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Old 12-04-2012, 06:42 PM   #26
Darwin333
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Originally Posted by JEDIYoda View Post
why??
Because I am curious as to how UN sanctions, at least those with real teeth, are passed......
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Old 12-04-2012, 06:55 PM   #27
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Because I am curious as to how UN sanctions, at least those with real teeth, are passed......
UN Chapter VII sanctions are imposed by the SC.

EU can impose sanctions under article 11 on the Treaty of the European Union.

UN sanctions won't pass and neither would EU sanctions without Israel unilaterally starting a war of aggression.

IOW LL is SOL for his predictions.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Fern View Post
Dumb

Israel is not part of the treaty.



Treaties are voluntary, like contracts. Coercion is illegal, and what the UN is engaging in is coercion.

Fern
Coercion is most certainly not illegal. Where did you get that from?
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:12 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Darwin333 View Post
And this.

Can they even pass any serious sanctions that the US can't veto?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Darwin3333 asks the key question here, because what happen when and if the USA forgets to veto Israeli sanctions in the UN?

As we can fast backward to Taiwan circa 1970. As there was Taiwan, dumb fat and happy, pretending to represent the All the Chinese people in the UN. Until Richard Nixon yanked the rug out on Taiwan, and Red China with the far bigger population became the real UN representatives of the Chinese people. Why should Obama or any future US President sacrifice US world credibility no matter how unreal Israel gets? What is more important to US foreign policy? As even our allies tell us they cant support Israeli stupidity any longer. As the other US consideration becomes, does the US want to alienate 300 million Arabs just to support the piggish actions of only 6 million Jews with a piggish government that has gone into law la land.

But we for get Israel has the AIPAC lobby, that depends on only past public opinion. As for the US Jewish voting black, 2.5% of the US voting population makes them a very small minority. And even then, that Jewish demographic supported Obama 63% over Romney.

PR can be a very fleeting thing, just ask Pee Wee Herman and the pre WW2 German American bund.

Then we can add the fact that Obama has won re-election, and Obama has no reason to love the Stab him in the back Netanyuhu. As all the USA now has to do is to abstain in terms of an anti-Israeli resolution in the UN security council.

As I ask you Darwin3333, why should Netanyuhu have the Chutzpah to count on Obama to bail his ass out?

After all Obama pledged to support Israel, and can still redeem his pledge if a future Israel government without Netanyuhu is more rational.

Last edited by Lemon law; 12-04-2012 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:28 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Maybe Darwin3333 asks the key question here, because what happen when and if the USA forgets to veto Israeli sanctions in the UN?

As we can fast backward to Taiwan circa 1970. As there was Taiwan, dumb fat and happy, pretending to represent the All the Chinese people in the UN. Until Richard Nixon yanked the rug out on Taiwan, and Red China with the far bigger population became the real UN representatives of the Chinese people. Why should Obama or any future US President sacrifice US world credibility no matter how unreal Israel gets? What is more important to US foreign policy? As even our allies tell us they cant support Israeli stupidity any longer. As the other US consideration becomes, does the US want to alienate 300 million Arabs just to support the piggish actions of only 6 million Jews with a piggish government that has gone into law la land.

But we for get Israel has the AIPAC lobby, that depends on only past public opinion. As for the US Jewish voting black, 2.5% of the US voting population makes them a very small minority. And even then, that Jewish demographic supported Obama 63% over Romney.

PR can be a very fleeting thing, just ask Pee Wee Herman and the pre WW2 German American bund.

Then we can add the fact that Obama has won re-election, and Obama has no reason to love the Stab him in the back Netanyuhu. As all the USA now has to do is to abstain in terms of an anti-Israeli resolution in the UN security council.

As I ask you Darwin3333, why should Netanyuhu have the Chutzpah to count on Obama to bail his ass out?

After all Obama pledged to support Israel, and can still redeem his pledge if a future Israel government without Netanyuhu is more rational.
Neither France nor UK would let the resolution pass even if the US would "forget" to veto it.

I'd say that it's more likely that US will use diplomacy long before it ever comes down to a vote in the UNSC.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:35 PM   #31
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Coercion is most certainly not illegal. Where did you get that from?
It is illegal according to the Vienna convention on the law of treaties.

Any treaty consented to under coercion is invalid.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:40 PM   #32
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It is illegal according to the Vienna convention on the law of treaties.

Any treaty consented to under coercion is invalid.
Sorry, doesn't apply to interactions between states and intergovernmental organizations.
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Old 12-04-2012, 07:58 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by eskimospy View Post
Sorry, doesn't apply to interactions between states and intergovernmental organizations.
Israel does not have to sign and it's not going to be forced on them.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:20 PM   #34
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Israel does not have to sign and it's not going to be forced on them.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who are you trying to convince Haybasusa?

As for me, the proof of your pudding will only be decided in the future.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:25 PM   #35
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Sorry, doesn't apply to interactions between states and intergovernmental organizations.
Yes it does, there is no exclusion for intergovernmental organisations.

A treaty is much like a contract and coerced treaties are invalid just like coerced contracts. They must be entered into willingly.

For example, if Iran wasn't an signatory of the NPT then the UN could not under threat of sanctions coerce them into signing the NPT.

Granted, this is done all the time but it still renders the treaty invalid should the signing party wish to invalidate it.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:26 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who are you trying to convince Haybasusa?

As for me, the proof of your pudding will only be decided in the future.
Is that another prediction from the king of failed predictions?

You're not very good at this.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:30 PM   #37
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Israel does not have to sign and it's not going to be forced on them.
Of course not. Israel will do what Israel wants and LL will whine all day long.
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:33 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Who are you trying to convince Haybasusa?

As for me, the proof of your pudding will only be decided in the future.
Like sands through the hourglass, so are the days of our lives.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:03 PM   #39
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Israeli fanbois once again reveal their blindness & hypocrisy.

When the UN wants to impose "additional protocols" on Iran, things they never agreed to, it's a good thing. When they fry to convince Israel to sign the NPT, that's "coercion".

When the US & the UN demand inspection of Iranian sites where they don't even allege that nuclear materials were ever present, it's a great idea, from which enormous innuendo & suspicion, even warmongering is derived. When they want to look at Israeli reactors & facilities, where nuclear materials are obviously present and produced, why, that's just unthinkable.

When Israel threatens to attack Iran over unproven accusations of nuclear wrongdoing, it's a wonderful idea, and the chest thumping is epic. When it's pointed out that Israel has run her own clandestine nuclear weapons program for decades, well, that's fine & wonderful...

It just goes on from there. The penetration of Israeli propaganda, Hasbara, into the America psyche is truly astounding.

Last edited by Jhhnn; 12-04-2012 at 10:12 PM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:17 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Jhhnn View Post
Israeli fanbois once again reveal their blindness & hypocrisy.

When the UN wants to impose "additional protocols" on Iran, things they never agreed to, it's a good thing. When they fry to convince Israel to sign the NPT, that's "coercion".

When the US & the UN demand inspection of Iranian sites where they don't even allege that nuclear materials were ever present, it's a great idea, from which enormous innuendo & suspicion, even warmongering is derived. When they want to look at Israeli reactors & facilities, where nuclear materials are obviously present and produced, why, that's just unthinkable.

When Israel threatens to attack Iran over unproven accusations of nuclear wrongdoing, it's a wonderful idea, and the chest thumping is epic. When it's pointed out that Israel has run her own clandestine nuclear weapons program for decades, well, that's fine & wonderful...

It just goes on from there. The penetration of Israeli propaganda, Hasbara, into the America psyche is truly astounding.
Israel is not part of the NPT and they don't go around threatening their neighbors with nukes so I don't see the issue. On the other hand, has signed the NPT and illegally denied IAEA inspectors access.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:11 PM   #41
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Israel is not part of the NPT and they don't go around threatening their neighbors with nukes so I don't see the issue. On the other hand, has signed the NPT and illegally denied IAEA inspectors access.
Yup. Still blind, willfully so.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:46 PM   #42
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A UN resolution carries about as much weight as a letter from the local PTA. The only part of the UN that has any power at all is the security counsel, and that is only because it's backed up by the USA.

Forget it LL, the rest of the world isn't going to lose a dollar or a single drop of blood over this.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:12 AM   #43
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There is an endless supply of anti Israel resolutions since the world is grossly antisemetic.

The UN should maybe focus on either a) getting rid of 100% of all nukes or maybe b) issues that are far more important and realistic to solve such as the problems in Northern Africa and the rest of the Middle East.

To me these anti Israel resolutions would be far more palpable if the UN would also throw out other hilarious resolutions such as condemning Saudi Arabia for being barbaric and 1000 years behind the rest of civilization.
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Old 12-05-2012, 02:41 AM   #44
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It just goes on from there. The penetration of Israeli propaganda, Hasbara, into the America psyche is truly astounding.
If Muslims didn't want us dead set against them, then September 11th shouldn't have happened. I didn't give a !@#$ about Israel til that day.
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:34 AM   #45
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A culture of loons that dresses babies up as suicide bombers and pitches rockets on a whim gets favored by the loons at UN who puts genocidal killers on human rights commissions. Even Kofi Annan said the UN's anti-Semitism was embarrassing (after Durban fiasco). Israel sees its being painted into a corner with UN on one-side and weird Obama the grinning communist, terrorist lover on the other, Israel is tired now and is going to open a can of whup-ass. Just watch. Final defense against the final solution 2.0 on the way
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:37 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by Lemon law View Post
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you EK, seem to think the past 64 years of Israeli government actions are somehow the actions of a moral and just nation? As your implied argument boils down to, if other nations do wrong, Israel is thus justified to be even more wrong. Which is bullshit EK, especially when all international eyes are now focused on Israel and Bozo Netanyuyu incredible stupidity.

As Israel is now losing and losing badly in the eyes of the international community.

You EK and your fellow Israeli fan clubbers are simply too biased to see it.

Of course you accuse me of the same bias, but I have been saying the Present Israeli Government actions are untenable. As you and your Pro-Israeli fan clubbers think I am proved wrong when the results are not instant. As I have maintained that international actions are anything but instantaneous.

As for me, I have always advocated a win win soft landing for Israel. But Earth to EK, Netanyuhu policies are now the greatest present danger to Israel.

Now EK, lets see which one of us in right in the END.
Ducking the question:
Why should Israel be blamed for the actions of Iran?
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:51 AM   #47
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Ducking the question: Why should Israel be blamed for the actions of Iran?
Israel should not be blamed for the actions of Iran...

however...

Overthrowing a democratically elected Prime Minister because Oil Companies don't like him... could have consequences down the line.

Israel didn't do that.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:17 AM   #48
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Why did Obama get the peace prize befor every doing anything peaceful ?

I will tell you . Because scripture says there will be a peace treaty. It also says the Anti-christ is the man who brings that treaty about . But the treaty fails. and you know the rest of the story . The Leaders of the NWO movement are following the revelations story down to the T in so far as prophecy is concerned . The funny part is Thats written in revelations that they would do this . If this isn't a conspirecy of over 2,000 years old . Which I believe it to be . Than infact bible revelations is unfolding right befor your eyes . Of course those who are susceptable to mind control will always deny this .
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #49
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Why did Obama get the peace prize befor every doing anything peaceful ?
He actually became the first person to get a peace prize for not being his predecessor.

While we're on these conspiracy theories remember when some people got their panties in a bunch because Ronald Wilson Reagan was talking to that weird Russian guy with the odd birthmark on his forehead?

Yeah...

Real agents of a conspiracy are much better at covering their tracks ironically Barack Hussein Obama is a perfect unwitting distraction so that the one true Anti-Christ can continue his work in complete secrecy
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:50 PM   #50
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Why did Obama get the peace prize befor every doing anything peaceful ?

I will tell you . Because scripture says there will be a peace treaty. It also says the Anti-christ is the man who brings that treaty about . But the treaty fails. and you know the rest of the story . The Leaders of the NWO movement are following the revelations story down to the T in so far as prophecy is concerned . The funny part is Thats written in revelations that they would do this . If this isn't a conspirecy of over 2,000 years old . Which I believe it to be . Than infact bible revelations is unfolding right befor your eyes . Of course those who are susceptable to mind control will always deny this .

The scripture also says he would have no desire for women, have supernatural powers and can perform miracles (the so called proof nonbelievers always point out that is lacking in religions today), cannot be killed, will sit in the temple and proclaim himself to be God and many more things, disqualifying Obama and many others.

This is the closest example of what the antichrist could be.
http://www.shareintl.org/maitreya/Ma_main.htm
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