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Old 11-29-2012, 06:16 PM   #1
Tesla1856
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Question Intel Enthusiasts Chipset Roadmap 2013

I have an Intel i7-930 and x58 chipset based system ... enthusiasts level. I'm thinking of giving this system to my "gamer" wife and building another for myself ... future proofed as much as possible.

I'm having some trouble finding the Intel roadmaps. It almost looks like Socket-2011 is dead? We went from x79 to z77. Has the enthusiasts desktop or extreme gamer platform been deleted from Intel's roadmap?

Maybe normal desktop is so good now, if you want more for gaming or workstation ... you move up to Xeon and workstation/server board (which I likely would not do ... I have a budget and still need to buy some more large IPS based LCDs).

What chipset should I be looking at or waiting for? Somewhere on the "tock" side of the tick-tock I think, right?

I'm thinking of a build like this ... best Intel desktop processor (maybe a clock step-down to same some bucks ... but same architecture). Best AMD video card released at time of purchase. I want at least one x16 PCIe v3.0 slot ... maybe two. Quad channel memory. Full ATX tower with closed-loop liquid cooling (maybe even liquid cool the video card).

Since I can't have a Sig. yet, I will edit and post it here:

Intel i7-930 Quad (2.8 Ghz) ~ X58 chipset ~ Asetek liquid cooler ~ 12gb ddr3-1333 tri-channel ram ~ ATI-AMD HD-5870 1gb ~ 256gb Samsung 830 SSD / 1tb WD 7200rpm HDD ~ LG-BluRay burner ~ PCIe USB 3.0 ~ 875w PS ~ Dell 24" UltraSharp u2410 LCD ~ Dell 22" LCD ~ Win-7 Ultimate 64-bit

Last edited by Tesla1856; 11-30-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:28 PM   #2
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I think most people have smartened up ... and no longer employ your strategy.

You build is in the $3500+ neighborhood.

A good LGA2011 chips is $600+
A good LGA2011 Mobo is $500
You will need a good PSU, case... 32GB DDR3 @2133mhz...

Video card another $500....

Sure it would be a beast of a system but you can achieve basically a near result for half the price with an upper level but higher value Z77 build today.

Asrock Z77 will only be 100-$200. A 3770k $250
Perhaps near cost of the PSU and case.
DDR3 can be stepped down to 16GB, only like $60


The videocard is what it is. But not buying the very best and buying a level down often provides plenty of performance with a huge cost savings.

I think that is what most people are doing today. Mostly for budget reason. party for intelligence and understanding- That more is not really needed unless your really doing something crazy.

An OC-ed 2700k or 3770k even with mild OC, and a big beasty SSD like Vertex4/Vector Samsung 840/Pro... 16GB DDR3... on Z77 is really pretty fast.

You'd be very surprised how much power it has compared to your more expensive system at the time.

I don't think there is many reasons or applications out there that demand more. Certainly gaming doesn't.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:36 PM   #3
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http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...2.80GHz&id=835

5039 vs 9658 Passmark scores for your i7 vs 3770k stock.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...0+3.50GHz&id=2


That's a significant difference.

I am not aware of a PC application or process that will require a CPU with greater than 10k passmark levels.

Sure you might save a little time on encoding... but other that that ???

I'd rather keep the extra $1500 in my pocket so I can justify upgrading the board and CPU that much sooner... with the funds.

Future proofing- is the opposite of what I try to go.

I try to keep on the higher end... for the lowest price possible.

I often want to upgrade before I need to do it. That's half the fun. I do it with the money I saved buy buying high value performance... and not extreme performance at high cost.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:52 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I think most people have smartened up ... and no longer employ your strategy.
Mfusick,

Thanks for the quick reply. Definitely some good ideas to "take one step back" to same some bucks. I was planning on doing some of that.

I probably shouldn't have mentioned my build ideas because I'm not really ready to get into all that. What I really need to know is the Intel Desktop Enthusiast's Roadmap.

I'm a Software Developer. I need speed for:
Compiling programs
Encoding Videos
AMD Eyefinity gaming setup

And yes, I don't think I'll ever use a machine without a nice SSD on the main boot drive again (OS and main programs). I'm running a Samsung 830 256gb on this box. Maybe a 840-Pro will work nicely on the next one.

Last edited by Tesla1856; 11-29-2012 at 11:59 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:56 PM   #5
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Compiling programs
Encoding Videos
AMD Eyefinity gaming setup
LGA1155 / 3770K / Z77 is great for these purposes
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:53 PM   #6
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Question x79

This is the most future Intel Roadmap I have found so far.

http://www.brightsideofnews.com/news...n-q3-2013.aspx

So, x79 replacement is un-named because x79 is going to be around quite a while? If we can discuss this, it would be great ... don't worry about the money and parts so much.

Target is Blue 38xx-39xx K is cool (not X ) ... just wish I could get a 6-core (12 thread) without going X ($$$$).

Too bad the specs chart is so small ... notice no PCIe Gen 3.0 top on X-chips?
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:15 AM   #7
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If your compiler benefits from 6(12) cores then you'll get around 40% better performance in that activity from X79.
If you need more than 16GB of RAM then you'll also benefit from X79.
If you need the additional PCI-E bandwidth because you are running 3 GPUs or high end Raid cards then you'll benefit from X79.

If you're overclocking then you'll mostly benefit from Z77, it overclocks better than X79/SB-E chips do. It also performs better on a single thread and it is a lot cheaper. You need to have specialist needs to consider anything other than Ivy Bridge right now, although bare in mind we are a quarter or so away from Intel's replacement for Ivy Bridge/Z77 so you may want to wait to see what Haswell brings.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:16 AM   #8
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2013 brings the 8 series chipset for LGA1150 with Haswell. LGA2011 on the other hand will still be X79.

8 series chipset got 6 SATA6 ports and 2 additional USB3 ports and its made on 32nm process instead of 65nm.

LGA2011 is a server/workstation platform. Its just bastardlized currently as "enthutiast". But the platform itself needs to wait for server validation, and that takes time, a long time.
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Old 11-30-2012, 10:23 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
I think most people have smartened up ... and no longer employ your strategy.

You build is in the $3500+ neighborhood.

A good LGA2011 chips is $600+
A good LGA2011 Mobo is $500
You will need a good PSU, case... 32GB DDR3 @2133mhz...

Video card another $500....

Sure it would be a beast of a system but you can achieve basically a near result for half the price with an upper level but higher value Z77 build today.

Asrock Z77 will only be 100-$200. A 3770k $250
Perhaps near cost of the PSU and case.
DDR3 can be stepped down to 16GB, only like $60


The videocard is what it is. But not buying the very best and buying a level down often provides plenty of performance with a huge cost savings.

I think that is what most people are doing today. Mostly for budget reason. party for intelligence and understanding- That more is not really needed unless your really doing something crazy.

An OC-ed 2700k or 3770k even with mild OC, and a big beasty SSD like Vertex4/Vector Samsung 840/Pro... 16GB DDR3... on Z77 is really pretty fast.

You'd be very surprised how much power it has compared to your more expensive system at the time.

I don't think there is many reasons or applications out there that demand more. Certainly gaming doesn't.
I completely disagree. While I'm not suggesting the OP goes with X79, your numbers are way off. The i7-3820 is a great chip and it's in the same price range as the i7-3770. There are many great motherboards on x79 that aren't $500. I really like the DX79SI and that's about $260. There's also no reason to not use cheap 1600MHz memory on a X79 board. Also no reason he would have to have 32GB. Even though X79 is quad channel there are still plenty of 2GB and 4GB modules available. Again, not saying there's anything wrong with the Z77 suggestion, but the cost difference is actually quite minimal unless you want a 6-core CPU or if you want to pay a huge premium for a 1-2% improvement in memory performance with 2133MHz modules.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:04 PM   #10
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Just to give you an idea on the life cycles of our processors. Desktop chipset have around a 1 year life cycle (we do keep a couple extented life boards that will hang around a little longer). Server products have at least 2 year life cycle. The nature of socket 2011 and only the boards and processors that use it are threated as server. So expect X79 chipset based boards to be around for a while.

Also remember none of the Roadmaps showed the Intel® Core™ i7-3970X Extreme Edition. So while this is our top of the line enthusiast processors and boards there is not a lot of released information on future products for it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 02:05 PM   #11
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reasons to get a socket 2011 system:
1. need more than 4 cores in one system
2. need more than 32GB RAM

if you don't fit in either category, you're probably better off with something else

that said, 2011 is far from dead. IVB-E will be released in a year or so (if we're lucky) and it will still be 2011

so 2011 won't be replaced until HW-E, which is 2-3 years away
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Old 11-30-2012, 03:48 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Future proofing- is the opposite of what I try to go.

I try to keep on the higher end... for the lowest price possible.
I try to future-proof (but still reasonable $$$) because I use the system for about 3 years (with minimal upgrades) and then I pass it down to my wife (sometimes with a new video card) and then she uses it another 2-3 years. Even then (5-6 years old), it might go to my brother or sister, or I swap-out/upgrade my Home-Theater Windows/XBMC Media-Server. The machines stay together because all the tech. inside matches. These quads have a lot of useful life in them. The money goes into buying new complete high-end systems on the front end of the cycle (not upgrades to old machines).

I can't have a sig. yet, so I edited and posted my current config at the bottom of my first post.

Last edited by Tesla1856; 11-30-2012 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by lehtv View Post
LGA1155 / 3770K / Z77 is great for these purposes
Sure, I understand what you are saying. I see your build ... it's very nice and balanced.

What Intel conciders "upper mainsteam" is already really nice. It's not the easy decision that i7-930/x58 was.

I guess I should mention that I don't OC my systems. But I don't trick-out my high-performance cars either ... just keep'em stock and well maintained by dealer. However, I think it's cool that others do it.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post
Full ATX tower with closed-loop liquid cooling (maybe even liquid cool the video card).
liquid cooling is dying as air cooling is improving (and is cheaper and easier and quieter)

for gaming, you're going to want the best single-core performance, and that's going to be Haswell when it comes out.

At that point, socket 2011 will be TWO generations behind

(here's a big virtual middle finger to Intel for that)

Last edited by tynopik; 11-30-2012 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 04:56 PM   #15
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Thanks for all the help guys. So, lets see if I got this right.

I want 6 core (12 thread) this time. But not Extreme (to save money and don't OC anyway). On the chart, I'm on the P2 line (Prem. Performance Level 2). I need to know processor and chipset (so I can shop MBs).

i7-3930K or i7-3970K ... both 6-core Socket 2011. The most affordable way to get a six-core processor. Will be true for all or most of next year. Even if a newer one appears, these will still be sold and just getting cheaper.

If I buy in Feb 2013, it will be on x79 (SandyBridge-E / Socket 2011)
- Quad Channel memory
- At least one full-bandwidth PCIe x16 v3.0 (but not PCIe v3.0 certified)

If I buy in Nov 2013, it will be on (x??) (SandyBridge-E / Socket 2011)
- Quad Channel memory (still ???) likely higher speed limit ???
- PCIe v3.0 certified. One or more full-bandwidth PCIe x16 v3.0
- Surely other cool new stuff ???

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ivy...obo,16588.html

Back to the un-certainty in the chipset (basically the whole motherboard tech). It and the CPU are a matched set, but they seem to "tick-tock" opposite each other. I understand it's not nailed down yet (to public) but it makes it hard to plan purchases.

Last edited by Tesla1856; 11-30-2012 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:09 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by tynopik View Post
liquid cooling is dying as air cooling is improving (and is cheaper and easier and quieter)

for gaming, you're going to want the best single-core performance, and that's going to be Haswell when it comes out.

At that point, socket 2011 will be TWO generations behind

(here's a big virtual middle finger to Intel for that)
Can you please provide links and docs about liquid cooling dying? I'm seeing the opposite. Even some of Intel's stock coolers (with boxed processors) are closed-loop liquid.

Maybe I'm way off here, but I would like to be able to AFFORDABLY liquid cool my GPU(s) also ... closed loop or otherwise.

You think Haswell will provide a 6-core CPU? I think that socket is too small.

If I'm understanding all this right, they are planning to keep the Socket 2011, but upgrade the chipset (which interfaces to everything else). System bandwidth increases and bottle-necks stay away. It's not Intel's "first rodeo" ... I trust they know what they are doing.

Last edited by Tesla1856; 11-30-2012 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post
You think Haswell will provide a 6-core CPU? I think that socket is too small.
not on the consumer (1150) side

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post
If I'm understanding all this right, they are planning to keep the Socket 2011, but upgrade the chipset (which interfaces to everything else). System bandwidth increases and bottle-necks stay away. It's not Intel's "first rodeo" ... I trust they know what they are doing.
the new 2011 chipset will provide minimal benefits, the main gain will be from IB-E itself.
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:31 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by IntelEnthusiast View Post
The nature of socket 2011 and only the boards and processors that use it are threated as server. So expect X79 chipset based boards to be around for a while.
Thanks for the reply. I could easily ask you a bunch of questions, but I'll try not to ... just an easy one...

Does x79 support PCIe v3.0 or not ? ... I mean at least one full x16 PCIe v3.0 (16 channels) ... should be a whole proper level faster than x16 PCIe v2.0.

The reason I ask is because this shows v2.0.
PCIe x16 2.0
http://ark.intel.com/products/64015/Intel-BD82X79-PCH
-
http://www.intel.com/content/www/xr/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/x79-express-chipset.html
-
http://www.intel.com/content/www/xr/en/chipsets/performance-chipsets/x79-express-chipset-diagram.html

And this article mentions it's not "certified" for it
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Ivy...obo,16588.html
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesla1856 View Post
Does x79 support PCIe v3.0 or not ? ... I mean at least one full x16 PCIe v3.0 (16 channels) ... should be a whole proper level faster than x16 PCIe v2.0.
It works for some combinations of boards/cpus/video cards and not others

you can research and see what combinations seem to work or if you want certified v3.0, stick with E5 Xeons (E5-1650 if you want 6 core) and the Romley platform

OTOH, v3.0 simply isn't that important. even if the interface was infinitely fast, there's only so much that would gain you
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Old 11-30-2012, 05:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by tynopik View Post
It works for some combinations of boards/cpus/video cards and not others

OTOH, v3.0 simply isn't that important. even if the interface was infinitely fast, there's only so much that would gain you
Ya, I can't handle weird compatibility problems. In fact, I would give up my 6-core and go mainsteam platform just to avoid them.

I think dual-gpu cards (on one slot) will start to benefit soon. In 3 years, PCIe v3.0 will be the common standard won't it? Think about how many generations of video cards we will go through between now and then.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:05 PM   #21
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if you want certified v3.0, stick with E5 Xeons (E5-1650 if you want 6 core) and the Romley platform
Xeon E5-1650 is 6 core and 12-threads ... nice. I guess I missed the fact that Hyper-Threading was back in/on some new Xeons.

I'm sure the motherboards are more expensive ... we are talking workstation-class here aren't we? I do have a budget ... I'll have to price them out I guess.

Do you know if you can game on a Xeon without compatibility problems? Or, is it like using an AMD CPU ... doesn't matter these days.

Last edited by Tesla1856; 11-30-2012 at 08:15 PM.
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Old 11-30-2012, 06:24 PM   #22
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no compatibility problems with xeons

a supermicro x9sra motherboard is $290
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:07 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by tynopik View Post
no compatibility problems with xeons

a supermicro x9sra motherboard is $290
Nice. What's missing over a high-end desktop board?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...rmicro%20x9sra

Look at all those PCIe slots and SATA ports. One guy said the cooler mount is weird, so that's a possible problem.
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Old 11-30-2012, 08:57 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by tynopik View Post
It works for some combinations of boards/cpus/video cards and not others
Let me ask it this way ...

Around Nov 2013, will I be able to get an 6-core Intel (non-extreme) "K processor" on some chipset other than x79 ... that is PCIe 3.0 certified?

Will i7-3930K and i7-3970K only ever run on x79?

The Xeon workstation build is a nice pipe-dream but in reality, I need to keep it more "mainstream desktop" ... the Premium Performance Level P2 looks perfect.
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Old 11-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...2.80GHz&id=835

5039 vs 9658 Passmark scores for your i7 vs 3770k stock.

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?...0+3.50GHz&id=2


That's a significant difference.
Yes it is ... and I suppose that's the real objective. But on paper I'm not adding any more cores or much clock speeds. I think even going from tri-channel to dual-channel memory. Seems like I should be adding something more significant on the next build ... but the numbers don't lie ... or do they ?
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