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Old 12-03-2012, 02:26 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by akugami View Post
Yes, it is relevant. You were trying to paint it as if iOS was the only thing that hasn't moved forward by leaps and bounds. The truth is that ever since iOS, things have been relatively stagnant in terms of mobile UI design. Apple's iOS was the first to put together the various UI elements that are now taken for granted in both iOS and Android and which have largely remained unchanged.
No I wasn't... but I thought it best to talk about Apple (instead of Android) in a thread about the iPhone.

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From a technical and features standpoint, yes you can do more with Android. Android has also introduced elements that have certainly improved touch based UI's. But Android has also been more of a "me too" product in terms of the major elements of the UI. All of the major grunt work was done by Apple putting together the "whole package" in iOS.
Android's lack of being truly revolutionary is a matter for another thread, that you're perfectly free to start.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:30 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by TuxDave View Post
Exactly this.
WinMo 6.5? It was great to have a computer in your hand! Except you still needed to click the start button, then programs, and then run stuff. Terrible.

And then you had the T-mobile G1. I don't remember what Android was capable of back then but what a craptacular screen.

Then iPhone came out and people realized that hey, maybe we should make the screen great, focus on touch/UX and go make a huge app library. What a relief.
I had a Nokia N95 and it was pretty awesome. The LG Prada was pretty good in form factor and having touch screen ability but the software was lacking. What the iPhone really excelled was the integration with iTunes for apps. That was the real gamechanger besides that you can see elements of influence from phones prior.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:50 PM   #103
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It sounds more like we're talking about different time tables (8 months vs. ~12 months). I bought the iPhone 5 about 11 months after I bought the iPhone 4S. I paid $220 to AT&T to cancel my account vs. $250 for an early upgrade fee. Is it a deal? Sort of. The difference between retail and on-contract is $450. Essentially, our contracts are nothing more than short-term loans... so much that they perform credit checks prior to opening an account.

Keep in mind that the early upgrade fee is worse the longer that you spend on your contract because the fee doesn't change.
I don't even know how we got here. So tell me why you think it's financially better to upgrade early vs waiting out 9 month so that you don't pay the upgrade fee or etf?

Just focus on the financial aspect and not any intrinsic value in possessing the phone.
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:52 PM   #104
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Originally Posted by TuxDave View Post
Exactly this.
WinMo 6.5? It was great to have a computer in your hand! Except you still needed to click the start button, then programs, and then run stuff. Terrible.

And then you had the T-mobile G1. I don't remember what Android was capable of back then but what a craptacular screen.

Then iPhone came out and people realized that hey, maybe we should make the screen great, focus on touch/UX and go make a huge app library. What a relief.
The G1 and WinMo 6.5 actually both came after the iPhone - and the G1 had roughly the same screen as the iPhone, whereas WM6.5 phones typically had better - they had 800x480 while the iPhone was still sitting at 480x320.

I would assume that you're more referring to the true pre-iPhone devices like WM5 (the T-Mobile Dash or Motorola Q), older BlackBerry phones, or the Nokia N95.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:02 PM   #105
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The G1 and WinMo 6.5 actually both came after the iPhone - and the G1 had roughly the same screen as the iPhone, whereas WM6.5 phones typically had better - they had 800x480 while the iPhone was still sitting at 480x320.

I would assume that you're more referring to the true pre-iPhone devices like WM5 (the T-Mobile Dash or Motorola Q), older BlackBerry phones, or the Nokia N95.
No I picked those phone specifically because they represent the same tech age and so could've potentially had what the others had. And since it takes time to make things, they each represented each company's decisions without knowing what the other person was doing.

The resolution may have been similar but the brightness and viewing angles were terrible and the ux was in the stone ages.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:17 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by TuxDave View Post
I don't even know how we got here. So tell me why you think it's financially better to upgrade early vs waiting out 9 month so that you don't pay the upgrade fee or etf?

Just focus on the financial aspect and not any intrinsic value in possessing the phone.
The phone's base price - what I paid = subsidy
$850 - $400 = $450.

I left my plan after 11 months, how much was left of the subsidy?
13/24 * $450 = $243.75.

I paid a $210 Early Termination Fee. How much did I save?
$243.75 - $210 = $33.75

Technically, I did not have to pay for $33.75 of my phone.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:30 PM   #107
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The phone's base price - what I paid = subsidy
$850 - $400 = $450.

I left my plan after 11 months, how much was left of the subsidy?
9/20 * $450 = $202.50.

I paid a $210 Early Termination Fee. How much did I save?
$202.50 - $210 = ($7.50)

Technically, I did not have to pay for $33.75 of my phone.
Fixed a little for you (you're still missing the point that 20mo allows you to upgrade). So 11 months in, you're close to the break even but not positive. So it didn't really save you anything. And we're still not really talking about the same thing. Unfortunately my brain is too tired to explain.
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Last edited by TuxDave; 12-03-2012 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:32 PM   #108
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Fixed a little for you (you're still missing the point that 20mo allows you to upgrade). So 11 months in, you're close to the break even but not positive. So it didn't really save you anything.
What sort of contract are you on? I'm pretty certain that I have to wait two years, but I can pay fees to upgrade slightly earlier.

Also, I switched carriers because I wanted LTE. I'm satisfied with LTE, but I'm not satisfied with Verizon's implementation of it.
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Old 12-03-2012, 03:39 PM   #109
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What sort of contract are you on? I'm pretty certain that I have to wait two years, but I can pay fees to upgrade slightly earlier.

Also, I switched carriers because I wanted LTE. I'm satisfied with LTE, but I'm not satisfied with Verizon's implementation of it.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showpost...7&postcount=16

Which I think lots of people do:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/ericsavi...hone-upgrades/
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:29 AM   #110
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No I wasn't... but I thought it best to talk about Apple (instead of Android) in a thread about the iPhone.
Your post history says otherwise.

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Android's lack of being truly revolutionary is a matter for another thread, that you're perfectly free to start.
Well, this thread is about Apple iPhone sales. Discussions change. I own both iOS and Android devices. I work with Android software and have input into the testing and the design phase of said proprietary Android software.

If Apple users should be demanding more from Apple's iOS, then Android users should be bringing pitchforks and torches to Google's office for having such a derivative OS that has copied pretty much every major part of it's UI from Apple's iOS excepting notifications and widgets. Even then those were not original Google inventions.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:40 AM   #111
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Your post history says otherwise.
So what. You're still wrong about what you claimed.

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Well, this thread is about Apple iPhone sales. Discussions change. I own both iOS and Android devices. I work with Android software and have input into the testing and the design phase of said proprietary Android software.
Good for you.

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If Apple users should be demanding more from Apple's iOS, then Android users should be bringing pitchforks and torches to Google's office for having such a derivative OS that has copied pretty much every major part of it's UI from Apple's iOS excepting notifications and widgets. Even then those were not original Google inventions.
You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:50 AM   #112
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You're entitled to your opinion, no matter how wrong it is.
Android's origin is a derivative of iOS. The soft keys and qwerty keyboard suggests that Google never envisioned the smartphone UI being what it is now.

Google knows this and has taken steps to differentiate itself over the years.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:56 AM   #113
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Android exists as it is because of Apple - fact
the only good non Apple shit Android had when it came out was something Google copied from Palm - fact

/thread
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:59 AM   #114
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Android's origin is a derivative of iOS. The soft keys and qwerty keyboard suggests that Google never envisioned the smartphone UI being what it is now.

Google knows this and has taken steps to differentiate itself over the years.
I meant the pitchforks and torches bit; the relative imbalance between what Android and Apple users are to demand.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:14 PM   #115
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Android exists as it is because of Apple - fact
the only good non Apple shit Android had when it came out was something Google copied from Palm - fact

/thread
iOS only exists as it it because of Androd. Fact.
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:22 PM   #116
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Android exists as it is because of Apple - fact
the only good non Apple shit Android had when it came out was something Google copied from Palm - fact

/thread
And both iOS and Android are the benefactors of numerous ideas that predate them. What exactly is your point? That it is OK to copy as long as you are the first one to do it well?
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Old 12-04-2012, 12:23 PM   #117
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iOS only exists as it it because of Androd. Fact.
yeah except uhhhh Android originally was going to look like the sh*tty Black Berry OS. Apple has copied about 3 things from Android, where Android copied the entire base of their OS. There's no comparison here. But the main thing they copied that's in Android was in WebOS 1st, so technically they didn't even copy it from Android.


if Android had never came out, iOS would be 99% like it is now.
Without iOS Android would probably still look like Windows Mobile 6.1. And even if it had evolved into something else, it damn sure wouldn't be the current Jelly Bean.
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Old 12-04-2012, 01:18 PM   #118
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And both iOS and Android are the benefactors of numerous ideas that predate them. What exactly is your point? That it is OK to copy as long as you are the first one to do it well?
It's the fact that iOS has reshaped the entire industry. Back in 2007 how many of you were nonbelievers? I was. I didn't care about UI. I thought that my phone had wifi, it could tether, it had MMS, it could browse, it had flash support, it had xenon flash, a 5MP camera, video recording, FM radio, more apps, turn by turn navigation, etc.

After using an iPod Touch side by side for 2 years, you bet I was singing a different tune. While it took til the iPhone 3GS for my phone to start showing its age, I preferred using the iPod touch as long as I had wifi. The UI was far better.

Android 2.x was a rushed hackjob to provide iOS-like functionality. TouchWiz was a complete iOS copycat job. At least you can argue Sense came from TouchFlo and was at least unique.

With Android on 4.x now, and the looks shifting away from iOS, TouchWiz is really what's holding back the Holo UI and still trying to keep the iOS looks around.

I think copying is bad in general, but you have to look at why people copy. Copy for functionality like having a notification bar is understandable. But copying because you need to desperately jump into the market is bad. Look at Android tablets round 1 in 2011. That was a major fail.

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yeah except uhhhh Android originally was going to look like the sh*tty Black Berry OS. Apple has copied about 3 things from Android, where Android copied the entire base of their OS. There's no comparison here. But the main thing they copied that's in Android was in WebOS 1st, so technically they didn't even copy it from Android.


if Android had never came out, iOS would be 99% like it is now.
Without iOS Android would probably still look like Windows Mobile 6.1. And even if it had evolved into something else, it damn sure wouldn't be the current Jelly Bean.
True story. Look at those who argued that iOS was stupid and the UI was trash. That's Nokia and their Symbian OS. S60v5 in 2009? LOL.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:05 PM   #119
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yeah except uhhhh Android originally was going to look like the sh*tty Black Berry OS. Apple has copied about 3 things from Android, where Android copied the entire base of their OS. There's no comparison here. But the main thing they copied that's in Android was in WebOS 1st, so technically they didn't even copy it from Android.


if Android had never came out, iOS would be 99% like it is now.
Without iOS Android would probably still look like Windows Mobile 6.1. And even if it had evolved into something else, it damn sure wouldn't be the current Jelly Bean.
I agree. It is the jailbreak community that has made iOS what it is today, not Android.
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Old 12-04-2012, 02:38 PM   #120
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Apple had some UI design advantages because of their knowledge with MAC OS. Pretty icons in a grid but a lot of the gestures and stuff can be seen in previous devices.

IE: Neonode N1m released back in Australia in 2005. (swipe to right to answer / unlock, etc).

Video footage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj-KS2kfIr0
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:34 PM   #121
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ITT: Revisionist history.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:50 PM   #122
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I agree. It is the jailbreak community that has made iOS what it is today, not Android.
The basic UI yes but not with things like notifications, voice commands, wireless syncing, etc etc.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:18 PM   #123
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Apple had some UI design advantages because of their knowledge with MAC OS. Pretty icons in a grid but a lot of the gestures and stuff can be seen in previous devices.

IE: Neonode N1m released back in Australia in 2005. (swipe to right to answer / unlock, etc).
That's considered a lot of gestures?
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:23 PM   #124
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That's considered a lot of gestures?
Clearly all gestures are just derivatives of a left to right swipe! Sometimes it just changes directions, or there's multiples of them, or they get all curvy and stuff! Clearly very obvious.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:26 PM   #125
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The basic UI yes but not with things like notifications, voice commands, wireless syncing, etc etc.
I disagree. I had wireless syncing, voice commands and better notifications with JB apps long before Apple implemented them into the core operating system. The same can be said for:

Folders
Multitasking
Backgrounded apps
Third party executables
App Store
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Just to name a few. I have a hard time thinking of a ground breaking feature that wasn't available from a jailbreak first honestly. It is the ultimate feature test bed for Apple. They can take the best ideas and roll them into iOS and never need to worry about patent disputes.
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