thoughts about Windows 8:

-First few weeks I used Start as default. I used IE there too. Now I only use it for checking weather, and opening pinned desktop apps and games. I mostly go straight to Desktop and use everything there, even Internet Explorer

Why? Shouldn't touchscreen make Windows 8 Modern/Metro UI useful?

Every freaking professional review states this. That the new UI on Windows 8 only makes sense on a Touchscreen.

It's not the "Modern UI" that makes Touchscreen useful. It's the CORE features that do. Like how the Touchscreen is so much more accurate than in previous OSes. Or how it has a much more advanced on-screen keyboard. Or that it has finger gestures for zooming, scrolling, and such for in-built applications and the web browser.

Reasons that make Modern UI useless in both traditional and touchscreen setups.

-IE in the Modern UI is featureless. No Home button, no menus, no favorites, no forward button. Compatibility is worse on the Modern UI IE compared to Desktop IE. How the heck does it make sense?!? That two applications seemingly same are different?!?
-Opening applications take lot more steps. Opening calculator makes me go back to the Modern UI, scroll, then click. I need to click on documents to look at hard drive space.
-Video player app in Modern UI is horrible too. I got a .avi file to watch, and it wouldn't play. Turns out that going to Desktop and using the built-in Windows Media Player works.

Conclusion: I am a enthusiast user that has a Touchscreen Convertible Ultrabook using Windows 8. I agree Touchscreen is a SUPERIOR method of input to Touchpad in vast majority of cases.* I agree that Modern UI sucks even as a Touchscreen user. Mouse isn't always viable in a device portable enough to carry around.

Its funny though how the people that complains least about a Touchscreen in Clamshell mode are the same ones that aren't very good with computers.

*It's way easier to directly click on a link than having to scroll, then click. Page scrolling is far easier to use with touch than with touchpad. Keyboard arrow keys are not always enough. I actually use all 3 forms of input, Touchscreen/Keyboard/Touchpad. My ratio of usage is 45/45/10. Touchscreen makes not having a mouse bearable, Keyboard is self explanatory, while Touchpad is useful in very few cases where mouse input is explicitely necessary. No such thing as a "Gorilla arm" because you aren't extending your arms so far, and you can use touch with elbows resting somewhere.
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Old 12-15-2012, 02:26 AM   #490
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I'm in the classic Windows environment more often than not, but for simple mail checking I've even switched to using "Mail" more often than not. If I need more options, I still have my Outlook 2010 install but it's not needed most often, and Mail is far more visually pleasing. I love simplicity in UIs.
I've seen lot of responses like this, all over the web from varying websites and articles. But there are lot many that think the opposite, especially when they have mouse and keyboard.

The Metro apps are severely crippled versions of their Desktop brothers. They didn't have to make it that way. They didn't need to offer the strength of the OS without bringing so much of the weaknesses.

Here's what I would have done:

1. Take Windows 8
2. Kill the Start and bring back the Start Menu, just to please users
3. Do some UI change, like they did from XP to Vista and 7
4. Keep ALL the gestures, and even the Charms Bar

4.a. Left Swipe would switch between applications, or even between tabs. All in desktop. That would allow Touchscreen users to have a easy switch method
b. Right Swipe would still show Charms Bar, but with new functions. For example, Settings would allow you to go change Region, Language, UI. Also, Charms Bar would have direct way to get to Control Panel.
c. UP and Bottom Swipe would show options or infos about the application in front.
d. Allow users to disable settings to use it like Windows 7 if they want. Also give an option that can be optimized for touch, and non-touch. For example, you may not want the swipe gesture or charms bar as a mouse user.
e. What I think is THE most important. The ability to PIN apps and programs onto the desktop background itself. And just like in Modern UI, it would have the ability for you to create categories so you can easily arrange things. Just like in Modern UI, you'd be able to scroll and zoom in and out to see your applications at once.
f. Settings to switch between single click for touch and double click for non-touch on opening applications.
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Old 12-15-2012, 03:42 AM   #491
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yeah separate OS's. Leave modern UI alone just for touch screens, and traditional for people who wanna build high end gaming desktops.

The transition is too confusing for the most part for it to be a good experience.

How mean, to print an email, you have to use the charms bar. Sure you'll get use to it, but in desktop it's not the same. I guess overall, the consistency is just not there. You have to learn at least 2 different ways to use the OS.
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Old 12-15-2012, 05:46 AM   #492
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Originally Posted by wpcoe View Post
I'm sure it won't be long before some enterprising hacker uncovers the baked-in method of booting directly to the desktop, i.e. booting up and not even seeing the Metro/Modern Start Screen.

Several times, I have used the Win8 upgrade media to do fresh installs. By design, Microsoft won't let you activate such an installation, but there are workarounds -- two that I've found so far.

Until you do a workaround to get Win8 activated, IT BYPASSES THE START SCREEN AND BOOTS DIRECTLY TO THE DESKTOP. So, obviously, Microsoft already has that capability somewhere in the existing code. It's just a matter of time before someone uncovers it. My guess is some Registry entry?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majic 7 View Post
#443 in this thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpcoe View Post
Hmmm. I don't consider pressing and holding the <enter> key to be very elegant or efficient, considering Windows can do it all on its own with no extra keystroke(s).
EUREKA! I think I found it: How to skip Start Screen natively without using any third-party tool

Works like a charm (no pun intended), and so far I see no unintended consequences.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:45 PM   #493
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just finished my install....any guides out there for trying to get used to the changes?
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Old 12-17-2012, 12:24 PM   #494
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just finished my install....any guides out there for trying to get used to the changes?
in the free section there is a link to a free copy of windows 8 for dummies
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Old 12-17-2012, 01:42 PM   #495
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just finished my install....any guides out there for trying to get used to the changes?
There are apps in the store designed for that.
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:03 PM   #496
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Start8 FTW

boots right into the desktop - best $5 I've spent in a long time
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Old 12-19-2012, 09:09 AM   #497
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Found my first bug, my fingerprint reader doesn't work after suspend or sleep. A well known bug apparently.

But on the positive side, I've noticed that my battery time has improved.
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Old 12-20-2012, 10:47 AM   #498
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Still haven't fooled around with it much as its my media/data storage machine that I mostly access stuff from on other pcs, but the q900 series quad core system seems to be running smoother with 8 than xp.
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Old 12-26-2012, 05:18 AM   #499
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I wonder what Windows Blue will be then.

In my mind I reckon they'll add more desktop features to Metro so it's not as "jarring"
My biggest problem with Win 8 is too many clicks with overly simplified software.

I actually prefer Windows 8 with M+B, right clicking is a must for me and I think Microsoft needs to remember power users because those features/options trickle down over time to consumers.

I remember showing my girlfriend ctrl+V then ctrl+s to save screenshots when using skype and it definitely made the whole process a lot easier for her.\

same principle.
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Old 12-26-2012, 10:37 AM   #500
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Posts: 18,000
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Windows blue to my knowledge is simply a change in how windows version updates are issued and handled. You essentially buy an upgrade disk for a low price similar to apple's releases. They don't change the entire ui and whatnot with every release. Its more minor updates similar to a service pack but with a little bit more value added software included.

Correct me if I am wrong anyone.
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