Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Hardware and Technology > Computer Help

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals
· Free Stuff
· Contests and Sweepstakes
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-02-2012, 12:45 PM   #1
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default Shutting down under load

Can't remember my old account login info:/

Recently, 400watt psu died. I think. Computer would not turn on. Replaced with this 850w psu, and computer powers fine.

Specs
not overclocked
ASUS P5NSLI
C2D E6300 w stock fan
dvdrw drive
blu ray rw drive
internal card reader
dual tv tuner
MSI 7600gs passively cooled/no fan
firewire pci card
4gb ddr2 800 ram
WD 250GB HD
120mm rear fan blowing out. no fans blowing in.

Idle specs-



The shut down problem started when I was watching TV via media center, watching a web video, surfing, and had both monitors running. Something I've done off/on for years.I first thought it was my video card overheating. Rebooted, cranked everything up, and monitored the temp. It hit 73c and shut down..
Then I noticed my cpu temp and looked into it. I downloaded and ran Intelburntest. 10 seconds later, my cpu hit 74c and shut down.
I opened my case, blew everything dust free, made sure all fans were running. Setup a small house fan blowing directly on cpu. Ran IBT again with case open. It hit 71c and shut down.

Ran 3dMark05 with case closed: computer shutdown during cpu test.
Ran 3dMark05 with case open: Completed all tests. Vid card hit 75c, cpu 71c.
My only thought so far, is adding more case fans will not lower my temps.

So is temperature is my problem? Is it possibly my psu is not sending enough power to the cpu? Is something just getting too old?(6 year old build.)
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 12:55 PM   #2
AnonymouseUser
Diamond Member
 
AnonymouseUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 8,329
Default

It's possible the old PSU damaged the motherboard when it died, so if possible, check the PSU in another PC to rule the PSU out.

Also, check your motherboard for bulging capacitors.
__________________
NSA Homeland Security PRISM Denial of service Malware Trojan Keylogger Cyber Command
2600 Backpack Phishing Rootkit Agro Eco terrorism Conventional weapon
Target Weapons grade Dirty bomb Enriched Nuclear Chemical Biological weapon Black out
Pressure Cooker Grid Power Smart Body scanner Electric Failure Ammonium nitrate Brown Out
Bridge Organized crime National security State emergency Security Breach Threat Standoff
SWAT Screening Virus Environmental Terrorist Dock
AnonymouseUser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 01:02 PM   #3
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

Don't have a second computer to check:/

I see no bulging or leaking capacitors. They all look very clean and shiny.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:14 PM   #4
Smoove910
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 993
Default

is there something in your BIOS to shut the computer down once it reaches a certain temp?
__________________
Mobo: Biostar TA880GU3+ uATX
Proc: AMD Phenom II 960T unlocked/6 cores @ 3.5ghz
Ram: (4) 4gb GSkill 1600mhz (16gb total)
HDDs: (2) 640GB WD AAKS, (1) 750GB Seagate Ext
Vid: Sapphire 6870 1gb DDR5 1000mhz core, 1100 mhz mem
Camera: Pentax K5, I'm not a Canikon fanboy.
Smoove910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:32 PM   #5
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

An hour ago, it shut down and all I was doing was light web browsing.

I shut down and restarted into the BIOS.
CPU INTERNAL THERMAL CONTROL: AUTO
Q-Fan was disabled. I enabled it. Don't know what it means.
My BIOS listed these temps:
CPU 52C
M/B 48C

There is nothing about a temp ceiling.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:45 PM   #6
AnonymouseUser
Diamond Member
 
AnonymouseUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 8,329
Default

Time to remove all but absolutely necessary to run the PC. Remove or disconnect the optical drives, card reader, tv tuner, and firewire card. Boot up, stress test, and see if it shuts down. If it lasts longer than usual, add one item back at a time until it shuts down again.
__________________
NSA Homeland Security PRISM Denial of service Malware Trojan Keylogger Cyber Command
2600 Backpack Phishing Rootkit Agro Eco terrorism Conventional weapon
Target Weapons grade Dirty bomb Enriched Nuclear Chemical Biological weapon Black out
Pressure Cooker Grid Power Smart Body scanner Electric Failure Ammonium nitrate Brown Out
Bridge Organized crime National security State emergency Security Breach Threat Standoff
SWAT Screening Virus Environmental Terrorist Dock
AnonymouseUser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 04:50 PM   #7
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseUser View Post
Time to remove all but absolutely necessary to run the PC. Remove or disconnect the optical drives, card reader, tv tuner, and firewire card. Boot up, stress test, and see if it shuts down. If it lasts longer than usual, add one item back at a time until it shuts down again.

Does that mean you're ruling out temperature?
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 05:00 PM   #8
AnonymouseUser
Diamond Member
 
AnonymouseUser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 8,329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cody0851 View Post
Does that mean you're ruling out temperature?
Your temps look fine, so yes. Especially if you're just browsing, there's no reason for it to overheat.
__________________
NSA Homeland Security PRISM Denial of service Malware Trojan Keylogger Cyber Command
2600 Backpack Phishing Rootkit Agro Eco terrorism Conventional weapon
Target Weapons grade Dirty bomb Enriched Nuclear Chemical Biological weapon Black out
Pressure Cooker Grid Power Smart Body scanner Electric Failure Ammonium nitrate Brown Out
Bridge Organized crime National security State emergency Security Breach Threat Standoff
SWAT Screening Virus Environmental Terrorist Dock
AnonymouseUser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 05:09 PM   #9
Steltek
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,451
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cody0851 View Post
An hour ago, it shut down and all I was doing was light web browsing.

I shut down and restarted into the BIOS.
CPU INTERNAL THERMAL CONTROL: AUTO
Q-Fan was disabled. I enabled it. Don't know what it means.
My BIOS listed these temps:
CPU 52C
M/B 48C

There is nothing about a temp ceiling.
Yeah, that motherboard is old enough that it while it does very basic temperature and voltage monitoring I don't think that the BIOS has anything beyond minimal protection functionality. All Q-Fan does is allow the system to automatically adjust fan speeds to try to keep the noise levels down. It being disabled wouldn't cause this problem.

Just to be certain, when you say it dies you do mean that it goes totally dead (i.e. all fans - CPU and case - stop and lights/LEDs turn off, etc) and not that the screen just goes blank?

Does the system shut down if you boot from a Linux live CD and browse the internet?

It might be worth trying to run a couple of MEMTEST86+ passes on each memory module to ensure that nothing is wrong with your memory. Also, re-seat your memory modules and all power connectors.
Steltek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 05:35 PM   #10
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

I just looked over my motherboard and made sure everything was plugged in well.
My card reader was dangling off the usb header. I plugged that in, and stress tested. No change.
For giggles, I ran safe mode and stress tested. It lasted 15 seconds before dying.
By dying, I mean the whole computer powers off, immediately.
Just further fyi, my computer, monitor, router, and cable modem are plugged into a year old 1100w battery backup.

Will look into memtest now. I haven't tried a live Linux cd.

Last edited by cody0851; 12-02-2012 at 05:37 PM.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 05:36 PM   #11
ketchup79
Diamond Member
 
ketchup79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 6,085
Default

Do you get a blue screen at all?
__________________
Intel Core i5-2500k | Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 | 8 GB DDR3 | Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 | Antec EarthWatts EA-650 BRONZE | Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB | COOLER MASTER CM Storm Series Trooper | COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO
ketchup79 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 05:51 PM   #12
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

No blue screen. Just straight dead like a power outage.

Just tried to burn memtest to cd.. My drive has power, but isn't communicating with the m/b. Examined the sata port, and the whole plugs falls off the m/b.

Well, I guess I'll use the blu ray burner. lol

Also, noticed my computers clock is 5 minutes slow. First time it has been wrong in ages.

Last edited by cody0851; 12-02-2012 at 05:55 PM.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 05:59 PM   #13
ketchup79
Diamond Member
 
ketchup79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 6,085
Default

Sounds like the old ps fried some things on the mobo. Had that happen to a customer once.
__________________
Intel Core i5-2500k | Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 | 8 GB DDR3 | Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 | Antec EarthWatts EA-650 BRONZE | Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB | COOLER MASTER CM Storm Series Trooper | COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO
ketchup79 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 06:42 PM   #14
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

Ran 1 pass of memtest. No errors.

Tomorrow morning, I'm going to put in a different psu, just to try to rule the new one out. If this m/b is indeed shot, I'll be forced to make a decision. Just buy a massive laptop, and go without a desktop - or build a massive desktop and go for a cheap laptop with an ssd. Been contemplating that for at least a year, while trying to squeeze the life out of my current desktop and laptop.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 06:44 PM   #15
Steltek
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 1,451
Default

Just to make sure your UPS isn't dying, does it shut down the same way if you bypass the UPS and plug straight into the wall? It also wouldn't hurt to pull all of your add-in cards except the video card to totally eliminate the chance that one of the cards is failing and tripping the power supply.

If neither of these things pan out, I really think you'll need to be in the market for a new motherboard. It is still possible to get a relatively cheap Socket 775 board for $40-$60 (ASUS, Gigabyte, and ECS), though almost all of them are micro-ATX (i.e. make sure to get one with enough PCI slots for your add-in cards) and DDR3 (4GB of DDR3 is pretty dirt cheap nowadays).

Last edited by Steltek; 12-02-2012 at 06:50 PM.
Steltek is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 08:54 PM   #16
jolancer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 469
Default

I thought it a good idea to always take software temp monitoring with a grain of salt. Also just fyi, i had a bios battery die once, and a no power up was the symptom, i dont know what other symptoms if any a low or dead bios battery may cause.

I'd plug a periferal such as a fan or watever into your old 400w psu, and test that to see if its actually dead by jumping the Green/Black pins on the MB power connetor, and see if it powers up.

if you old psu isn't dead, id try a new battery for bios

if old psu is dead, i'd replace thermal compound on your CPU / Northbridge chip. with AS5 or whatever is used these days, It use to be cheap. easy fix if temp is the issue, as long as the new compound is properly applied. ArcticSilver5s website use to have really good instructions.

I only say northbridge also because i had boards with fanless northbridges to ofcourse and some i notice come with some flacky compound or pad... but would get feel dam hot for being fanless ( i personlly just mod'd a fan on mine set to lower rpm along with new compound)... as long as its in close enough contact(like right on the fins) because the windchill of the fan blades is what primarily drops the temp.

EDIT: oh yeah dont know what your stock HSF looks like, but if its anything like those old P4 HSF's, and you did *Not stick the nozzle to the pray can directly threw the fins onto the hsf.. may help to remove the Fan and wipe the top of the HSF off were the fins are spreading, you'd be saprized how much shit can be hidden under that fan... a thin unseen but even layer of dust even can show an increase in temp just by the area its spread over.

Last edited by jolancer; 12-02-2012 at 09:04 PM.
jolancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-02-2012, 11:34 PM   #17
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

I tried the green/black trick with a fan, 2 optical drives, and my hd still attached. The optical drives lights blinked and then nothing. Pretty sure if it wasn't dead, it is now.

I definitely got under the fan blades. I sprayed the canned air while the comp was running just to see if I could drop the temps. lol.. and no, it didn't work. I'll look again. I may pull the fan off just out of curiosity.

This m/b was known to have a hot fanless northbridge when it came out. As old as it is, I'm scared to start wiggling/pulling on things. It might just break in my hands. 2 SATA ports have already fallen off:/

On my list tomorrow:
1. Bypass battery backup
2. Try different psu
3. Unplug cards
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 12:19 AM   #18
jolancer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 469
Default

Jumping the PSU when its not attached to the MB is different then jumping the MB's power switch in that, you have to leave the paper clip jumped between the green/black, if you remove it it powers off. is that what you did?

Dont worry about messing with the components, unless you mess everythying up like gorrilla grip everything. only thing htat changes over time is the thermal compound under the heatsinks, so if you mess with them just clean and replace the compound. an make sure your prepared2 befor messing with them.
jolancer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 12:56 AM   #19
Torn Mind
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2,192
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jolancer View Post

EDIT: oh yeah dont know what your stock HSF looks like, but if its anything like those old P4 HSF's, and you did *Not stick the nozzle to the pray can directly threw the fins onto the hsf.. may help to remove the Fan and wipe the top of the HSF off were the fins are spreading, you'd be saprized how much shit can be hidden under that fan... a thin unseen but even layer of dust even can show an increase in temp just by the area its spread over.
Ha. the Socket 478 heatsink I have accumulated such a thick layer of dust that was more like a thick pad. I had to take off the heatsink, remove the fan, and pull off the dust with toilet paper.
__________________
SR061| Asrock H77M | 2x2GB G.Skill 1333Mhz NS RAM | PowerSpec TX-606 Case| 500GB 7200RPM Seagate Drive| Antec Eartwatts EA-500 (2006) | Asus DVD Burner | parallell and COM port header | Old Dell Keyboard
http://www.heatware.com/eval.php?id=93090
Torn Mind is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 04:36 AM   #20
daveybrat
Diamond Member
 
daveybrat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 3,376
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cody0851 View Post
An hour ago, it shut down and all I was doing was light web browsing.

I shut down and restarted into the BIOS.
CPU INTERNAL THERMAL CONTROL: AUTO
Q-Fan was disabled. I enabled it. Don't know what it means.
My BIOS listed these temps:
CPU 52C
M/B 48C

There is nothing about a temp ceiling.
What are you all talking about?

Seriously, 52C idling in the bios for this cpu?? Way too hot!

Your E6300 is only a Core2Duo 1.86GHz 65Watt cpu. There is no way it should be putting off that much heat while idle in the bios.

And the shutdowns you describe sound exactly like cpu built-in thermal protection.

Get yourself a new heatsink/fan or take yours off, clean the old grease off and re-grease it properly.
__________________
Heatware

Gaming Rig: AMD Phenom II 960T@3.5GHz (CM Hyper 212+)| 8GB GSkill Sniper DDR3 | Crucial M500 240GB SSD | WD 640GB Black | MSI GTX 660 Twin-Frozer III | Asus Xonar DG | Windows 7 64-Bit
daveybrat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 07:38 AM   #21
Eureka
Diamond Member
 
Eureka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,826
Default

It could be CPU overheat. Thermal paste will degrade over time, and it's not a bad idea to pull off the HSF to reapply.

That being said, I've never had a direct shutoff from thermal protection. It'll usually throttle first before anything else, with a very noticeable computer stutter. Won't hurt to reply though.
__________________
San Francisco: ASRock Z87E-ITX | Intel i7-4770k | 16 GB DDR3 1600 | Gigabyte WF3 7950
Honolulu: Gigabyte MA790X-UD4P | AMD Phenom II X4 955 | 8GB DDR2 800 | Sapphire HD4890
London: ASRock 4CoreDual-VSTA | Intel Dual Core E7400 @ 3.1ghz | 2GB DDR2 667 | ATi X850 XT @ 540/590
Eureka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 11:19 AM   #22
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

Ok, I am thoroughly perplexed. I plugged my computer straight to wall socket. I ran IBT, and even though CPU temp hit 80c, it didn't die. I figured aha! The backup is the problem.

I plugged it back into the battery backup. Ran IBT, temp hit 80c. It won't die.

My laptop used to shutdown exactly like this when it got too hot. I blew out the vents. Problem solved. So yes, everything points me to temp being the problem. Except why is it running just fine under stress at 80c today, and died at 71c yesterday?

As I type this, without load, CPUID says my cores are 66c and 71c.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 11:29 AM   #23
ketchup79
Diamond Member
 
ketchup79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 6,085
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cody0851 View Post
Ok, I am thoroughly perplexed. I plugged my computer straight to wall socket. I ran IBT, and even though CPU temp hit 80c, it didn't die. I figured aha! The backup is the problem.

I plugged it back into the battery backup. Ran IBT, temp hit 80c. It won't die.

My laptop used to shutdown exactly like this when it got too hot. I blew out the vents. Problem solved. So yes, everything points me to temp being the problem. Except why is it running just fine under stress at 80c today, and died at 71c yesterday?

As I type this, without load, CPUID says my cores are 66c and 71c.
Many things can cause a CPU to let you down like that, Mem, Mobo, PS, heat. I would start by re-applying thermal material to the CPU.

I would also keep it off the battery back up for a little while (day or two). Plugging it back in after an extended period will do a better job of telling you what the culprit it.
__________________
Intel Core i5-2500k | Gigabyte GA-Z68X-UD3H-B3 | 8 GB DDR3 | Gigabyte GeForce GTX 660 | Antec EarthWatts EA-650 BRONZE | Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB | COOLER MASTER CM Storm Series Trooper | COOLER MASTER Hyper 212 EVO
ketchup79 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 11:33 AM   #24
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

Ahh. Killed it after I typed my last message. CPUID showed 74c when it shut off.

Maybe everything wasn't properly warmed up yet, as I started all this after it sat off all night. Now that I've killed it, I'm going to start ruling out my batt backup, and psu.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 02:34 PM   #25
cody0851
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 35
Default

Ok.. Ruled out my batt backup, by plugging into wall. It died during IBT.
Plugged back into batt backup. Unplugged both optical drives from psu. Ran IBT and it went through all 10 tests. CPUID showed temp between 76 and 83c during test.
Plugged blu ray burner back in. Ran IBT, and same thing - all 10 tests passed, temp between 76 and 83c.
Left dvd burner unplugged. It's not plugged into m/b anyway.
Turned on my tv. It's plugged into the same outlet as my batt backup. Ran IBT. Computer died during 1st or 2nd test.
Turned off tv. IBT finished all 10 tests. Temp reached 85c consistently.
Turned on TV. Computer died during 7th or 8th test. Temp stayed 83c or lower.


Honestly, I need a break. I really appreciate all the advice from everyone. This thing is really eating up all of our time.
cody0851 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.