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Old 12-04-2012, 09:34 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik View Post
This, CBO says that math is BS, which makes it a non-starter.
The Rethugs only observe the CBO as a credible source when the numbers are in their favor look no further then the "Death Panels" in the ACA for that proof.
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Old 12-04-2012, 09:35 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Exterous View Post
Why should they give details on their plan? The Democrats gave them 'unspecified cuts'. Yep lots of detail and REAL numbers there. *

I don't think either side knows how to deal with real numbers when the public is actually going to pay attention. It's become to hard to fudge the numbers. I would really like both sides to use actual numbers as we might get some valid discourse between the two groups.

However - this is what I predict will happen: One side will release actual specified details on their plan (Slight edge to it being the Democrats). The otherside won't and will take the opportunity to poke holes in the plan while pretending not to notice their plan is nothing more than a vague outline on a napkin. Negotiations will be intense, but hindered by partisanship, retardation and a lack of detail. End result: We end up with nothing that fixes the long term issues and is only slightly better than the cliff

*Not saying this is a stance I agree with but its the stance I bet they are taking. Its much more politically safe to use vagaries than give actual numbers. If the other side can't be bothered to use real numbers why should they take the risk?



What do you mean no Details? President Obama has been on the stump for a year Campaigning on the details of which he won the Election on so what's your point?
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:19 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik View Post
This, CBO says that math is BS, which makes it a non-starter.
Link? Or are you making this up?
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Last edited by Doc Savage Fan; 12-04-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:25 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Farang View Post
Ok, so..

debt ceiling is not raised.

Exception is the interest on the debt. We're only allowed to pay that.

The military has ceased getting paychecks and our defense spending is cut off (don't have an exact percentage for you, but a huge portion of federal spending).

Social security and Medicare payments are stopped, people who planned retirement around these programs are left to fend for themselves (don't have an exact percentage for you, but a huge portion of federal spending).

The government grinds to a halt (discretionary spending, a small fraction of federal spending)

In other words, your credit card bills are in a big flaming pile

I'm assuming you're a teenager. It's the only explanation. Talk to your parents about their retirement plan.
Kinda sounds like maybe you are getting it now. As far as being a teenager, I probably have t-shirts older than you. Next time maybe learn what the hell you are talking about before going off like you do.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:35 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by Ausm View Post
What do you mean no Details? President Obama has been on the stump for a year Campaigning on the details of which he won the Election on so what's your point?
Who is talking about the campaign? We are discussing the actual proposals - not talking points

Quote:
which included $1.6 trillion in tax increases and $400 billion in future, unspecified spending cuts
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-fiscal-cliff/

Quote:
In exchange, the officials said, President Barack Obama will support an unspecified amount of spending cuts this year
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...6#.UL4k8oM0WSo

Quote:
Obama also wants to eliminate unspecified deductions
http://bostonglobe.com/news/politics...JeL/story.html

Quote:
At heart of Obama's opening gambit in the negotiations is the call for $1.6 trillion in revenues, including $960 billion from raising the top marginal tax rates on wealthy Americans as well as higher taxes on capital gains and dividends and an additional $600 billion from unspecified revenue sources.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...eople/1737713/
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:45 AM   #81
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Boehner criticizes Obama for not specifying his proposed spending cuts and Obama criticizes Boehner for not specifying details of his proposed plan to increase tax revenue by removing/capping certain deductions.

There are no adults in Washington.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:46 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan View Post
There are no adults in Washington.
It's the story that never ends.
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:47 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exterous View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausm
What do you mean no Details? President Obama has been on the stump for a year Campaigning on the details of which he won the Election on so what's your point?

Who is talking about the campaign? We are discussing the actual proposals - not talking points


Quote:
which included $1.6 trillion in tax increases and $400 billion in future, unspecified spending cuts

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-fiscal-cliff/


Quote:
In exchange, the officials said, President Barack Obama will support an unspecified amount of spending cuts this year

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...6#.UL4k8oM0WSo


Quote:
Obama also wants to eliminate unspecified deductions

http://bostonglobe.com/news/politics...JeL/story.html


Quote:
At heart of Obama's opening gambit in the negotiations is the call for $1.6 trillion in revenues, including $960 billion from raising the top marginal tax rates on wealthy Americans as well as higher taxes on capital gains and dividends and an additional $600 billion from unspecified revenue sources.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...eople/1737713/
Speaking of campaign, didn' Obama and everyone else bash Romney for not being specific in his plan? It's ok now?
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Old 12-04-2012, 10:58 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan View Post
Link? Or are you making this up?
The approach is called Dynamic Scoring, where you attempt to model the 2nd..nth order impact of the policy on revenue. Needless to say, not exactly easy or accurate, given that you're looking at a very complex, nonlinear system.



http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...liff-tax-hikes

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...rld&id=8907105
Quote:
"Boehner signaled in discussions with Obama in 2011 that he was willing to accept up to $800 billion in higher tax revenues, but his aides maintained that much of that money would have come from so-called dynamic scoring - a conservative approach in which economic growth would have accounted for much of the revenue. Now, Boehner is willing to accept the estimates of official scorekeepers like the Congressional Budget Office, whose models reject dynamic scoring."
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It seems like people want to bend reality any way they wish. Jobs are created by economic activity, and this economic activity happens because of self-made people of all races and colors that are motivated by greed. The sooner we understand it the better we are.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:07 AM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik View Post
The approach is called Dynamic Scoring, where you attempt to model the 2nd..nth order impact of the policy on revenue. Needless to say, not exactly easy or accurate, given that you're looking at a very complex, nonlinear system.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...liff-tax-hikes

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...rld&id=8907105
From your 2nd link:

Quote:
Boehner is willing to accept the estimates of official scorekeepers like the Congressional Budget Office, whose models reject dynamic scoring.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:12 AM   #86
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Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1 View Post
Hate to say you're an idiot... and I'm not defending Republicans here - but the blame is automatically directed to whichever party is POTUS - regardless. The general public is always and forever will be that stupid. And hate to break it to you, but republicans are talking. Republicans are branching off from their stance of not raising taxes. Obama is throwing them a bone without the steak.
I know all this. I was the first to report in P&N about GOP breaking rank on tax talks
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:43 AM   #87
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LOL DeMint is railing against Boehner's plan! GOP is so fucked.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:03 PM   #88
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LOL DeMint is railing against Boehner's plan! GOP is so fucked.
If the GOP and Obama come up with a reasonable plan...it will need significant Dem support to get it passed. The Tea Party does not play nice.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:06 PM   #89
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If the GOP and Obama come up with a reasonable plan...it will need significant Dem support to get it passed. The Tea Party does not play nice.
And if that does happen, Tea Party candidates will unseat "RINO" candidates in primaries all across the red states in 2014.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:54 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan View Post
Boehner criticizes Obama for not specifying his proposed spending cuts and Obama criticizes Boehner for not specifying details of his proposed plan to increase tax revenue by removing/capping certain deductions.

There are no adults in Washington.
Like I said earlier in this thread. Neither side is taking this serious. Even if Obama gets everything he wants we dont cut a cent while increasing revenues. It put such a small dent in the deficit why bother? Republicans have an idea on cutting spending while increasing revenues. But even their proposal falls far short of doing anything substantial about deficit spending.

But this is what the American people want. To continue until it all comes crashing down.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:25 PM   #91
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Rich people will be paying an Obammacare tax on income from Dividends under the O'Bammacare. They will also pay an O'Bammacare tax on regular income. This all triggered by some arbitrary set amount of income. So the rich people will already be getting a tax increase along with everyone else.
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