How to fix rush hour traffic once and for all?

[SparkyJJO]

Originally Posted by Doppel

Bad for economy.

The way to deal with it is automated cars that can drive themselves. It will allow congestion to evaporate. Cars will be able to tail gate safely at high speed, reducing fuel consumption, increasing safety, increasing capacity, etc.

Self-driving cars will be the biggest technological boom of the next 20 years.

You can keep them. I prefer to drive myself thank you very much.

[slashbinslashbash]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

You can keep them. I prefer to drive myself thank you very much.

You don't think it'd be nice to sit back, relax, read a book or newspaper, eat, watch a movie, play a game, surf the 'Net, or even sleep while your car gets you where you need to go? Without the need for a big windshield and other peculiarities of being driver-oriented, car interiors can become much more comfortable while the cars themselves become more aerodynamic.

You could send your kids to school (or wherever) on their own, in their own little one-person cars, with no worry about whether they get to where they're going, and no need for you to take them. It sounds fantastic to me. You could even send your car to the store, order the groceries on-line and have them loaded in the car and come back to your house without you having to go.

The possibilities of automated autonomous vehicles are endless. The funny thing is that the popular science fiction vision of such systems required them to run on rails or inside tubes or some other kind of confined/confining system which also excluded other means of transport. But now we have sensor and processing capabilities that allow vehicles to travel automatically on standard roads alongside human-driven cars, on roads where people can also walk or ride bikes or whatever. It doesn't require a big, expensive infrastructure like a train/monorail/whatever -- just a flat, hard surface. Which we've already got all over the place.

There will always be human-driven cars around, for sport. Horses are still being ridden; cars will still be driven. But cars won't be a part of everybody's daily lives, like horses aren't now.

[MaxPayne63]

Originally Posted by slashbinslashbash

You don't think it'd be nice to sit back, relax, read a book or newspaper, eat, watch a movie, play a game, surf the 'Net, or even sleep while your car gets you where you need to go? Without the need for a big windshield and other peculiarities of being driver-oriented, car interiors can become much more comfortable while the cars themselves become more aerodynamic.

You could send your kids to school (or wherever) on their own, in their own little one-person cars, with no worry about whether they get to where they're going, and no need for you to take them. It sounds fantastic to me. You could even send your car to the store, order the groceries on-line and have them loaded in the car and come back to your house without you having to go.

The possibilities of automated autonomous vehicles are endless. The funny thing is that the popular science fiction vision of such systems required them to run on rails or inside tubes or some other kind of confined/confining system which also excluded other means of transport. But now we have sensor and processing capabilities that allow vehicles to travel automatically on standard roads alongside human-driven cars, on roads where people can also walk or ride bikes or whatever. It doesn't require a big, expensive infrastructure like a train/monorail/whatever -- just a flat, hard surface. Which we've already got all over the place.

There will always be human-driven cars around, for sport. Horses are still being ridden; cars will still be driven. But cars won't be a part of everybody's daily lives, like horses aren't now.

Most drivers can't afford to replace what they were driving ten years ago. If I were you, I would not hold my breath waiting for self-driving cars to become widely adopted.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by slashbinslashbash

You don't think it'd be nice to sit back, relax, read a book or newspaper, eat, watch a movie, play a game, surf the 'Net, or even sleep while your car gets you where you need to go? Without the need for a big windshield and other peculiarities of being driver-oriented, car interiors can become much more comfortable while the cars themselves become more aerodynamic.

You could send your kids to school (or wherever) on their own, in their own little one-person cars, with no worry about whether they get to where they're going, and no need for you to take them. It sounds fantastic to me. You could even send your car to the store, order the groceries on-line and have them loaded in the car and come back to your house without you having to go.

The possibilities of automated autonomous vehicles are endless. The funny thing is that the popular science fiction vision of such systems required them to run on rails or inside tubes or some other kind of confined/confining system which also excluded other means of transport. But now we have sensor and processing capabilities that allow vehicles to travel automatically on standard roads alongside human-driven cars, on roads where people can also walk or ride bikes or whatever. It doesn't require a big, expensive infrastructure like a train/monorail/whatever -- just a flat, hard surface. Which we've already got all over the place.

There will always be human-driven cars around, for sport. Horses are still being ridden; cars will still be driven. But cars won't be a part of everybody's daily lives, like horses aren't now.

As long as there are human-driven cars on the road, I won't be relaxing in my robotic Taurus...

[slashbinslashbash]

Originally Posted by LTC8K6

As long as there are human-driven cars on the road, I won't be relaxing in my robotic Taurus...

Google has already been driving their automatic cars around the country with no system-created accidents. One was rear-ended and another had a minor accident while a human driver had control.

The technology is pretty much there. These cars have been driving around in the middle of human-driven traffic for a couple of years now with no incidents. I would trust this system to be a better driver than 50% of the driving population as it is; and the network effects should be substantial (as more of these are adopted, traffic becomes more predictable, and thus they all become more efficient/safer). All that's needed is to figure out how to lower costs and take this kind of system into wider production.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

And yes, the first ones on the road will still require a driver, and be laid out and styled like traditional cars. But as the technology becomes more widespread I think we will see more and more of an evolution of the design. Eventually (say 50 years from now?) I think we will see a "road train" type situation where cars are able to link up and drive right behind one another to create greater aerodynamic efficiency. But then they can detach and individual cars can go their separate ways when they get close to their destinations.

The idea of having millions of autonomous cars out there, networked together and sharing information.... they would all know where the potholes are, where a detour is set up and where a dog has just been hit and is lying in the road. They can all share this information in real-time and dodge obstacles and avoid traffic by re-routing. But all of this is pretty far in the future. That said, I do think that I will live to see most of it happen. (I'm in my early 30's)

When my grandparents were born, their families did not own a car. Technology progresses really quickly, but the human tendency towards conservatism can create the perception of things not changing when really they are. Gradual changes accumulate, none of them perceptible but when you look across a large period of time then the changes are drastic. As hard as it is to believe, Interstate 80 was only completed in 1986, creating the first contiguous coast-to-coast interstate highway in the US. 50 years ago, the Interstate highway system as we know it today did not exist. It is crazy to think about nowadays when the core traffic flow through through most metro areas is comprised of Interstate highways. Drastic changes can happen in 50 years, but they happen incrementally. We are still on the first steps, but I think it's almost inevitable at this point.

[LTC8K6]

Originally Posted by slashbinslashbash

Google has already been driving their automatic cars around the country with no system-created accidents. One was rear-ended and another had a minor accident while a human driver had control.
...

I think you misinterpreted my post...

[djnsmith7]

If you ever drive around the Bay Area & cross the major bridges or the recently added HOV (carpool) lane on 880, you'll see we have so many fees coming out of our a**, almost makes you not want to drive through these places. Not only do we not need anymore damn fees, we could use a damn break.

For a lot of people, it's real expensive just to get to & from work. You have to pay all of these damn tolls, plus the commute itself (distance) & the fuel, with gas prices at an all-time high.

[SparkyJJO]

Originally Posted by slashbinslashbash

You don't think it'd be nice to sit back, relax, read a book or newspaper, eat, watch a movie, play a game, surf the 'Net, or even sleep while your car gets you where you need to go? Without the need for a big windshield and other peculiarities of being driver-oriented, car interiors can become much more comfortable while the cars themselves become more aerodynamic.

You could send your kids to school (or wherever) on their own, in their own little one-person cars, with no worry about whether they get to where they're going, and no need for you to take them. It sounds fantastic to me. You could even send your car to the store, order the groceries on-line and have them loaded in the car and come back to your house without you having to go.

The possibilities of automated autonomous vehicles are endless. The funny thing is that the popular science fiction vision of such systems required them to run on rails or inside tubes or some other kind of confined/confining system which also excluded other means of transport. But now we have sensor and processing capabilities that allow vehicles to travel automatically on standard roads alongside human-driven cars, on roads where people can also walk or ride bikes or whatever. It doesn't require a big, expensive infrastructure like a train/monorail/whatever -- just a flat, hard surface. Which we've already got all over the place.

There will always be human-driven cars around, for sport. Horses are still being ridden; cars will still be driven. But cars won't be a part of everybody's daily lives, like horses aren't now.

On occasion? Maybe. But as the norm? No.

[wirednuts]

we have the technology to make cars that drive themselves. we just need to fund the r and d to bring that idea to life. once that happens, no more rush hour traffic, no more drunk driving, no more police speed traps.

thats why i get so sick of people scrambling to find ways to reduce traffic. why? people commuting means things are happening, your city is alive. you just need to find a way to accommodate the moving, and since you cant change the roads (for the most part) or the cars (already tiny as they can be) then you need to change the drivers.

cars that can drive themselves eliminate 95% of all our commuting problems. hell, i think someday we will feel safe enough to let 10 year olds drive. all theyll have to do is get in the car and tell it where to go.

[Throckmorton]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

On occasion? Maybe. But as the norm? No.

I'm guessing you don't have to deal with rush hour traffic, which isn't fun AT ALL.

[SparkyJJO]

Originally Posted by Throckmorton

I'm guessing you don't have to deal with rush hour traffic, which isn't fun AT ALL.

On the contrary I have been stuck in rush hour traffic on numerous occasions. Not stuck for 3 hours like some places, but I've been in it where it takes me an hour for what normally takes 10 min in normal traffic. During some instances like that I might prefer to not be behind the wheel, but the vast majority of the time that I'm not stuck in such traffic I prefer to control the vehicle directly.

[Doppel]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

You can keep them. I prefer to drive myself thank you very much.

Too bad, eventually it will be taken out of your hands. You suck at driving compared to a computer anyway. So do I, we all do. Future generations will look back in horror as we do to the people before us when they think on how we used to all individually drive our cars because we were so technologically inept we couldn't think of a way to drive themselves.

The benefits of automated transport are extremely numerous. I was not kidding at all when I said it will be the greatest technological breakthrough in decades when it gains some level of ubiquity. I believe it will, once it gains a foothold, explode in prevalence, just as the internet did. It will be so obvious when it gains traction to everybody that it's a better way to exist.

Many major automotive brands (and some non-automotive) realize this and their visionaries are already plowing ahead into driver less technology. It will happen, it will be ubiquitous, and people who at this time don't endorse the idea will eventually realize how thoroughly wrong they were.

[Doppel]

Originally Posted by wirednuts

we have the technology to make cars that drive themselves. we just need to fund the r and d to bring that idea to life. once that happens, no more rush hour traffic, no more drunk driving, no more police speed traps.

thats why i get so sick of people scrambling to find ways to reduce traffic. why? people commuting means things are happening, your city is alive. you just need to find a way to accommodate the moving, and since you cant change the roads (for the most part) or the cars (already tiny as they can be) then you need to change the drivers.

cars that can drive themselves eliminate 95% of all our commuting problems. hell, i think someday we will feel safe enough to let 10 year olds drive. all theyll have to do is get in the car and tell it where to go.

I agree with everything you're saying because it's so damn clear to me it frustrates me when others don't see driver less tech as the ridiculously massive boon to society that it will be. I saw the light several years ago and I have thankfully noticed more people jumping on the bandwagon, with more brands looking at it, and popular science I think it was maybe 6-9 months ago had a piece on it, covering everything, from better fuel economy to shorter commutes (huge reduction in traffic issues), to better safety, to freeing up lost time otherwise spent driving. I wholly believe that by the time I'm an old fart old farts will no longer be menaces on the road because their cars will do the driving. All of this will have a highly depressive influence on performance cars, as they will go more than ever before toward accessories/luxury items, since they'll be the only parts of relevance to a driver/passenger. It's now legal in at least two states. You'll never sit at a red light again, and ultimately all lights could be removed because cars will orchestrate their movement among each other without them.

[wirednuts]

Originally Posted by Doppel

You'll never sit at a red light again, and ultimately all lights could be removed because cars will orchestrate their movement among each other without them.

eventually, hopefully. i think though there will be a few competing protocols used to help the cars navigate, and of course each one is way better then the other so they will never co mingle properly. ultimately, capitalism will force the existence of red lights and non-autonomous transportation.

[SparkyJJO]

Originally Posted by Doppel

Too bad, eventually it will be taken out of your hands.

No.

YOU may not want to drive, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same, however I am also sure there are many others who agree with me as well.

Don't take this to mean that I'm against automated vehicles. I'm not, for those who want them. But don't force me into something like that, just like I have no desire to force you to drive once automated stuff that can be relied on is available.

[wirednuts]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

No.

YOU may not want to drive, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same, however I am also sure there are many others who agree with me as well.

Don't take this to mean that I'm against automated vehicles. I'm not, for those who want them. But don't force me into something like that, just like I have no desire to force you to drive once automated stuff that can be relied on is available.

another good point. people simply wont want to go automated. i think that mentality will fade quickly if they can come out the game with a noticeable increase in safety. as in, zero accidents.

[Throckmorton]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

No.

YOU may not want to drive, and I'm sure there are others who feel the same, however I am also sure there are many others who agree with me as well.

Don't take this to mean that I'm against automated vehicles. I'm not, for those who want them. But don't force me into something like that, just like I have no desire to force you to drive once automated stuff that can be relied on is available.

Automated driving will probably happen in city highways first. Then MAYBE it will migrate to every road but hopefully still be optional.

[phucheneh]

We're never going to have cars that drive themselves.

It would be far too expensive for manufacturers and insurance companies to not have a consumer to place blame on. And there would be copious blame in need of placing.

Also the police would have nothing to do except try and prevent actual crime. Yeah, that's gonna happen...

[Baked]

Let the computers map out and control your vehicles. Basically make all vehicles auto pilot like Minority Report. Highways get congested because people are stupid and slow down for no reason. If everything's computer controlled, everything will be timed correctly, eliminating the need to slow down.

[power_hour]

In Ontario, Canada we get dinged if our area has many accidents. Self driving cars would work great. The tech is here. I can't wait. Sitting in traffic playing a RPG or FPS (well maybe not - Road rage). I fail to see the problem.

[phucheneh]

Do people really not think beyond 'well, it worked in that Tom Cruise movie?'

Do you really think cars are going to become limited to those who can afford an automated one? Sure, our country hates the poor; but I don't see it getting quite to this degree. Maybe we should outlaw the internet for people without iProducts.

Do you really think computer controlled cars are going to be on the same streets as conventional cars? You would have to, as your computer car isn't going to be able to interact with someone's 'antique' without true artificial intelligence, a.k.a. the thing that doesn't exist.

Do you really think cars are going to become absolutely bulletproof reliable? You would have to, unless you think that the computer car will be able to manage any and all types of malfunctions or parts failures without killing you.

Do you really think we will have constant maintenance and inspections? You would have to, as your computer car would always have to be in tip-top shape; forget part failures, part wear is unacceptable.

I could go on for days about how retarded this concept truly is. There is zero way to transition to this kind of vehicle. Also, they would drive the the people making and selling them out of business.

The brain: not just a squishy mass to keep your skull from caving in.

[wirednuts]

Originally Posted by phucheneh

Do people really not think beyond 'well, it worked in that Tom Cruise movie?'

Do you really think cars are going to become limited to those who can afford an automated one? Sure, our country hates the poor; but I don't see it getting quite to this degree. Maybe we should outlaw the internet for people without iProducts.

Do you really think computer controlled cars are going to be on the same streets as conventional cars? You would have to, as your computer car isn't going to be able to interact with someone's 'antique' without true artificial intelligence, a.k.a. the thing that doesn't exist.

Do you really think cars are going to become absolutely bulletproof reliable? You would have to, unless you think that the computer car will be able to manage any and all types of malfunctions or parts failures without killing you.

Do you really think we will have constant maintenance and inspections? You would have to, as your computer car would always have to be in tip-top shape; forget part failures, part wear is unacceptable.

I could go on for days about how retarded this concept truly is. There is zero way to transition to this kind of vehicle. Also, they would drive the the people making and selling them out of business.

The brain: not just a squishy mass to keep your skull from caving in.

the brain: something you havent chose to use yet. by 2015 the military will have a portion of their ground vehicles totally autonomous. and yes, they are co mingled with manual drive cars. computers are a lot smarter then you think they are.

[hans007]

Originally Posted by SparkyJJO

You can keep them. I prefer to drive myself thank you very much.

I'm with you. I like driving. I'd be just like will Smith in I , robot . Or Stallone in demolition man.

Hell the last job I had I got an apartment a little bit away from work just so I'd have some car time every day. Hell I personally fear the end of non hybrid cars because I like the way gasoline cars drive. I gladly buy new nicer cars and put gas in them.

If you want a self driving car why not just take the bus today,? Oh well maybe I'm a dinosaur .

[Throckmorton]

Trains are a lot easier and cheaper and more efficient than self-driving cars.

[OVerLoRDI]

Originally Posted by Howard

Where do the drivers who don't go on the highway drive? Are they now backing up local roads?

Traffic is the result or necessity. People don't drive across the SF bay bridge in the hundreds of thousands every day for fun or because they are selfish. Fining them more won't help.

In the case of this particular bridge traffic is so horrendous because of the toll plaza. There are only two fastrak lanes in the plaza, the rest is traditional cash toll booths, they should abolish paying with cash during rush hour, except for 1 lane. The rest should be full speed fastrak like the Bencia bridge.