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12-04-2012, 09:34 AM
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#76
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Lifer
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Madison,Wi
Posts: 25,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik
This, CBO says that math is BS, which makes it a non-starter.
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The Rethugs only observe the CBO as a credible source when the numbers are in their favor look no further then the "Death Panels" in the ACA for that proof. 
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It's ok to eat fish, because fish don't have any feelings.
You know your're getting old when MILF'S look young
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12-04-2012, 09:35 AM
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#77
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Lifer
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Madison,Wi
Posts: 25,120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exterous
Why should they give details on their plan? The Democrats gave them 'unspecified cuts'. Yep lots of detail and REAL numbers there.  *
I don't think either side knows how to deal with real numbers when the public is actually going to pay attention. It's become to hard to fudge the numbers. I would really like both sides to use actual numbers as we might get some valid discourse between the two groups.
However - this is what I predict will happen: One side will release actual specified details on their plan (Slight edge to it being the Democrats). The otherside won't and will take the opportunity to poke holes in the plan while pretending not to notice their plan is nothing more than a vague outline on a napkin. Negotiations will be intense, but hindered by partisanship, retardation and a lack of detail. End result: We end up with nothing that fixes the long term issues and is only slightly better than the cliff
*Not saying this is a stance I agree with but its the stance I bet they are taking. Its much more politically safe to use vagaries than give actual numbers. If the other side can't be bothered to use real numbers why should they take the risk?
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What do you mean no Details? President Obama has been on the stump for a year Campaigning on the details of which he won the Election on so what's your point?
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It's ok to eat fish, because fish don't have any feelings.
You know your're getting old when MILF'S look young
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12-04-2012, 10:19 AM
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#78
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Empire State Building - 86th Floor
Posts: 5,979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik
This, CBO says that math is BS, which makes it a non-starter.
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Link? Or are you making this up?
__________________
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
- Albert Einstein
Last edited by Doc Savage Fan; 12-04-2012 at 10:32 AM.
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12-04-2012, 10:25 AM
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#79
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farang
Ok, so..
debt ceiling is not raised.
Exception is the interest on the debt. We're only allowed to pay that.
The military has ceased getting paychecks and our defense spending is cut off (don't have an exact percentage for you, but a huge portion of federal spending).
Social security and Medicare payments are stopped, people who planned retirement around these programs are left to fend for themselves (don't have an exact percentage for you, but a huge portion of federal spending).
The government grinds to a halt (discretionary spending, a small fraction of federal spending)
In other words, your credit card bills are in a big flaming pile
I'm assuming you're a teenager. It's the only explanation. Talk to your parents about their retirement plan.
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Kinda sounds like maybe you are getting it now. As far as being a teenager, I probably have t-shirts older than you. Next time maybe learn what the hell you are talking about before going off like you do.
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12-04-2012, 10:35 AM
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#80
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9,484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausm
What do you mean no Details? President Obama has been on the stump for a year Campaigning on the details of which he won the Election on so what's your point?
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Who is talking about the campaign? We are discussing the actual proposals - not talking points
Quote:
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which included $1.6 trillion in tax increases and $400 billion in future, unspecified spending cuts
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-fiscal-cliff/
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In exchange, the officials said, President Barack Obama will support an unspecified amount of spending cuts this year
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http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...6#.UL4k8oM0WSo
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Obama also wants to eliminate unspecified deductions
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http://bostonglobe.com/news/politics...JeL/story.html
Quote:
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At heart of Obama's opening gambit in the negotiations is the call for $1.6 trillion in revenues, including $960 billion from raising the top marginal tax rates on wealthy Americans as well as higher taxes on capital gains and dividends and an additional $600 billion from unspecified revenue sources.
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http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...eople/1737713/
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"Madness is rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, nations, and ages it is the rule." -Friedrich Nietzshe
"It is well to remember that the entire universe, with one trifiling exception, is composed of others" - John Andrew Holmes
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12-04-2012, 10:45 AM
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#81
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Empire State Building - 86th Floor
Posts: 5,979
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Boehner criticizes Obama for not specifying his proposed spending cuts and Obama criticizes Boehner for not specifying details of his proposed plan to increase tax revenue by removing/capping certain deductions.
There are no adults in Washington.
__________________
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
- Albert Einstein
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12-04-2012, 10:46 AM
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#82
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: The vicinity of an area adjacent to a location
Posts: 9,981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan
There are no adults in Washington.
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It's the story that never ends.
__________________
Religion was invented when the first con man met the first fool -Mark Twain
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand -Milton Friedman
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. -Robert J. Hanlon
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12-04-2012, 10:47 AM
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#83
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exterous
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausm
What do you mean no Details? President Obama has been on the stump for a year Campaigning on the details of which he won the Election on so what's your point?
Who is talking about the campaign? We are discussing the actual proposals - not talking points
Quote:
which included $1.6 trillion in tax increases and $400 billion in future, unspecified spending cuts
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...-fiscal-cliff/
Quote:
In exchange, the officials said, President Barack Obama will support an unspecified amount of spending cuts this year
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireS...6#.UL4k8oM0WSo
Quote:
Obama also wants to eliminate unspecified deductions
http://bostonglobe.com/news/politics...JeL/story.html
Quote:
At heart of Obama's opening gambit in the negotiations is the call for $1.6 trillion in revenues, including $960 billion from raising the top marginal tax rates on wealthy Americans as well as higher taxes on capital gains and dividends and an additional $600 billion from unspecified revenue sources.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...eople/1737713/ |
Speaking of campaign, didn' Obama and everyone else bash Romney for not being specific in his plan? It's ok now?
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12-04-2012, 10:58 AM
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#84
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Lifer
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 23,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan
Link? Or are you making this up?
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The approach is called Dynamic Scoring, where you attempt to model the 2nd..nth order impact of the policy on revenue. Needless to say, not exactly easy or accurate, given that you're looking at a very complex, nonlinear system.
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2...liff-tax-hikes
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?se...rld&id=8907105
Quote:
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"Boehner signaled in discussions with Obama in 2011 that he was willing to accept up to $800 billion in higher tax revenues, but his aides maintained that much of that money would have come from so-called dynamic scoring - a conservative approach in which economic growth would have accounted for much of the revenue. Now, Boehner is willing to accept the estimates of official scorekeepers like the Congressional Budget Office, whose models reject dynamic scoring."
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SamurAchzar
It seems like people want to bend reality any way they wish. Jobs are created by economic activity, and this economic activity happens because of self-made people of all races and colors that are motivated by greed. The sooner we understand it the better we are.
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12-04-2012, 11:07 AM
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#85
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Empire State Building - 86th Floor
Posts: 5,979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halik
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From your 2nd link:
Quote:
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Boehner is willing to accept the estimates of official scorekeepers like the Congressional Budget Office, whose models reject dynamic scoring.
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__________________
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
- Albert Einstein
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12-04-2012, 11:12 AM
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#86
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Olathe, KS
Posts: 6,479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0me0nesmind1
Hate to say you're an idiot... and I'm not defending Republicans here - but the blame is automatically directed to whichever party is POTUS - regardless. The general public is always and forever will be that stupid. And hate to break it to you, but republicans are talking. Republicans are branching off from their stance of not raising taxes. Obama is throwing them a bone without the steak.
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I know all this. I was the first to report in P&N about GOP breaking rank on tax talks 
__________________
"A mind full of questions and a teacher in my soul" - Eddie Vedder
Political Correctness: A doctrine which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Mike Gayner: Partisanship is the most retarded aspect of politics because it forces you to leave your brain at the door.
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12-04-2012, 11:43 AM
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#87
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Corner of FORECLOSURE and BÅNKRUPTCY ST.
Posts: 7,955
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LOL DeMint is railing against Boehner's plan! GOP is so fucked.
__________________
Nemesis 1: Above your age please. The climate is in fact warmer now . Maybe this erection will cool things down mother earth shes hot.
pcgeek11: IMO: Being gay is not a minority. It is a genetic defect
Idontcare: dank69 is hereby permabanned.
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12-04-2012, 12:03 PM
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#88
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Empire State Building - 86th Floor
Posts: 5,979
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dank69
LOL DeMint is railing against Boehner's plan! GOP is so fucked.
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If the GOP and Obama come up with a reasonable plan...it will need significant Dem support to get it passed. The Tea Party does not play nice.
__________________
"A knowledge of the existence of something we cannot penetrate, of the manifestations of the profoundest reason and the most radiant beauty, which are only accessible to our reason in their most elementary forms—it is this knowledge and this emotion that constitute the truly religious attitude; in this sense, and in this alone, I am a deeply religious man."
- Albert Einstein
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12-04-2012, 12:06 PM
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#89
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Diamond Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Corner of FORECLOSURE and BÅNKRUPTCY ST.
Posts: 7,955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan
If the GOP and Obama come up with a reasonable plan...it will need significant Dem support to get it passed. The Tea Party does not play nice.
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And if that does happen, Tea Party candidates will unseat "RINO" candidates in primaries all across the red states in 2014. 
__________________
Nemesis 1: Above your age please. The climate is in fact warmer now . Maybe this erection will cool things down mother earth shes hot.
pcgeek11: IMO: Being gay is not a minority. It is a genetic defect
Idontcare: dank69 is hereby permabanned.
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12-04-2012, 12:54 PM
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#90
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Lifer
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Earth
Posts: 32,993
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Savage Fan
Boehner criticizes Obama for not specifying his proposed spending cuts and Obama criticizes Boehner for not specifying details of his proposed plan to increase tax revenue by removing/capping certain deductions.
There are no adults in Washington.
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Like I said earlier in this thread. Neither side is taking this serious. Even if Obama gets everything he wants we dont cut a cent while increasing revenues. It put such a small dent in the deficit why bother? Republicans have an idea on cutting spending while increasing revenues. But even their proposal falls far short of doing anything substantial about deficit spending.
But this is what the American people want. To continue until it all comes crashing down.
__________________
"Communism can be defined as the longest route from capitalism to capitalism."
"Capitalism is the unequal distribution of wealth. Socialism is the equal distribution of poverty"
"The Democrats seems to be the kind of people who switch to Geico and lose money." -Jon Stewert
Failure of Public Education
Global Warming causes this
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12-04-2012, 01:25 PM
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#91
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Lifer
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 13,194
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Rich people will be paying an Obammacare tax on income from Dividends under the O'Bammacare. They will also pay an O'Bammacare tax on regular income. This all triggered by some arbitrary set amount of income. So the rich people will already be getting a tax increase along with everyone else.
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