Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Consumer Electronics > Mobile Devices & Gadgets

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-06-2012, 06:57 PM   #26
ImDonly1
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,145
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khha4113 View Post
On other news, according to Slashgear, T-Mobile will stop offering subsidized phones in 2013, so you have pay full price. However, they'll also introduce value plans that are much cheaper than current plans.
They will offer phone financing. So you pay a certain amount each month until the phone is paid off. Seems the same as before, except once you pay the phone off your monthly cost is lowered.
ImDonly1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 07:13 PM   #27
TuxDave
Lifer
 
TuxDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lupi View Post
Plus, T-Mobile said that 80% of its activations last quarter were for Value Plans, which suggests people are actually into those plans the most.

Sounds like a rather narrow sighted view; part of the reason for this is the parent company saying they wanted to dump you and the unknown results from the new merger. Unless value plan prices become substantially cheaper, and will full service not limited text or data like many are, I don't see this going well if all the other main carriers continue status quo.
I read that as just going 100% unsubsidized which ended up being $20/month cheaper (and financing so you can get something that resembled a subsidized plan except that you don't pay the increased monthly rate forever). For me, that's the #1 reason to go to T-mobile. I really like the new plan. If the value plan is even cheaper than that, oh boy!
__________________
post count = post count + 0.999.....
(\__/)
(='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(")signature to help him gain world domination.
TuxDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:10 PM   #28
dagamer34
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,540
Default

So many stories about how "T-Mobile is ending subsidies" which is mostly inaccurate and mostly link-baiting. A far more accurate, though dull headline is "T-Mobile separating phone subsidy from monthly plan cost" which isn't as short, not as snazzy, but a lot closer to the truth.
dagamer34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:26 PM   #29
bearxor
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 6,359
Default

I wonder when iPhone users on TMobile can finally start taking advantage of Visual Voicemail.
__________________
This post paid for by the committee to re-invade Vietnam.
bearxor is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:30 PM   #30
dagamer34
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bearxor View Post
I wonder when iPhone users on TMobile can finally start taking advantage of Visual Voicemail.
My guess is that T-Mobile doesn't start selling the iPhone until they've got a sizeable 1900Mhz HSPA+ and LTE footprint in most major cities. Using an iPhone on EDGE is not enjoyable.
dagamer34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 08:49 PM   #31
Ravynmagi
Platinum Member
 
Ravynmagi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 2,566
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post
So many stories about how "T-Mobile is ending subsidies" which is mostly inaccurate and mostly link-baiting. A far more accurate, though dull headline is "T-Mobile separating phone subsidy from monthly plan cost" which isn't as short, not as snazzy, but a lot closer to the truth.
Don't really see what T-Mobile is switching to still a form of "subsidizing" though. You'll be put on a payment plan, that isn't subsidizing.
__________________
Intel i5-2500K 4.0GHz, 16GB, ASUS P8Z68-V/GEN3, GTX 680, Intel 520 Series 180GB
Seasonic M12 700 watt, Cooler Master Cosmos S, Scythe Gentle Typhoon 120mm fans

Windows: Dell XPS 12, Dell Venue 8 Pro, Nokia Icon, Nokia Lumia 521
Android: Galaxy Note 3, Nexus 5, Nexus 4, Nexus 7 2013, LG G Pad 8.3, Nook HD+
iOS: iPad Mini with Retina, iPhone 5S
Ravynmagi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 09:41 PM   #32
lothar
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zerogear View Post
I hope they don't get screwed by Apple like Sprint did.
They won't.
Unlike the idiots at Sprint that stupidly mortgaged their future on the iPhone and won't make a profit on it until 2015(4 years from when Sprint signed their deal with Apple), this deal will be accretive to T-Mobile's EBITDA and operating Free Cash Flow earnings.

In other words, T-Mobile will report a profit on this deal starting by the end of the 2014 year.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusTheBrewer View Post
If you make it to age 30 and have never been arrested you're either still living in your parents basement, part of the 1% or, both.
lothar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 09:51 PM   #33
lothar
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khha4113 View Post
On other news, according to Slashgear, T-Mobile will stop offering subsidized phones in 2013, so you have pay full price. However, they'll also introduce value plans that are much cheaper than current plans.
Good news.
The death of the crappy US subsidy model begins?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusTheBrewer View Post
If you make it to age 30 and have never been arrested you're either still living in your parents basement, part of the 1% or, both.
lothar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 10:13 PM   #34
lothar
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravynmagi View Post
Don't really see what T-Mobile is switching to still a form of "subsidizing" though. You'll be put on a payment plan, that isn't subsidizing.
It's not subsidizing.
With Verizon, AT&T, or Sprint...Whether you sign a contract or not and get a new phone, you still pay the same monthly bill.
With T-Mobile's new plan, you have the option to pay out of pocket for a lower monthly bill, or pay a higher monthly bill if you want to buy their phone at a discount to finance it.

T-Mobile's new version is not a form of subsidizing because you're paying the full cost of the phone eventually plus interest.

Put it this way...
On T-Mobile's old plan: Buy Nexus 4 at $200 with contract price + pay an extra $20/month on top of your regular phone bill for the 24 months.
On T-Mobile's new plan: Buy a Nexus for $350 at the Play Store and pay your regular phone bill for 24 months.

$200 + $480 extra to finance that Nexus 4 on the old plan or pay $350 with the Value plan once and be done with.

Go to T-Mobile's website and compare the Classic vs. Value plans.

On the Value plan(BYOD): T-Mobile® SIM Card + Unlimited Value—Talk + Text and Unlimited Nationwide 4G $69.99 per month.

Versus on the old Classic plan with subsidized phones: T-Mobile® SIM Card + Unlimited Value—Talk + Text and Unlimited Nationwide 4G, $89.99 per month. And you still have to pay whatever the subsidized pricing of your phone is in addition to that $20/month extra for 24 months.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusTheBrewer View Post
If you make it to age 30 and have never been arrested you're either still living in your parents basement, part of the 1% or, both.
lothar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 11:50 PM   #35
magomago
Lifer
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,659
Default

I hope it doesn't kill our great speeds
__________________
Heat 19-0-0
magomago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 12:08 AM   #36
TuxDave
Lifer
 
TuxDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magomago View Post
I hope it doesn't kill our great speeds
Really? Anyone who has that immediate reaction strikes me as a little odd in the head.

Anything that helps T-mobile's popularity has a chance to kill your "great speeds". You can say that the Nexus 4 risked your great speeds because the most popular thing to do was to buy the cheap phone and go on an unsubsidized plan like T-mobile. Same thing with the Galaxy Nexus when it was cheap.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless you're willing to pay T-mobile a TON more than what you are now, it's only inevitable that you'll have to start sharing your bandwidth if you want T-mobile to survive. And to survive, it has to attract more customers.
__________________
post count = post count + 0.999.....
(\__/)
(='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(")signature to help him gain world domination.

Last edited by TuxDave; 12-07-2012 at 12:11 AM.
TuxDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 12:10 AM   #37
lothar
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 6,470
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxDave View Post
Anything that helps T-mobile's popularity has a chance to kill your great speeds. You can say that the Nexus 4 risked your great speeds because the most popular thing to do was to buy the cheap phone and go on an unsubsidized plan like T-mobile. Same thing with the Galaxy Nexus when it was cheap.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless you're willing to pay T-mobile a TON more than what you are now, it's only inevitable that you'll have to start sharing your bandwidth if you want T-mobile to survive.
Except the Nexus 4 and Galaxy Nexus doesn't sell millions of units like an iPhone does.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnusTheBrewer View Post
If you make it to age 30 and have never been arrested you're either still living in your parents basement, part of the 1% or, both.
lothar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 12:12 AM   #38
TuxDave
Lifer
 
TuxDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lothar View Post
Except the Nexus 4 and Galaxy Nexus doesn't sell millions of units like an iPhone does.
And T-mobile sells the SGS3. I heard that's a pretty popular phone too.

(I hope I'm right on that, didn't actually check)

It's a really silly argument.
__________________
post count = post count + 0.999.....
(\__/)
(='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(")signature to help him gain world domination.
TuxDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 12:15 AM   #39
abaez
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,147
Default

Also, will not be subsidized: http://gigaom.com/mobile/t-mobile-ce...one-subsidies/

God I hope this works. Would be a huge change.
abaez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 12:22 AM   #40
TuxDave
Lifer
 
TuxDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by abaez View Post
Also, will not be subsidized: http://gigaom.com/mobile/t-mobile-ce...one-subsidies/

God I hope this works. Would be a huge change.
Yeah, I would've been willing to try it....

... except cell phone reception is incredibly terrible in my home and so I bought a microcell off Craigslist. I think I'm locked in for life to AT&T.
__________________
post count = post count + 0.999.....
(\__/)
(='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(")signature to help him gain world domination.
TuxDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 09:19 AM   #41
SunnyD
Belgian Waffler
 
SunnyD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Waffle House
Posts: 31,104
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by khha4113 View Post
On other news, according to Slashgear, T-Mobile will stop offering subsidized phones in 2013, so you have pay full price. However, they'll also introduce value plans that are much cheaper than current plans.
Those Value Plans already exist. They're approximately $5-10 cheaper per month than their subsidy counterparts.

They have existed for about 2 years now. What T-Mo is doing is streamlining, they say that about 80% of their new activations over the last year have been on the Value Plan segment anyway.
__________________
It's a long story... and trust me, no, you really don't have time.
Need VPN? Cheap hosting? I can do that.
SunnyD is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 09:31 AM   #42
dagamer34
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,540
Default

There are plenty of iPhone 4/4S devices floating around on craigslist and eBay from people who upgrade every year on AT&T. The beneficial thing is that someone will be able to buy that device and get official support on T-Mobile and Apple. You'll get Visual Voicemail. You won't have to worry about setting up the APN. FaceTime should work out of the box. And on and on.

T-Mobile will be able to support the iPhone without having to pay it's stupidly expensive subsidy. It's a brilliant plan that avoids them going under because they didn't sell as many phones as they committed to like Sprint did (and I think will be their undoing).

Put another way, 5% of all T-Mobile customers want the iPhone (1.7/33 million) so badly that they are willing to put up with EDGE speeds. How many more customers do you think they'll get when they have access to DC-HSPA+ instead at amazing prices?
dagamer34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 10:46 AM   #43
lupi
Lifer
 
lupi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: duh, winning!
Posts: 25,073
Default

That's the thing, they are a little cheaper if you're happy getting a used or not so recent release phone that you buy; but they're not nearly cheap enough for all those that max out their handset renewals compared to standard cost structures. If multiple networks went this rouyte I could see if sticking, but this sounds more like them wanting to go as a national pay as you go vendor with its own network.
__________________
Rift Free Trial:

http://www.riftgame.com/en/products/...=ascend_invite
lupi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 10:53 AM   #44
magomago
Lifer
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 10,659
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuxDave View Post
Really? Anyone who has that immediate reaction strikes me as a little odd in the head.

Anything that helps T-mobile's popularity has a chance to kill your "great speeds". You can say that the Nexus 4 risked your great speeds because the most popular thing to do was to buy the cheap phone and go on an unsubsidized plan like T-mobile. Same thing with the Galaxy Nexus when it was cheap.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. Unless you're willing to pay T-mobile a TON more than what you are now, it's only inevitable that you'll have to start sharing your bandwidth if you want T-mobile to survive. And to survive, it has to attract more customers.
Oh i know its completely illogical

The reality is that most everyone who wants an iphone probably has one; we've gone through 5 generations of the phone, where the previous 2 (Iphone5, and iphone4s) have been on the top 3 carriers. I don't imagine a mass exodus of people to tmobile for the iphone it is now ubiquitous among all the major carriers.

I disagree with you about the Nexus 4; no one outside of the online world that I know is aware of this phone.

Anyways you are smart enough - i switched from Classic after almost 10 years to Value because I realized how much I could save, even if I bought a full price phone. And a Nexus4 (Or Galaxy Nexus as I was considering earlier) just makes the deal even sweeter.
__________________
Heat 19-0-0
magomago is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 11:00 AM   #45
dagamer34
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 2,540
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magomago View Post
Oh i know its completely illogical

The reality is that most everyone who wants an iphone probably has one; we've gone through 5 generations of the phone, where the previous 2 (Iphone5, and iphone4s) have been on the top 3 carriers. I don't imagine a mass exodus of people to tmobile for the iphone it is now ubiquitous among all the major carriers.

I disagree with you about the Nexus 4; no one outside of the online world that I know is aware of this phone.

Anyways you are smart enough - i switched from Classic after almost 10 years to Value because I realized how much I could save, even if I bought a full price phone. And a Nexus4 (Or Galaxy Nexus as I was considering earlier) just makes the deal even sweeter.
People won't switch because of the iPhone, they'll switch because of the significantly cheaper plans. And in the future, it will likely be because of the ability to rollout 15x15Mhz and 20x20Mhz LTE/LTE-Advanced which none of the other big 3 have talked about yet because their spectrum is disjointed. They are likely to have the fastest 3G and 4G LTE networks, far more international roaming agreements because of 1900Mhz HSPA+, and hopefully a wider selection of phones as well. Like the HTC One X but hate AT&T? Bring over that HTC One X, it'll work just fine. Or once Verizon starts pushing AWS LTE, you'll be able to use those phones too because they aren't SIM locking their phones anymore. It's a serious win/win for T-Mo.
dagamer34 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 11:36 AM   #46
abaez
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 7,147
Default

I don't think the unsubsidized idea will catch on as much as people seeing that if they are off contract they should be paying less each month. It's bizarre to think Verizon/ATT/Sprint have gotten away with this for so long.
abaez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 02:09 PM   #47
Mopetar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,861
Default

I think the changes to the subsidy model will be a bigger deal for Google than anyone else. If you can buy a Nexus device at cost (Assuming Google doesn't add much if any markup) as opposed to any other device, it makes the Nexus a much more attractive proposition.

The only potential problem is that it will drive business away from T-Mobile. It was already a better deal in some cases for people to buy their own device and pay a lower monthly rate, but a lot of people still went with the cheaper upfront cost at a greater cost over the duration of the contract. That people weren't gravitating towards this option would suggest that it doesn't work. There's probably a psychologist who can tell us that people tend to prefer a lower upfront cost over a lower total cost over time; either that or people in the U.S. are just generally terrible at math.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out.
Mopetar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 02:31 PM   #48
TuxDave
Lifer
 
TuxDave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 10,413
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by magomago View Post
Oh i know its completely illogical

The reality is that most everyone who wants an iphone probably has one; we've gone through 5 generations of the phone, where the previous 2 (Iphone5, and iphone4s) have been on the top 3 carriers. I don't imagine a mass exodus of people to tmobile for the iphone it is now ubiquitous among all the major carriers.

I disagree with you about the Nexus 4; no one outside of the online world that I know is aware of this phone.

Anyways you are smart enough - i switched from Classic after almost 10 years to Value because I realized how much I could save, even if I bought a full price phone. And a Nexus4 (Or Galaxy Nexus as I was considering earlier) just makes the deal even sweeter.
Surprising or not, the Nexus 4 was actually on the radio. Sure the name is a little different, it's just the "new Google phone" and people get upset that "it doesn't have 4G! (are you going to teach them all how to enable it?)". I think the major barrier that is still exclusive to the online nerd crowd is how to acquire it (what is this Play store?). But yes, the Nexus 4 impact is definitely smaller than the iPhone.

But really I was pointing out that unless you have a reason to set a specific threshold on how much an idea attracts T-mobile customers (5% customer growth OK, 15% BAD!), then... well I guess you know how I feel about the "oh this is bad news for T-mobile users" argument. I think the iPhone alone won't bring T-mobile to riches. The restructuring of plans would probably have a bigger impact and "harm existing T-mobile users" more.
__________________
post count = post count + 0.999.....
(\__/)
(='.'=)This is Bunny. Copy and paste bunny into your
(")_(")signature to help him gain world domination.
TuxDave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 03:03 PM   #49
Aikouka
Lifer
 
Aikouka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 24,424
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by lothar View Post
It's not subsidizing.
With Verizon, AT&T, or Sprint...Whether you sign a contract or not and get a new phone, you still pay the same monthly bill.
With T-Mobile's new plan, you have the option to pay out of pocket for a lower monthly bill, or pay a higher monthly bill if you want to buy their phone at a discount to finance it.

T-Mobile's new version is not a form of subsidizing because you're paying the full cost of the phone eventually plus interest.
I'm a bit confused as to why you don't think this is a subsidy.

One problem is that your statement on having to pay the same monthly bill is not correct. I know that at least Verizon offers an off-contract plan, but the problem is that it's really not worth it as the discount is only $10. $650 > ((24 * $10) + $200)

Honestly, it's not that T-Mobile isn't providing a subsidized option, but it's rather that T-Mobile is providing a TRANSPARENT subsidized option. Other carriers don't provide this information and that allows them to continue to charge you the exorbitant rates regardless of whether you're on contract or not. Essentially, it's an incredibly dubious way of milking money out of your customers that don't know any better.

EDIT:

I like the transparency that T-Mobile is showing here, and I really hope this ripples through and causes other carriers to do it, or be forced by some governing agency to do it. Honestly, I highly doubt that we'll get the prior, and you'll probably only see it with the latter.
Aikouka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2012, 03:08 PM   #50
sjwaste
Diamond Member
 
sjwaste's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,752
Default

Can you check t-mobile's coverage using an unactivated SIM? I have a t-mobile sim, but it's not activated and I don't want to buy a plan just to see if my wife's iphone will get 3G service at home.
sjwaste is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.