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Old 11-29-2012, 11:32 AM   #51
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Why would Google be embarrassed? There is no security issue with the huge demand and short supply. There are plenty of people who want the phone but can't get the phone (yet). Sounds like a win win to me. Lots of news outlets are giving the Nexus 4 free advertising as we speak. We are all talking about how Google can't keep up with demand of the Nexus 4.

Everyone knows the demand of a Nexus phone including Google. To suggest that Google must be embarrassed is not accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
I'm not sure what he's getting at exactly, but my take on this is that it shows just how (surprisingly) inept Google was with assessing the market.

I don't think they're intentionally holding things back. I just think they completely misjudged demand for this and were caught completely unprepared. Probably just about anyone here could have told them that a sleek quad-core HSPA 42 720p Android 4.2 phone for $299 unlocked would sell like hotcakes. Demand would be HUGE. It's basically a top tier flagship phone that looks better than the competition, isn't saddled by bloated Android skins, and costs HALF as much. That's pretty compelling even if it is missing LTE (outside of Canada). So, why the hell did Google not understand that?

Google must be pretty embarrassed. They make their living selling information about consumers, but were totally off-base about consumer demand for this device. People talked about Google wanting Nexus devices to be game changers. With basically every Google phone release, I just looked at each release and thought, "This ain't a gamechanger by any measure. In fact, it's not even that interesting." OTOH, the Nexus 4 indeed has the potential to be a game changer, because of that unheard of price, for a top tier phone.

The tinfoil hat theory is that Google is slightly subsidizing this and is intentionally holding it back so they don't have to lose too much money on it, but that's unlikely. While I can see them slightly subsidizing the unit, I attribute this mess of a launch to idiocy about the demand, not malice or some grand scheme.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:44 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by openwheel View Post
Why would Google be embarrassed? There is no security issue with the huge demand and short supply. There are plenty of people who want the phone but can't get the phone (yet). Sounds like a win win to me. Lots of news outlets are giving the Nexus 4 free advertising as we speak. We are all talking about how Google can't keep up with demand of the Nexus 4.

Everyone knows the demand of a Nexus phone including Google. To suggest that Google must be embarrassed is not accurate.
Lots of news outlets are saying this launch was a joke. Or as I mentioned earlier, the kind ones are saying it was a "squandered opportunity".

Yeah companies and journalists have complemented Google for many of its achievements, but so far pretty much everyone thinks Google's latest foray into retail has been pretty poor. They look like complete amateurs, quite frankly... which they are.

Given the amount of resources they have, and the experience they had with the Nexus 7, I thought they'd pleasantly surprise me with the Nexus 4 launch, but I was quite mistaken.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:46 AM   #53
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Meh, doesn't bother me. Ordered ours last night. 4-5 weeks for the 16GB is just about when my contract with Sprint is up.

Demand is crazy...not sure why Google should be feel so terrible or embarrassed about that. Besides, they don't really have the benefit that Apple does with the iPhone where carriers order their stockpiles ahead of time. Apple already makes their money. Google has to stockpile totally out of pocket.

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Old 11-29-2012, 11:51 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaerflog View Post
When its impossible to get one......
By the time you're able to get one, it might be 3-4 months from now.
Don't try to sell something at a price point that you can't fulfill.
The Nexus 4 8gb is listed 7-8 weeks and I doubt you can even get that.
The 16gb is 2-3 weeks but you can't even add it to a cart.
Also the 16gb comes close to $400 after tax and shipping.
For $400, you can get a new/mint GS3 on CL these days.
While the Nexus 4 has better internals, the GS3 is no slouch and it has removable battery and SD card slot.
I've been wanting to get one since its release but I think I'm over it.
Theres other options.


Seriously, get the f*ck over it already. Go buy a GS3 and then whine about how you aren't getting the latest Android version right away.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:55 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Lots of news outlets are saying this launch was a joke. Or as I mentioned earlier, the kind ones are saying it was a "squandered opportunity".

Yeah companies and journalists have complemented Google for many of its achievements, but so far pretty much everyone thinks Google's latest foray into retail has been pretty poor. They look like complete amateurs, quite frankly... which they are.

Given the amount of resources they have, and the experience they had with the Nexus 7, I thought they'd pleasantly surprise me with the Nexus 4 launch, but I was quite mistaken.
Exactly. There's a difference between pushing 5 million iPHones and having your orders slip to 4-5 weeks with pushing a few thousand units and not being able to have an order page that works.. Even the iPad 2 which had severely limited displays had a legitimate excuse--tsunami in Japan. The media understood this and so did the general public.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:07 PM   #56
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I wonder what the comparative sales between the Nexus 4 and the Lumia 920 are. My gut feeling is that the Lumia 920 may outsell the Nexus 4 by an order of magnitude in the pre-Xmas time frame.

Quite shocking if that turns out to be true, considering it's Window Phone 8 vs. Android.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:26 PM   #57
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So you're saying Google is bad at selling phones because you can't buy a phone because so many others bought a phone?

Sounds like the old "it's so crowded nobody goes there anymore"..
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:34 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by obidamnkenobi View Post
So you're saying Google is bad at selling phones because you can't buy a phone because so many others bought a phone?

Sounds like the old "it's so crowded nobody goes there anymore"..
No I'm saying that it looks like volumes of N4s sold are likely very low, and that Google misjudged the market.

You generally don't sell 1 million units of phones in 8 minutes on a site that has completely flaked out.

Meanwhile, the Lumia 920, disadvantaged with Windows Phone 8 and the lack of a real ecosystem, has already sold several million units in the last 3 weeks. I just found this article:

Nokia Lumia 920 Worldwide Sales Reach 2.5 Million Units

According to new reports, a grand total of 2.5 million Lumia 920 units were ordered by retailers around the world and shipped out to consumers. This covers the first 20 days since the device’s initial release, and although it is too early to jump into conclusions, it might be possible for Nokia to break the 3-4 million mark before the end of the year.

This is good news for Nokia, which sold only 2.9 million Lumia handsets combined for the September ending quarter.


Like I said, it's looking like the Lumia 920 might just outsell the Nexus 4 by an order of magnitude in that all-important pre-Christmas period.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:58 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by DLeRium View Post

Nexception!

I've been over the Nexus devices for a while now. I'd be more interested if the N4 was $199/249 for a 16/32gb, or if it had a uSD slot and removable battery.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:20 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
No I'm saying that it looks like volumes of N4s sold are likely very low, and that Google misjudged the market.

You generally don't sell 1 million units of phones in 8 minutes on a site that has completely flaked out.

Meanwhile, the Lumia 920, disadvantaged with Windows Phone 8 and the lack of a real ecosystem, has already sold several million units in the last 3 weeks. I just found this article:

Nokia Lumia 920 Worldwide Sales Reach 2.5 Million Units

According to new reports, a grand total of 2.5 million Lumia 920 units were ordered by retailers around the world and shipped out to consumers. This covers the first 20 days since the device’s initial release, and although it is too early to jump into conclusions, it might be possible for Nokia to break the 3-4 million mark before the end of the year.

This is good news for Nokia, which sold only 2.9 million Lumia handsets combined for the September ending quarter.


Like I said, it's looking like the Lumia 920 might just outsell the Nexus 4 by an order of magnitude in that all-important pre-Christmas period.
They made a few phones intended for developers and sold them, and now it's sold out. So what? Selling out is a failure now? Especially since they may not even make money on these.

So they should have made millions of phones, and sat and waited for months and then dumped them all onto the market? Ok, then you would have gotten the phone 4-8 weeks from now anyway. You just wanted it at the same time as everyone else? I'm honestly having a really hard time understanding this criticism for selling out of a niche product.

They had phones ready, and they sell them. I have the feeling that's how google do things. But perhaps you wanted them to announce it in a big auditorium with people clapping a lot and they call it magical 324 times instead?
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:23 PM   #61
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Only through a narrow minded iFan would anyone call this "a joke" or "complete amateurs".

You are nitpicking on something that isn't there. It's a simple as high demand and short supply. Nothing else to it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Lots of news outlets are saying this launch was a joke. Or as I mentioned earlier, the kind ones are saying it was a "squandered opportunity".

Yeah companies and journalists have complemented Google for many of its achievements, but so far pretty much everyone thinks Google's latest foray into retail has been pretty poor. They look like complete amateurs, quite frankly... which they are.

Given the amount of resources they have, and the experience they had with the Nexus 7, I thought they'd pleasantly surprise me with the Nexus 4 launch, but I was quite mistaken.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:40 PM   #62
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They made a few phones intended for developers and sold them, and now it's sold out. So what? Selling out is a failure now? Especially since they may not even make money on these.
Google makes money on every Android phone sold, through data mining. That's basically the whole point of Android in fact.

Quote:
So they should have made millions of phones, and sat and waited for months and then dumped them all onto the market?
Companies who are successful retailers need some inventory to sell, with manufacturing to meet the projected demand. It looks like they completely missed the mark on demand, which tells me that someone there was quite out to lunch. As I said before, just about anyone here could have told them this would be huge.

They should also have developed some sort or reasonable online store. Surely a company like Google can actually handle the server load. If they can't do that, then they should sell it through retailers.

As for the carriers, it's interesting that nobody is carrying it. If Google's intent was to bypass the carriers, then so far they've pretty much failed because all signs point to low sales volume, at least for the pre-Christmas period.

You have to hand it to MS and Nokia. Finally they got things right with the Lumia 920, and their sales reflect it.

Quote:
Ok, then you would have gotten the phone 4-8 weeks from now anyway. You just wanted it at the same time as everyone else? I'm honestly having a really hard time understanding this criticism for selling out of a niche product.
Niche product? WTF? This is their flagship product with a whole bunch of specs that are more impressive than a lot of the competition, that they priced at HALF of all the competition. If they wanted it to be a niche product they should have priced it like other flagship phones at launch (like the Galaxy Nexus).

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They had phones ready, and they sell them. I have the feeling that's how google do things. But perhaps you wanted them to announce it in a big auditorium with people clapping a lot and they call it magical 324 times instead?
I guess you don't see the irony in that statement. Google had a big press event planned to announce this, hoping to get people clapping a lot. However, it got pre-empted by Hurricane Sandy.
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:57 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by obidamnkenobi View Post
They made a few phones intended for developers and sold them, and now it's sold out. So what? Selling out is a failure now? Especially since they may not even make money on these.
For those who work in marketing and purchasing, I'm pretty sure they can gauge what's an appropriate amount of phones to sell. It's not that they even sold 5 million or some large number. It was an absurdly small amount. I can't imagine the preorders even beating the past couple of iPhone launches. If you can't handle that then perhaps someone made a huge mistake

Quote:
Originally Posted by obidamnkenobi View Post
So they should have made millions of phones, and sat and waited for months and then dumped them all onto the market? Ok, then you would have gotten the phone 4-8 weeks from now anyway. You just wanted it at the same time as everyone else? I'm honestly having a really hard time understanding this criticism for selling out of a niche product.
Does Apple sit on millions of phones for months? Do you understand lean production and a lean business model? There are ways around sitting on inventory. Google clearly didn't figure this out.

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Originally Posted by obidamnkenobi View Post
They had phones ready, and they sell them. I have the feeling that's how google do things. But perhaps you wanted them to announce it in a big auditorium with people clapping a lot and they call it magical 324 times instead?
They had like 5000 phones total. Any decent project manager leading that could see and say "Oh crap, let's not launch yet." It's a no brainer. Someone dropped the ball big. If this were Apple you'd see heads rolling.

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Originally Posted by Raduque View Post
Nexception!

I've been over the Nexus devices for a while now. I'd be more interested if the N4 was $199/249 for a 16/32gb, or if it had a uSD slot and removable battery.
Who doesn't want lower prices? Yeah 8gb is an insult. Even 16gb is almost an insult. 16/32 is more appropriate and to me should've been the bare minimum. But those prices are probably pushing it. I would've paid for this phone if it was 349/449 for 16/32gb. Hell I probably would've paid for this phone even if it was $499 or $529 or whatever Nexus Phones used to launch at. People are getting spoiled here and thinking this is the appropriate pricing. Just because Google threw a wrench in the industry pricing structure doesn't mean everyone else is doing it wrong. We can perhaps see a shift in pricing, but for that to be overnight is expecting too much.

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:10 PM   #64
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They had like 5000 phones total.
Why would you say that? I might have guessed a 5-digit number.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:12 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Why would you say that? I might have guessed a 5-digit number.
Yeah, I highly doubt it was 5000 phones.

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:23 PM   #66
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I am tired of seeing the same 3 people attacking anything other than iDevice. All the time.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:23 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Eug View Post
Why would you say that? I might have guessed a 5-digit number.
well it was a small number. XDA was practically dead for both the Nexus 4 and 10 forums. The people who made recoveries basically did it blind without their phones.

I may be wrong with 5000 but still, the number wasn't very high. Basically it's not a # that's worth bragging about on launch weekend.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:30 PM   #68
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well it was a small number. XDA was practically dead for both the Nexus 4 and 10 forums. The people who made recoveries basically did it blind without their phones.

I may be wrong with 5000 but still, the number wasn't very high. Basically it's not a # that's worth bragging about on launch weekend.
I didn't know the goal of the Nexus line was to brag about launch figures.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:35 PM   #69
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I didn't know the goal of the Nexus line was to brag about launch figures.
the goal of the nexus isn't just to make it a developer only device either. so it's not like how the SDK his hidden in developers.android.com where no mainstream user would venture to.

you're right it's not about bragging launch figures. but from an operations standpoint moving the few numbers that Google did shows an operations failure... the inability to accurately forecast and produce sufficient models to support a launch, the inability to have the server infrastructure to operate an online store for a launch, lack of communication, a second fail at a second launch 2 weeks later.

I'm sure Google's goal was to move a small handful of units only. Just like every company. Aim low right?
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:39 PM   #70
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Who doesn't want lower prices? Yeah 8gb is an insult. Even 16gb is almost an insult. 16/32 is more appropriate and to me should've been the bare minimum. But those prices are probably pushing it. I would've paid for this phone if it was 349/449 for 16/32gb. Hell I probably would've paid for this phone even if it was $499 or $529 or whatever Nexus Phones used to launch at. People are getting spoiled here and thinking this is the appropriate pricing. Just because Google threw a wrench in the industry pricing structure doesn't mean everyone else is doing it wrong. We can perhaps see a shift in pricing, but for that to be overnight is expecting too much.
I've always said device prices are too high for what they are. Subsidized prices may actually be a little low for what the device's actual value is.

However, there's no way in hell I'd ever pay more than $300 for a Nexus 4, being such a crippled device.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:40 PM   #71
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Last i heard about the Nexus 4 lots of people where complaining it sucked because no LTE, and nobody would buy it. And the galaxy nexus was also a flop I seem to remember?

But this one was too popular, and also too cheap? :S So if it was $600 it would be ok?

How do you figure this is google's flagship? have they said so? It's a dev phone. And since they make money of search anyway they don't care which phone you buy so why bother? They sold out. Good for them, who cares.
With people are pulling sales figures out of thin air this is just getting more ridiculous.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:41 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by DLeRium View Post
well it was a small number. XDA was practically dead for both the Nexus 4 and 10 forums. The people who made recoveries basically did it blind without their phones.

I may be wrong with 5000 but still, the number wasn't very high. Basically it's not a # that's worth bragging about on launch weekend.
Oh man, I just love the shit and numbers just pulled right out of your ass.

Please continue to make completely made up numbers.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:46 PM   #73
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you're right it's not about bragging launch figures. but from an operations standpoint moving the few numbers that Google did shows an operations failure... the inability to accurately forecast and produce sufficient models to support a launch, the inability to have the server infrastructure to operate an online store for a launch, lack of communication, a second fail at a second launch 2 weeks later.

I'm sure Google's goal was to move a small handful of units only. Just like every company. Aim low right?
Bingo. This isn't about a couple of AnandTech geeks not getting their toys. This is about the observation of an internet ad giant failing so miserably to execute a hardware product launch.

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How do you figure this is google's flagship? have they said so?
Uh, Google only has one Nexus phone per year, and this one has higher specs than most of the competition. It's essentially an Optimus G without the LTE. In fact LG said as much. And the Optimus G costs twice as much.

Quote:
It's a dev phone.
Heh. It's a dev phone that hides the dev options.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:52 PM   #74
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Bingo. This isn't about a couple of AnandTech geeks not getting their toys. This is about the observation of an internet ad giant failing so miserably to execute a hardware product launch.
Something they have lots of experience with yes?

No?

Oh.

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I am tired of seeing the same 3 people attacking anything other than iDevice. All the time.
I too am getting tired of seeing the same few people constantly hate on Android for not being iOS.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:04 PM   #75
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Something they have lots of experience with yes?

No?

Oh.
So then... It sounds like you're agreeing that the launch was very poorly executed.
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