To: Atheists/Agnostics etc.

[Rob M.]

Originally Posted by alzan

That which can be asserted without evidence, ("God is real") can also be dismissed without evidence.

I'll live and let live when the religionists do likewise. As long as they persist in trying to influence local, state and federal laws that affect us all they'll be my eternal foe.

"Around Perditions rim will I chase thee."
"From Hell's heart, I stab at thee"

That's fine and I can level with that. They should be out of Law period.

However, what people really want is for you to "show them God", or show them some sort of obvious sign. Sorry, I can't do that. Who am I to produce God at my whim? Who am I to do that? Nobody....

Isn't there a more unreasonable request to make... for someone to call down God?

There is archeological evidence affirming events talked about in the Bible. If people want to make silly false equivalencies (flying unicorns, FSM) find me someone that can cooberate that. There are historians both past and present that do with the Bible, even some of history's most respected minds (Issac Newton, but I am waiting for people to discredit that by saying he didn't have the internet to "check facts"), however, historians actually visited those places mentioned in the Bible and saw the evidence first-hand, untampered with, not scewed by internet "facts". People will ignore that, largely because they don't want to consider things that will humble their pride.

In short, if people want to be "shown God", hitch a ride on the next rocket into space and go up until you can't go anymore, then tell us whether you saw God or not. I sure can't show him to you.

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by Rob M.

Not directed at you, but the best way to lure a bigot out of hiding (on this forum, anyway) is to simpy use God as good bait.

The sheer frothing at the mouth by the non-religious to attack a believer on a personal level, and his beliefs, is a good indicator of why the world has plenty of hate to go around for decades and centuries to come.

Our Founding Father are turing in their graves as we speak.

To address what you wrote, I totally agree with that if you come to a person with something you want him to believe, you have to show him why he should. I never argued that. The issue I see is that non-believers make equal claims with zero evidence. "God doesn't exist". How do you know? "He just doesn't".. no evidence offered, so you have none. What's the difference?


As far as keeping it personal goes, sure, religious people have been ridiculed for decades... aint nothing new. It hasn't stopped them. I'd say they have very thick skin and are resilient to bear up under hateful ridicule over the decades. What doesn't kill you makes you stronger. Our world has progressed becasue people don't give in to bigots and their limitless bigotry...

The absense of a God is the proof one doesnt exist. That is why everyone, but you apparently, knows the burden of proof lies on the believer of imaginary things, not the person who doesnt believe in your imaginary things.

You guys started it with this God crap, so put up or shut up.

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

Having no purpose is obviously bad.

To you.

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

Anyway they consider suicide selfish toward your loved ones. I'll just start giving the actual catholic view on things, minus the catholic idiot stuff where they lost their way.

Like t-rex's teeth were for eating coconuts because none of gods creatures would be intelligently designed to eat each other. You know that end of the story, lol. And I don't agree with that aspect of the religious group.

But yup. Things are officially off the deep end for the Atheists.

So people who commit suicide dont go to hell? In your belief.

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

Red herrings, ad hominem, argumentum ad ignorantiam...you repley contains everything....except the documentation for this "atheist group" you talk about.

Unless you have strated the language...besides logic?

I ask you once again:

What atheist group?!

Will more lies follow...or will OverVolt change his modus operandi...and be honest for once...stay tuned.

(And funny how it always return the "reversing the burden of proof" in defense of superstition )

But dont you know. The burden of proof lies on you, the non-believer of this so called "athiest group" that he made up.

LOL @ OverVolt

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

The Old Testament isn't all that great. Lots of Lineage, that type of thing was important a long time ago to establish credibility. But not anymore.

The books in the New Testament are still pretty insightful. Religion has no place in a Biology book so I agree with the evolution arguments. I see it as a non-threat to religion though. The other guy was complaining so much about putting words in his mouth, lol. The same is done to me. I'm pretty sure the intelligent design folks are a minority, like PETA.

You are so out of date. We are up to the "Super New Ultra Improved Testament" now. You are like 4 revisions ago.

Get with the times man.

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by Rob M.

That's fine and I can level with that. They should be out of Law period.

However, what people really want is for you to "show them God", or show them some sort of obvious sign. Sorry, I can't do that. Who am I to produce God at my whim? Who am I to do that? Nobody....

Isn't there a more unreasonable request to make... for someone to call down God?

There is archeological evidence affirming events talked about in the Bible. If people want to make silly false equivalencies (flying unicorns, FSM) find me someone that can cooberate that. There are historians both past and present that do with the Bible, even some of history's most respected minds (Issac Newton, but I am waiting for people to discredit that by saying he didn't have the internet to "check facts"), however, historians actually visited those places mentioned in the Bible and saw the evidence first-hand, untampered with, not scewed by internet "facts". People will ignore that, largely because they don't want to consider things that will humble their pride.

In short, if people want to be "shown God", hitch a ride on the next rocket into space and go up until you can't go anymore, then tell us whether you saw God or not. I sure can't show him to you.

Ok so now prove all the stuff in the bible that isnt equated to God unleashing his wrath, err i mean "natural disasters" onto earth? You know, "the magic stuff" that really makes the book look foolish.

[qliveur]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

Having no purpose is obviously bad.

Slaves have a purpose. Religion is just slavery through brainwashing.

What's my purpose? Whatever the fuck I want it to be. See how liberating that is?

Originally Posted by Rob M.

There is archeological evidence affirming events talked about in the Bible.

Such as?

[sourceninja]

Originally Posted by Annisman*

Human beings. Which, I don't care what Webster's says about humans (or the Discovery channel) Humans aren't animals. An animal is what runs around pooping on my lawn

You don't live in the same part of town I do...

[Gibsons]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

I'm pretty sure the intelligent design folks are a minority, like PETA.

I don't know about their numbers but they sure do like getting on school boards and trying to influence curriculum.

[sourceninja]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

"Jesus will save us from ourselves" has turned into "Science will save us from ourselves" IMO. Both are still beliefs which is why the Atheists knocking on blind faith is so ironic.

I am an atheist, I don't believe science can save us from ourselves. I look at trends and come to the conclusion that we are doomed to extinction. Hopefully not within my lifetime.

[Lonbjerg]

Originally Posted by Gibsons

I don't know about their numbers but they sure do like getting on school boards and trying to influence curriculum.

All religious fucktards know you have to infect children at an early age...before the brain is fully developed...and logic and reason kick fully in....otherwise they might reject the mumbo-jumbo as...mumbo-jumbo

[Gibsons]

Originally Posted by Annisman*

Pride was the fall of Satan, the fall of Adam and Eve, the list goes on and on. You are very correct in saying that we have a superiority complex, it is our greatest flaw and the reason for this fallen world.

We all think that we know better. In many senses, atheism could be looked at as the total epitomy of pride.

Interesting point. Where could we find an example of baseless, foolish pride?

Ah! Here we are:

Originally Posted by Annisman*

Human beings. Which, I don't care what Webster's says about humans (or the Discovery channel) Humans aren't animals. An animal is what runs around pooping on my lawn

Atheists hold no such illusions. Who's the prideful one again?

[ShadowOfMyself]

Didnt read the 3 pages so this was probably said before but honestly, I pity you for having that line of thinking

I live because I enjoy life... Do I need any other reason?

Also this:

What's my purpose? Whatever the fuck I want it to be. See how liberating that is?

You will never know what it is to be free until you get rid of that crutch called god

[Paul98]

So OverVolt, what made you go from believing in god to not, then back to believing again?

[Jeff7]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

You guys are being ridiculous and you know it. Maybe people are just really that uninformed I dunno. I went to catholic school for 12years. I think catholic's got too political, and the church is kind of on the wrong path. But aside from that car accidents don't muddle in "God's domain" they're just accidents. If you intentionally try to kill someone in an accident that is kinda fucked up. Please re-read your own posts cause its getting ridiculous.
...

I should have elaborated on the murder/accident thing:

- Some people have the little "God is my co-pilot" stickers in there.
- Some people say that your time of death is decided by God.

So those ideas present some problems:
- If God is your co-pilot, or is otherwise watching over you, you are theoretically immune to harm while driving - unless God wants you to get injured, or wants you to injure someone else. Then you've got issues with free will: If God has plans for you, then your decisions have already been predetermined.
If none of that is the case, then God isn't your co-pilot, and he's indifferent about what you do.

- Along those lines, if your time of death is decided by God, then God is deciding who's going to murder who, or who's going to get killed by someone else in an accident. (And really, it isn't really even possible for an accident to happen with a deity that knows everything.)

Either way, given the idea that God determines when it's "your time," then no one's death can be accidental - meaning that car accidents, murders, cancer deaths, fatal heart attacks, or fatal illnesses are all God's doing.
That, or else those people are just wrong that God determines time of death, or co-piloting of vehicles.

Originally Posted by OverVolt

Anyway they consider suicide selfish toward your loved ones. I'll just start giving the actual catholic view on things, minus the catholic idiot stuff where they lost their way.

Like t-rex's teeth were for eating coconuts because none of gods creatures would be intelligently designed to eat each other. You know that end of the story, lol. And I don't agree with that aspect of the religious group.

Let's say you're committing suicide because all your loved ones have died in some accident or of illness or some such thing, and that there is no one left who really cares much for you, other than that you're a moving body at an assembly line? If you reach that point, is it ok then?

But yup. Things are officially off the deep end for the Atheists.

And I'd call Invisible Magic Sky Man and his not-quite-dead-self-son to be off the deep end.

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

All religious fucktards know you have to infect children at an early age...before the brain is fully developed...and logic and reason kick fully in....otherwise they might reject the mumbo-jumbo as...mumbo-jumbo

And for those who reach the capability of critical thinking, but which aren't able to break free of the years-old indoctrination, they try to re-imagine the religion to mold it to fit with the observed world.
"Well maybe when he said 'day' he didn't mean 'day.'" - a distinction that only came about because of scientific discoveries (observations) which said that the Universe was not made like that, nor over that time frame.

[OverVolt]

Originally Posted by soulcougher73

So people who commit suicide dont go to hell? In your belief.

Yea they do go to hell

[Theb]

Originally Posted by Annisman*

That's a very thought provoking quote!

Anyways, to answer your question, personally I beleive in heaven, a place with no pain, no tears, no more physical body (my body is always breaking down) A place where God's presence is complete, where other beleivers are, where there are streets of gold. Who wouldn't want to go there !

I think gold would be an inferior road surface. It's too soft.

[jhansman]

I will never understand why people argue over belief. You wanna argue facts and their implications, let's go. But belief? Please. Go believe what you want, but for gosh sakes, keep it to yourself. These morons who just have to proclaim their every philosophy and belief on their car bumpers must be the most insecure creatures on the planet.

[JM Aggie08]

Originally Posted by Lonbjerg

All religious fucktards know you have to infect children at an early age...before the brain is fully developed...and logic and reason kick fully in....otherwise they might reject the mumbo-jumbo as...mumbo-jumbo

Your avatar gives me a craving for plums.

[dighn]

Originally Posted by jhansman

I will never understand why people argue over belief. You wanna argue facts and their implications, let's go. But belief? Please. Go believe what you want, but for gosh sakes, keep it to yourself. These morons who just have to proclaim their every philosophy and belief on their car bumpers must be the most insecure creatures on the planet.

your stance is a fallacy we must argue over our beliefs.

[soulcougher73]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

Yea they do go to hell

So then they did go and plug the loophole of suicide not going to heaven then. That is why religious people dont kill themselves because without the penalty of hell you guys would be offing yourselves left and right.

Damn them for plugging the loophole.

[Tweak155]

Originally Posted by soulcougher73

The absense of a God is the proof one doesnt exist. That is why everyone, but you apparently, knows the burden of proof lies on the believer of imaginary things, not the person who doesnt believe in your imaginary things.

You guys started it with this God crap, so put up or shut up.

Selectively responding - but if I showed you a plastic shovel with no markings, you wouldn't argue me someone made it (unless you're dilusional) even if I couldn't prove to you who did.

So while I agree the burden of proof is on the claimer, you're being somewhat narrow minded. You can try and minimalize his belief by claiming it is imaginary, but where's your proof that it is, in fact, imaginary?

Just to be clear I'm not taking any sides, but your response is very ironic.

[AstroManLuca]

Originally Posted by OverVolt

Yea they do go to hell

I remember hearing something a while ago about how in medieval times, people who wanted to commit suicide but avoid the suicide-gets-you-sent-to-hell thing, would instead kill a child and turn themselves in. They'd be put to death but not before asking forgiveness. Which, theoretically, was their ticket into heaven.

Personally I think the whole "reward in the next life" thing actually takes something away from life. I feel like you can't spend too much time looking forward to something that may or may not happen after you die. You have to enjoy life while you're living it. But then again, I don't believe in God. For someone who does believe, maybe it helps them.

[alzan]

Originally Posted by Rob M.

That's fine and I can level with that. They should be out of Law period.

However, what people really want is for you to "show them God", or show them some sort of obvious sign. Sorry, I can't do that. Who am I to produce God at my whim? Who am I to do that? Nobody....

Isn't there a more unreasonable request to make... for someone to call down God?

There is archeological evidence affirming events talked about in the Bible. If people want to make silly false equivalencies (flying unicorns, FSM) find me someone that can cooberate that. There are historians both past and present that do with the Bible, even some of history's most respected minds (Issac Newton, but I am waiting for people to discredit that by saying he didn't have the internet to "check facts"), however, historians actually visited those places mentioned in the Bible and saw the evidence first-hand, untampered with, not scewed by internet "facts". People will ignore that, largely because they don't want to consider things that will humble their pride.

In short, if people want to be "shown God", hitch a ride on the next rocket into space and go up until you can't go anymore, then tell us whether you saw God or not. I sure can't show him to you.

Evidence points to a historical Jesus this is true. But was he G-d made man? Highly debatable. Scholars have debated for years and will continue to do so on on both the range of different histories in the Bible, most of them not archaeological.

But none of this evidence points to a G-d; it simply points to peoples interpretations of second, third or fourth-hand stories as concerns the New Testament. Scholars date the books, writings and letters that comprise the NT as being anywhere from 2 to 8 decades after the life of Jesus.

Also, believers as well as non-believers will shut out facts and not consider things that will humble their pride.

As was stated by other poster(s); it is the believers that first foisted this idea of G-d onto the rest of the world, it really is up to them to "put up or shut up". Accept the fact that when the only way you can assert something is by faith, you're admitting that it can't stand on it's own merit.