Parent accidentally shoots son in parking lot

[halik]

Originally Posted by spidey07

The problem with your thinking is "let".

You have no say in what I can own.

The state has many compelling interests to regulate firearms, explosives, nuclear material and/or amateur fission attempts, destructive devices etc. That argument is just foolish.

[Gerle]

Originally Posted by shira

Handled properly, dynamite is very safe. So we should let everyone own dynamite.

Perhaps not dynamite, not sure what type, but many farmers use explosives.
Just another tool with many uses, good and bad.

[halik]

Originally Posted by spidey07

Father's fault, broke the 4 rules. He's got to live with it, that's punishment enough.

You don't let the muzzle cover something you don't want destroyed. And you keep your bugger hook off the bang stick unless you intend to destroy what's it's pointed at.

Handled properly guns are very safe.

This + you should really own a gun with external safety/decocking lever. That glock trigger safety thing is only really good for service weapons that aren't expect to move out of the holster unless you're engaging someone.

For guns that you handle all the time (house -> glove box -> holster -> glove box -> house ), one accidental grab or snag and boom.

[DucatiMonster696]

Originally Posted by techs

Think of the ten dumbest people you ran into this week.
Then imagine them carrying guns.

Imagine them driving 2 ton vehicles doing 20+ miles an hour. Yet somehow I don't see you foaming at the mouth over the issue of preventable accidental car deaths which happen in far greater numbers.

[shira]

Originally Posted by DucatiMonster696

Imagine them driving 2 ton vehicles doing 20+ miles an hour.

The difference is that 2-ton vehicles provide us with numerous benefits every single day. Yet handguns in the hands of private citizens provide essentially no benefits.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "one million people every year" successfully defend themselves using guns. So how come no one knows anyone who's successfully defended themselves with a gun?

[DucatiMonster696]

Originally Posted by shira

The difference is that 2-ton vehicles provide us with numerous benefits every single day. Yet handguns in the hands of private citizens provide essentially no benefits.

Correction.

They provide benefits which you do not automatically acknowledge because it doesn't suit your personal opinion on firearms.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "one million people every year" successfully defend themselves using guns. So how come no one knows anyone who's successfully defended themselves with a gun?

Because you used a fallacy laden anecdotal argument.

[OverVolt]

Originally Posted by DCal430

Another senseless gun death. People wonder why I support gun bans.

I'm responsible though. I'm excellent at keeping it pointed in a safe direction, etc. He had a round in the chamber with a 7yr/o around. Its just complete insanity.

I never "assume" its unloaded unless I visually check it and then dry fire it in a safe direction, like you are supposed to.

Often I'll do it when I put it away and when I take it back out. I don't care that its stupid, its just habit for me. I've never made a mistake thus far either. Not everyone is that stupid.

Agree with handled properly guns are safe. People don't have respect for doing things the right way anymore.

[monovillage]

Originally Posted by shira

The difference is that 2-ton vehicles provide us with numerous benefits every single day. Yet handguns in the hands of private citizens provide essentially no benefits.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, "one million people every year" successfully defend themselves using guns. So how come no one knows anyone who's successfully defended themselves with a gun?

Here you go chump.

"Two killed at alleged Washington pot house on first day of legal weed"

http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/n...,5128410.story

Two suspected robbers believed to be targeting an alleged home-based marijuana growing operation were killed in a shootout on the first day of legal marijuana in Washington state, authorities said.

The 35-year-old homeowner told detectives he shot the masked intruders Thursday after they broke into his home near Puyallup, Pierce County Sheriff spokesman Ed Troyer said, according Komonews.com. Troyer told the news outlet that the masked men most likely sought to grab the pot and maybe cash.

The Associated Press reported the secluded, luxury home had a security system, a private driveway and that the homeowner had motorcycles, boats and nice cars.

The homeowner and his 9-year-old son were not hurt. The homeowner, whose name was not released, was detained, at least pertaining to an illegal growing operation, Troyer told the wire service. He has since been released.

The marijuana at the home was of large quantity, much more than one would need for medicinal use, Troyer said.

Evil robbers were trying to victimize this poor drug dealing father and he killed them both!

[QueBert]

Originally Posted by spidey07

I pull the handgun under the couch is what I do. Or grab the one next to me which is everyday carry. I'm seconds away from a loaded ready to fire weapon anywhere in my house.

To me it's like having a pocket knife. Don't have to go get it, they are everywhere.

seconds away huh? Do you know how many rounds an intruder who caught you off guard could get off in those few seconds?

a few seconds is a lifetime when a person has a weapon drawn on you.

[irishScott]

*sigh*. Another one of these threads.

1. The gun is not at fault here. If it was then this would be a story about a manufacturing defect.

2. Guns do help people, and to whomever said "well why does nobody know anyone who's defended themselves with a gun?" Well moron, I do. One of my close friends caught a guy breaking through his window. Drove him off with a revolver, never fired a shot. I also know a gunless friend who had his apartment broken into, with him in it, and he was tied up at knifepoint while the place was robbed. I can also quote a myriad of news articles.

3. Rule number 1 of car safety is wearing a seatbelt. Rule number 1 of gun safety is don't point it at anything you wouldn't want dead, even when unloaded. This dad didn't follow rule number one, much like not making sure his kid's seatbelt was buckled. Shit happened. What a shock.

4. Guns do make killing easier. That's their purpose, that's one reason a lot of us own them. Don't try to argue otherwise. The nature of this killing, however, is determined by the user. Not all life is worth saving at any cost, not all killing is bad.

5. There is a valid car analogy: Would you punish every driver in a America to stop drunk driving? Would you support bans of SUVs and Hummers (big, overly dangerous to other cars, typically black in color, something you don't "need") and limiting their max weight and speed (magazine bans)?

Conclusion: Gun control, as supported by all such efforts in the United States to date, is an exercise in punishing others to prevent an extremely small number of deaths. In fact, despite the highest gun sales in recorded history just last month, average crime is still going down. Now you can speculate that guns are somehow slowing that descent, but there's no hard or soft evidence of it, and it certainly isn't going the other way.

So quit your whining, and devote your energies to something more productive. In the meantime, I can guarantee you'll be thinking about, and fearing, that little gun in my pocket more than I ever will. I hope we meet someday and have a nice, friendly, good-natured discussion. So that when we walk away, I can tell you that I've had a gun my pocket the entire time, and blow your mind to kingdom come.

[shortylickens]

I made this point in the other thread but it got locked.

There are way too many folks who think they know what they're doing and really dont. They have the most accidents with guns. The problem with firearms is most accidents are fatal.

[Puddle Jumper]

Originally Posted by QueBert

seconds away huh? Do you know how many rounds an intruder who caught you off guard could get off in those few seconds?

a few seconds is a lifetime when a person has a weapon drawn on you.

Most people have houses with more than one room, I know if I was watching tv I would easily have enough time to grab a gun from under the couch before anyone breaking in could make it to the room I am in.

[JTsyo]

Loughrey told them he didn't realize there was a bullet still in the chamber.

:faceplam;

Father doesn't need to be jailed. Should lose his firearms license though since he clearly doesn't follow gun safety.

[Londo_Jowo]

Originally Posted by JTsyo

:faceplam;

Father doesn't need to be jailed. Should lose his firearms license though since he clearly doesn't follow gun safety.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania doesn't require a permit for purchase. Open carry doesn't require a license, just concealed carry.

[xj0hnx]

Originally Posted by halik

This + you should really own a gun with external safety/decocking lever. That glock trigger safety thing is only really good for service weapons that aren't expect to move out of the holster unless you're engaging someone.

For guns that you handle all the time (house -> glove box -> holster -> glove box -> house ), one accidental grab or snag and boom.

The Glock system is unbelievably safe, it if impossible for it to fire ...unless the trigger is pulled, which is the whole point.

[halik]

Originally Posted by xj0hnx

The Glock system is unbelievably safe, it if impossible for it to fire ...unless the trigger is pulled, which is the whole point.

Yeah that's not a safety by definition; it only really prevents drop-inertia accidental discharge.

If you can disengage the "safety" with the same operation as actually firing the gun, it defeats the purpose of having it as a safety. It's just bad design in terms of human factors; those guns don't really have a safety when you think about it - only a system that prevents drop discharge.

[Ackmed]

Originally Posted by shira

Handled properly, dynamite is very safe. So we should let everyone own dynamite.

Handled properly, plutonium is very safe. So we should let everyone own plutonium.

Both are terrible examples. Dynamite can get very unstable all by it self depending on the climate it is in. I've dealt with dynamite on dozens of occasions, and think I know far more about it than you do. Plutonium can also get unstable by itself.

If you're going to make an argument, don't make an idiotic one.

[WackyDan]

Originally Posted by Gerle

A clip, what do you shoot, an M1 Garand? Magazine.

Not to mention the mentality of everyone carries a semi-auto. My daily driver is now a S&W J frame revolver...

Hidden hammer, no safety, and properly carried in a proper holster, completely safe.

[WackyDan]

Originally Posted by QueBert

seconds away huh? Do you know how many rounds an intruder who caught you off guard could get off in those few seconds?

a few seconds is a lifetime when a person has a weapon drawn on you.

The locked doors and windows are locked to protect the potential intruders, not the occupants... and thus the noise of entry is more than enough time to be prepared with what ever weapon you have at your disposal.

[shortylickens]

You cant really shoot an M1 or M1A directly from the clip anyways. Its gotta be pushed all the way down and then removed. Or single shot, but again, the clip has to be out.

[Geosurface]

Clearly this extremely rare fluke of an accident means we should ban all guns for all people, no matter how responsible they are.

[xj0hnx]

Originally Posted by halik

Yeah that's not a safety by definition; it only really prevents drop-inertia accidental discharge.

If you can disengage the "safety" with the same operation as actually firing the gun, it defeats the purpose of having it as a safety. It's just bad design in terms of human factors; those guns don't really have a safety when you think about it - only a system that prevents drop discharge.

It is as safe is the person using it is competent, and following the rules of shooting. It will NEVER go off unless someone pulls the trigger.

It's amazing how many "accidental", or negligent discharges happen on firearms WITH "safeties" it really makes the whole argument for them retarded since they rely on those same human factors to be effective. Safeties don't just engage themselves.

[dawheat]

Not sure what the normal punishment is for negligent vehicular manslaughter (but not DWI).

This father should face similar punishment. Causing a preventable death through negligence should not be free of criminal punishment, no matter how sorry he is.

[monovillage]

Originally Posted by Geosurface

Clearly this extremely rare fluke of an accident means we should ban all guns for all people, no matter how responsible they are.

I'd rather be shot in my parking lot instead of my parking structure, it's much less painful.

[blankslate]

Originally Posted by JTsyo

:faceplam; Father doesn't need to be jailed.

Should lose his firearms license though since he clearly doesn't follow gun safety.

Originally Posted by xj0hnx

The Glock system is unbelievably safe, it if impossible for it to fire ...unless the trigger is pulled, which is the whole point.

Was the firearm involved a glock?

This does bring up points if it was though.

Why wasn't the negligent ass watching where the firearm was pointed?

Why was his finger on the trigger?

and why didn't he perform the proper inspection of the chamber before leaving the store counter?

I have no sympathy or empathy for this idiot. He deserves what he gets. His victim and the mother and grandparents of the victim deserve infinitely more sympathy.

As the other thread stated incidents like this cause people to clamor for gun control and ruin it for firearms owners who aren't idiots.