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Old 11-28-2012, 11:16 AM   #226
Todd33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dumac View Post
$40k per patch is a pretty big difference.

The article states that it follows closer to Steam and Apple than MS or Sony. Trine 2 developer was raving about it, and he has experience on a lot of platforms.
Did you read the link? Sony hasn't charged for a patch in over two years and I'm positive it was never $40k. You are cherry picking one positive comment for the Wii U and then cherry picking one story from one dev about the 360, which has never be collaborated from anyone else, only contradicted.

Quote:
“Indies have been able to set their own prices and release dates since SCEA [Sony Computer Entertainment America] opened up access to self-publishing back in 2008,” said Adam Boyes, the vice president of publisher and developer relations. “Allowing indie developers to publish their content how and when they want, using the business model of their choosing — including free to play — without the need of a traditional publisher, has resulted in the PlayStation platforms being the most accessible console in the marketplace. The Pub Fund program is further evidence of the importance we place on indie developers and self-publishing through guaranteed royalties and additional publishing and co-marketing support.
“As for fees,” said Boyes, “we do our best to remove any obstacles that would impact indies from self-publishing on the PlayStation platforms. SCEA hasn’t charged an indie dev a patch fee in over two years, which represents our passion for supporting the indie dev community.”

Read more at http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/27/ni...rGURWXhiR99.99
So maybe the 360 is the odd man out, but Nintendo isn't doing anything that Apple, Sony or Steam isn't already.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:17 PM   #227
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Originally Posted by Todd33 View Post
Did you read the link? Sony hasn't charged for a patch in over two years and I'm positive it was never $40k. You are cherry picking one positive comment for the Wii U and then cherry picking one story from one dev about the 360, which has never be collaborated from anyone else, only contradicted.

So maybe the 360 is the odd man out, but Nintendo isn't doing anything that Apple, Sony or Steam isn't already.
Here are some quotes

Quote:
“Simply put, [Nintendo has] told us that there are no basic payments for each patch — which were pretty high on most platforms — and that we can update our game almost as much as we want,” said Haveri. “For indie developers, this is huge.”
Quote:
Microsoft also said that indie developers (on XBLIG) can set the price of their games based on size. “Games that are less than 150MB in size can be priced at 80, 240, or 400 points,” said Isensee. “Games larger than 150MB can be priced at 240 or 400 points."
Quote:
It is very close to what Apple and Steam are doing at the moment and very indie friendly
Quote:
It’s a lot like Steam’s setup
So Maybe MS is the one lagging behind mostly, but it is important to note that everyone compared the Wii U to Steam, which is the current gold standard. Notice nobody said "Oh, it's like what Sony is doing". Which shows how behind consoles are on the matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gorcorps View Post
It's been discussed before that MS allows 2 free patches before charging. The thought being that if it takes you more than 2 patches to fix something then you need more incentive. There was some indie game recently that had a huge bug that was introduced in the final free patch, and the devs posted a sob story about how they won't be able to fix it again because of the "absurd cost" of doing so. Not many felt sorry for them after they found out they introduced this bug on their own with the latest patch, and that they have a couple free chances to fix things.
If it takes you more than 2 patches to fix something then you need more incentive? How absurd. Do you know anything about software development, specifically game development?

Also, you are forgetting about things like updates which may not be fixing bugs but adding new features. MS charges for those too.

Oh and you can't set your own price? Seems limiting.

Oh, you can't set your own sale whenever you want? Also seems limiting.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:22 PM   #228
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One developer who has a game coming to the Wii U who is slobbing on Nintendo is not really a broad overview of the industry. You have to be careful about cherry picking from two sources (a) someone who has a current game and is on a PR tour or (b)someone burned and bitterly tells part of his experience.
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Old 11-28-2012, 01:35 PM   #229
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd33 View Post
One developer who has a game coming to the Wii U who is slobbing on Nintendo is not really a broad overview of the industry. You have to be careful about cherry picking from two sources (a) someone who has a current game and is on a PR tour or (b)someone burned and bitterly tells part of his experience.
I'm not cherry picking. The fault of XBLA are already well documented and detailed.

Schaefer has said multiple times his woes about putting games on XBLA.

Just ask Gabe Newell. He wanted to provide updates to TF2, but didn't since MS charges for updates.

It isn't cherry picking sources. A ton of devs have complained about it.
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Old 11-28-2012, 04:20 PM   #230
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Then you haven't been playing the right indie games. What you describe is called Sturgeon's Law, and it asserts that ninety percent of everything is crap.
What I described is how I feel. Torchlight is the only game not from a major developer and/or publisher that I could spend more than 5 minutes playing.
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Old 11-28-2012, 06:35 PM   #231
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Back on topic, I got my Wii U today, I am surprised by how much though nintendo put into it, with the TV remote controls and such. I really like it alot so far. Mario is just as fun as it was 20 years ago, and looks great, this is coming from a PC gamer so I really feel like the system was a good buy for me on the note that I like nintendo games.
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Old 11-28-2012, 09:34 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by p_monks33 View Post
Back on topic, I got my Wii U today, I am surprised by how much though nintendo put into it, with the TV remote controls and such. I really like it alot so far. Mario is just as fun as it was 20 years ago, and looks great, this is coming from a PC gamer so I really feel like the system was a good buy for me on the note that I like nintendo games.
Did you play any of the other "New Super Mario" games?
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:16 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by p_monks33 View Post
Back on topic, I got my Wii U today, I am surprised by how much though nintendo put into it, with the TV remote controls and such. I really like it alot so far. Mario is just as fun as it was 20 years ago, and looks great, this is coming from a PC gamer so I really feel like the system was a good buy for me on the note that I like nintendo games.
Thank you. This is what I visit this thread for; I keep thinking this thread gets bumped by people that buy a Wii-U (hence the title) but it actually gets bumped by a bunch of yahoos.

I have some questions about it if you wouldn't mind giving me your take.

People say menu loading takes forever, have you noticed this?

In responsiveness of the touchscreen, where would you rate it 0-10, 10 being the iPhone, 0 being the worst resistive touchscreen you can remember.

What's battery life on the pad like?
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:09 AM   #234
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1.I haven't noticed the long load times too much. The first bootup I did the update the one thread complained about. Its a little over an hour. I wasn't too upset having had a PS3 before. The screen between entering and exiting a game is probably 10-15 seconds, I would think that's the reason people are saying long load times. I don't notice much.
2. The touchscreen is pretty good I would give it an 8 I don't think its as good as my phone, but its definitely a huge leap from the 3DS. Typing and moving through menus is very fluid and easy, the color on the screen is what really impressed me. Its great.
3. Can't answer that for you yet. I charged it before I turned it on, and it hasn't died yet after 4 or so hours of playtime.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:22 AM   #235
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Originally Posted by p_monks33 View Post
Back on topic, I got my Wii U today, I am surprised by how much though nintendo put into it, with the TV remote controls and such. I really like it alot so far. Mario is just as fun as it was 20 years ago, and looks great, this is coming from a PC gamer so I really feel like the system was a good buy for me on the note that I like nintendo games.
interesting. I really want to try it. Not going to buy it without trying (like i have nearly every system heh).

teh pad really really looks cool though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 12:39 PM   #236
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As a lifelong diehard Nintendo fan I'm a little surprised I have absolutely no interest in the Wii U at the moment. I would guess the sales aren't as good as suspected either, but that's just a guess on my part. How many Wii-U titles are games that have already been on the Wii? I don't like it when Nintendo re-launches games on different consoles :p

Hope it turns out to be awesome, though.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:26 PM   #237
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<snip>
Thanks for the mini-review.


NEWS: The processor has been outed:

3 Core PowerPC 750 @ ~ 1.2 Ghz.

Anyone know the clock-for-clock comparison vs Xenon on this? Seems a tad slow, I was hoping for a 2.0 Ghz TriCore.

Source:

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:34 PM   #238
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So he said clock for clock it's Xenon for general code, but far slower if the code takes advantage of SIMD. However it's also clocked so much lower, almost 1/3rd. I wonder how much the GPGPU capabilities can offset this, it seems like a mid range card like it has would be near load just doing some graphically intense 3D work, there are already games that have to run at 720p instead of 1080 on it.

1.2 is very low though, even if it has a significant architecture advantage. That combined with it having about a third the transistor budget (30mm2 on 45nm).

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Old 11-29-2012, 02:46 PM   #239
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Its crazy even if nintendo just now caught up to the other two current generation systems, I will enjoy the hell out of playing it. I have a PS3 , Wii, and Xbox 360 and I played the Wii every bit as much as the other two. Probably more than the PS3. I enjoy titles like Zelda, Super Mario, Metroid , and was surprised on the Wii when I got games like No More Heroes, and Donkey Kong. I just hope that as everyone has complained about, nintendo gets more quality from 3rd party software.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:06 PM   #240
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Lets be friends! I'm warcrow on Miiverse, and let me know you're from Anand. ))
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:21 PM   #241
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Originally Posted by Dumac View Post
If it takes you more than 2 patches to fix something then you need more incentive? How absurd. Do you know anything about software development, specifically game development?

Also, you are forgetting about things like updates which may not be fixing bugs but adding new features. MS charges for those too.

Oh and you can't set your own price? Seems limiting.

Oh, you can't set your own sale whenever you want? Also seems limiting.
All I said was "the thought being..." and you turned it personal. I didn't say I agreed with it, I just said that was the thought.
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Old 11-29-2012, 03:59 PM   #242
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All I said was "the thought being..." and you turned it personal. I didn't say I agreed with it, I just said that was the thought.
well if the patching system is like Steams then that's got to be a bonus. CS:GO was supposed to be cross platform but they removed that before release because of the hurdles they had to jump to push out patches for the 360 and ps3. (I believe it's actually so console players wouldn't complain about getting destroyed in matches)
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Old 11-29-2012, 05:33 PM   #243
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Take this with a grain of salt because I have had no interest in anything Nintendo since the SNES (their exclusives are great, but as an adult I have had no interest in them).

I would have bought a Wii U if it basically tried to go head-on with 360/ps3 and what that means is them + 7 years tech. I have no interest in the tablet type controller. The only reason the 360/ps3 don't look like hell right now is because there is no competition, but if the Wii U had the tech I believe it should have (basically a work horse like the other two) then it would have made them truly show their age. And the thing is it still could have had the exclusives; Mario, Zelda, etc. would run just fine on something much faster.

I imagine Nintendo's desire to keep the Wii U at its current price (which is fair for a new console) meant its innards had to be so low-end to allow the very complex controller. This is Nintendo's "hook". The Gamecube was a "party machine", the Wii had motion, the Wii U has this controller. But that hook costs money to put in place. Back in the day Nintendo only had kids' games, but they've now shown a willingness to have all the grown-up titles, too. It's too bad the thing just isn't as powerful as it should be.

Last edited by Doppel; 11-29-2012 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 06:52 PM   #244
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All I said was "the thought being..." and you turned it personal. I didn't say I agreed with it, I just said that was the thought.
Sorry, didn't mean to come off so brusque.
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Old 11-29-2012, 09:52 PM   #245
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Mothers, already sick and tired of underfoot, broken, stepped on, fought over and lost Wii controllers are now looking at a system that retains those controllers and then adds another 'master' controller with a glass screen that is absolutely guaranteed to ignite some hard fought battles over it's control in multiplayer games and will cost $150 to replace ... when they become available. There was a reason the Kinect was the fastest selling electronics device ever - mothers. Nothing to step on, break, fight over or lose. A mother's dream scenario.

Mothers everywhere are going to take one look at the Wii U and say H*LL NO, not in MY house.

So much for the 'family' market.

The screen controller is the polar opposite of the Wii's 'just pick up and play' simplicity that attracted tens of millions of new 'casual' players. Each Wii U game will require some learning curve, some fairly simple, some complicated and complex and require looking up and down at the tv and controller. All those casual Wii buyers that bought based on easy simplicity and instant playability aren't going to buy in to the Wii U. Especially now that they are aware of the Kinect's hands free model.

So much for the 'casual' market.

The Wii U graphics are approximately on par with consoles that are over half a decade old and next year Microsoft and Sony debut next gen consoles whose graphics and AI will blow the Wii U away. It doesn't matter that once the developers learn the hardware the game's graphics will get much better, by then the next gen consoles will be out and totally pwn anything the Wii U will ever be capable of ... and the developers will be using their money and manpower to make games for the two next gen systems they know will sell like hotcakes to their core demographic into the foreseeable future. The hard core market will have no interest in throwing their money away on a console that doesn't even provide the graphics and frame rate of current games on their present consoles, not to mention the Wii U's online ecosystem is far cruder than what already exists on the Xbox and PS3. Gamers already on the PS3 and/or Xbox 360 have no reason to buy the Wii U. And they won't. Xbox/PS4/PC developers are going to drop the Wii U.

So much for the 'hard core' market.

Nintendo has been losing money for the last few quarters. I predict Wii U sales are going to fall off rapidly after the holiday season ~ fan boy satiation and fall off a cliff after Microsoft and Sony first demo their new consoles and especially after Microsoft first demonstrates what the Kinect 2 will be capable of. After that Nintendo is going deep into the red with no prospect of seeing black with the Wii U. It's going to get very bloody.

Expect that first Xbox 720 and PS4 reveal to start sooner than later, probably during the January shows. No need to wait once the holiday sales taper off, time to start building buzz. E3 will just be the coup de grace.

To top that off Sony's financial situation appears sufficiently dire to drive speculation in the investment community it, along with Panasonic, may not survive another year with Sony being considered the bigger dog of the two. That creates a hard financial reality. If Sony markets a powerful 'future proof' next gen console that sells at an appreciable loss for two or three years the investment and ratings communities are going to break out the lead pipes and blowtorches and go to work.

Sony HAS to sell it's hardware in the black a.s.a.p. and do so at a price low enough to sell enough units to be viable. That means a console 'just powerful enough'. It's almost certain to be substantially less powerful than Microsoft's gaming console, and yet far more expensive than Microsoft's 'online/TV' console. Sony is walking a tightrope.

Microsoft can surely smell the blood in the water. With Nintendo wandering in the street with it's finger up it's nose, only a very vulnerable Sony stands between it and console gaming hegemony and it has VERY deep pockets. With it's dual SKUs and low price of entry subscription models and a willingness to stay in the red for a while with the full gaming console it can offer the Xbox 720 for a price Sony simply can't match, even selling cheaper less capable hardware. The Kinect 2 being included on both SKUs might well seal the deal.

Bit audacious, but seems possible if Microsoft decides to go that route.

Even if Sony survives, Microsoft is almost certain to win the lions share of the market. Console gaming in two years might be a very different animal than it is at present. As in Microsoft being the last man standing.

This would clear the way for Microsoft, using the two next gen SKU's processors, to release an Xbox Gaming tablet, Xbox Gaming laptop and Xbox Gaming desktop (and in time an Xbox Phone I suppose) at very reasonable prices and power envelopes and all playing Xbox console games purchased through the Xbox Store and locked down with online DRM.

Why buy an expensive gaming computer if a $500 rig can do the job? Why buy from Steam when Microsoft offers a much better immediate value proposition. It would effectively extend Microsoft's console model across all segments of computing.

Wouldn't hurt AMD's bottom line either.

I can see why Gabe Newell is so freaked out by what Microsoft is doing.

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Old 11-29-2012, 10:26 PM   #246
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Curious, what makes a game an "adult game" vs a "kids game"? Do guns, grenades, and blood automatically make something an adult game? Is Final Fantasy 6 and Chrono Trigger a kid's game or adult game? Is Ocarina of Time an adult game or a kid's game? etc.

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Old 11-29-2012, 10:34 PM   #247
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There was a reason the Kinect was the fastest selling electronics device ever - mothers. Nothing to step on, break, fight over or lose. A mother's dream scenario.
Let's see...people jumping and dancing around like lunatics in a room likely containing expensive electronics, furniture, other people, pets, snacks and food, drinks, etc. There's potential...Ah! And said people playing are young children, which are known for being extremely aware and mindful of their surroundings at all times.

Yes. A mother's dream scenario.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:49 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by psoomah View Post
Mothers, already sick and tired of underfoot, broken, stepped on, fought over and lost Wii controllers are now looking at a system that retains those controllers and then adds another 'master' controller with a glass screen that is absolutely guaranteed to ignite some hard fought battles over it's control in multiplayer games and will cost $150 to replace ... when they become available. There was a reason the Kinect was the fastest selling electronics device ever - mothers. Nothing to step on, break, fight over or lose. A mother's dream scenario.

Mothers everywhere are going to take one look at the Wii U and say H*LL NO, not in MY house.

So much for the 'family' market.

The screen controller is the polar opposite of the Wii's 'just pick up and play' simplicity that attracted tens of millions of new 'casual' players. Each Wii U game will require some learning curve, some fairly simple, some complicated and complex and require looking up and down at the tv and controller. All those casual Wii buyers that bought based on easy simplicity and instant playability aren't going to buy in to the Wii U. Especially now that they are aware of the Kinect's hands free model.

So much for the 'casual' market.

The Wii U graphics are approximately on par with consoles that are over half a decade old and next year Microsoft and Sony debut next gen consoles whose graphics and AI will blow the Wii U away. It doesn't matter that once the developers learn the hardware the game's graphics will get much better, by then the next gen consoles will be out and totally pwn anything the Wii U will ever be capable of ... and the developers will be using their money and manpower to make games for the two next gen systems they KNOW will sell like hotcakes into the foreseeable future. The 'hard core' market will have no interest in throwing their money away on a console that doesn't even provide the graphics and frame rate of current games on their present consoles, not to mention the Wii U's online ecosystem is far cruder than what already exists on the Xbox and PS3. Gamers already on the PS3 and/or Xbox 360 have no reason to buy the Wii U. And they won't. Xbox and PS4 developers are going to drop the Wii U like a hot badger.

So much for the 'hard core' market.

Nintendo has been losing money for the last few quarters. I predict Wii U sales are going to fall off rapidly after the holiday season and fall off a cliff after Microsoft and Sony first demo their new consoles and especially after Microsoft first demonstrates what the Kinect 2 will be capable of. After that Nintendo is going deep into the red with no prospect of seeing black with the Wii U. It's going to get very bloody.

Expect that first Xbox 720 and PS4 reveal to start sooner than later, probably during the January shows. No need to wait once the holiday sales taper off, time to start building buzz. E3 will just be the coup de grace.

To top that off Sony's financial situation appears sufficiently dire to drive speculation in the investment community it, along with Panasonic, may not survive another year with Sony being considered the bigger dog of the two. That creates a hard financial reality. If Sony markets a powerful 'future proof' next gen console that sells at an appreciable loss for two or three years the investment and ratings communities are going to break out the lead pipes and blowtorches and go to work.

Sony HAS to sell it's hardware in the black a.s.a.p. and do so at a price low enough to sell enough units to be viable. That means a console 'just powerful enough'. It's almost certain to be substantially less powerful than Microsoft's gaming console, and yet far more expensive than Microsoft's 'online/TV' console. Sony is walking a tightrope.

But Microsoft can surely smell the blood in the water. With Nintendo wandering in the street with it's finger up it's nose, only a very vulnerable Sony stands between it and console gaming hegemony and it has VERY deep pockets. With it's dual SKUs and low price of entry subscription models and a willingness to stay in the red for a while with the full gaming console it can offer the Xbox 720 for a price Sony simply can't match, even selling cheaper less capable hardware. The Kinect 2 being included on both SKUs might well seal the deal.

Bit audacious, but seems possible if Microsoft decides to go that route.

Even if Sony survives, Microsoft is almost certain to win the lions share of the market. Console gaming in two years might be a very different animal than it is at present. As in Microsoft being the last man standing.

This would clear the way for Microsoft, using the two next gen SKU's processors, to release an Xbox Gaming tablet, Xbox Gaming laptop and Xbox Gaming desktop (and in time an Xbox Phone I suppose) at very reasonable prices and power envelopes and all playing Xbox console games purchased through the Xbox Store and locked down with online DRM.

Why buy an expensive gaming computer if a $500 rig can do the job? Why buy from Steam when Microsoft offers a much better immediate value proposition. It would effectively extend Microsoft's console model across all segments of computing.

Wouldn't hurt AMD's bottom line either.

I can see why Gabe Newell is so freaked out by what Microsoft is doing.
Dude. You already posted this in a different forum. Simple. Don't buy one.
Go buy your new Xbox that will be uber powerful yet super cheap. Don't forget to buy call of duty every year either.
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Old 11-29-2012, 10:53 PM   #249
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I'm not impressed with Kinect. Everyone I know who has one just sit around like idiots shouting XBOX! 15 times to do a simple task I could have done in a nano second pressing a button. There is rarely ever a 1 to 1 correlation with movement either, might as well be a Sega Activator where flailing in front of a beam substitutes for the same simple action as a button press.

Likewise I hate the Wii controls as well. Shaking the controller to do things like fly in Mario for example. Sometimes it doesn't register and you die. Rather press a button for 100% execution rate. I hate gimmicks that interfere with gameplay.

Last edited by exdeath; 11-29-2012 at 10:57 PM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:04 PM   #250
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supastar1568 View Post
Dude. You already posted this in a different forum. Simple. Don't buy one.
Go buy your new Xbox that will be uber powerful yet super cheap. Don't forget to buy call of duty every year either.
It's not necessary to quote the entirety of a long post, particularly if you're not going to address a single point made in it.

Last edited by psoomah; 11-29-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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