Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Consumer Electronics > Digital and Video Cameras

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-27-2012, 11:45 AM   #76
Charles Kozierok
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xchangx View Post
Woah guys, lets take a step back. Don't shoot raw just yet.
Always shoot RAW. Always. Shoot RAW+JPG if you like, but the RAW is essential. It is your digital negative.
__________________
"Of those who say nothing, few are silent." -- Thomas Neill
Charles Kozierok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 12:39 PM   #77
JohnnyRebel
Senior Member
 
JohnnyRebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoove910 View Post
It's no wonder there's vibration.... the thing probably struggles just to hold the camera level. I never understood the philosophy of having a $500 body and a $1000 lens held up by a $20 tripod and wonder why the shots look like shit.
It's easy to slam the $30 Dolica, but as with everything it depends on what you are doing. Here's a video review of the Dolica, and you can see as the guy has his DSLR on it how easily it vibrates. Every time he touches it, or removes his hand from it the camera (look at the top of the flash) shakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZ74qqneyY

That being said, this is a very usable tripod.

1. Don't extend the bottom-most section of the legs (skinniest)
2. Hang a weight on the hook. I have a sandbag I use, but be imaginative.
3. Shoot Mup (mirror up) as advised earlier when you can and with a remote.
4. Make sure VR is turned OFF.

FWIW, the heaviest setup I use on this tripod is the D7000 and 105 DC f/2 lens.

If you want the lowdown on Tripods, Thom Hogan tells it like it is: http://bythom.com/support.htm Just be ready to lay down a cool $1000...

JR

Last edited by JohnnyRebel; 11-27-2012 at 01:00 PM.
JohnnyRebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:25 PM   #78
Smoove910
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Nampa, Idaho
Posts: 1,106
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRebel View Post
It's easy to slam the $30 Dolica, but as with everything it depends on what you are doing. Here's a video review of the Dolica, and you can see as the guy has his DSLR on it how easily it vibrates. Every time he touches it, or removes his hand from it the camera (look at the top of the flash) shakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZ74qqneyY

That being said, this is a very usable tripod.

1. Don't extend the bottom-most section of the legs (skinniest)
2. Hang a weight on the hook. I have a sandbag I use, but be imaginative.
3. Shoot Mup (mirror up) as advised earlier when you can and with a remote.
4. Make sure VR is turned OFF.

FWIW, the heaviest setup I use on this tripod is the D7000 and 105 DC f/2 lens.

If you want the lowdown on Tripods, Thom Hogan tells it like it is: http://bythom.com/support.htm Just be ready to lay down a cool $1000...

JR
Fine and dandy, but the argument you pose is moot.

Here's the tripod OP has:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...Q?tag=at055-20

Here's the tripod you linked to on Youtube (take your pick):
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_no...dolica+proline

Granted, they are both in the ballpark as far as price goes, but there's a huge difference between the build quality of the two. The OP's does not have a ball-head, whereas the one in the Youtube video does.

I'm not knocking Dolica since I use one myself, but I also don't have a huge-ass lens hanging off the front of my camera for the tripod to try to fight.
__________________
Mobo: Biostar TA880GU3+ uATX
Proc: AMD Phenom II 960T unlocked/6 cores @ 3.5ghz
Ram: (4) 4gb GSkill 1600mhz (16gb total)
HDDs: (2) 640GB WD AAKS, (1) 750GB Seagate Ext
Vid: Sapphire 6870 1gb DDR5 1000mhz core, 1100 mhz mem
Camera: Pentax K5, I'm not a Canikon fanboy.
Smoove910 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 02:29 PM   #79
JohnnyRebel
Senior Member
 
JohnnyRebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smoove910 View Post
Fine and dandy, but the argument you pose is moot.
Mooted.
JohnnyRebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #80
RobDickinson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chch, NZ
Posts: 317
Default

Sorry havnt read all the thread, just the first few and the 400/5.6L should be working better than that, looks like either a focus or shutter speed issue (which is related to long lens technique).

Using a 400mm lens on a crop body requires a high shutter speed not only to kill camera movement (depending on how well you hold it) but also subject movement, little birds often move fast...

I hardly ever shoot this lens on a tripod, I've good shots down to 1/60th but that will murder hit rate. Keep it at 1/400th or better 1/800th. Rack the ISO if needed.

Hold the lens with good technique, elbows in and supporting the camera and lens braced on your body/chest. Shoot when breathing out slowly.

Make sure it is hitting focus , any slight misfocus will show as softness. Try this with live view.

Mine is slightly adjusted and Iuse focal , though your body cant MA you may have to send it and the lens for calibration to canon.

Dont worry about using an L lens on a lower end body, its all good it should produce excellent results.

Heres a random from my 400 and 5d2 ( similar look to my 7d shots with it), almost certainly not my sharpest with the lens but a good example I have handy.


and crop ACR defaults:

Last edited by RobDickinson; 11-27-2012 at 07:42 PM.
RobDickinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:54 AM   #81
finbarqs
Diamond Member
 
finbarqs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Covina, CA
Posts: 3,657
Default

his looks focused. Your's look like they are motion OOF.
finbarqs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 08:30 AM   #82
xchangx
Golden Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,692
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesKozierok View Post
Always shoot RAW. Always. Shoot RAW+JPG if you like, but the RAW is essential. It is your digital negative.
Agreed, but for someone that is still pretty new at this, expecting them to know how to process a raw file is pretty far out there.
__________________
xchangx @ gmail.com
Nikon D3
Nikon D3s
Nikon D300 w/Grip
Nikkor 17-35 2.8
Nikkor 70-200 2.8 VR1
Nikkor 400 2.8 AF-S II
Nikkor 35 1.8
SB-600
Nikon 1.4tc
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Se...=Michael+Chang
http://www.sportsshooter.com/mkchang
http://www.michaelchangphotography.com
xchangx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:01 PM   #83
blastingcap
Diamond Member
 
blastingcap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 5,863
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by xchangx View Post
Agreed, but for someone that is still pretty new at this, expecting them to know how to process a raw file is pretty far out there.
RAW + JPG is the way to go, even for newbies, because newbies sometimes turn into not-so-newbies, at which point they will really like how they can go back to their old photos and play with them.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoFox View Post
We had to suffer polygonal boobs for a decade because of selfish corporate reasons.
Main: 3570K + R9 290 + 16GB 1866 + AsRock Extreme4 Z77 + Eyefinity 5760x1080 eIPS
blastingcap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:36 PM   #84
twistedlogic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 605
Default

So far I've learned the OP needs to:

Test the lens
RTFM
Buy photoshop
Shoot RAW
Invest in $1000 tripod
Use Mirror Lock-up
Stop down to F8
Invest in some Scott Kelby books

OP, have you tried shooting without a tripod? Just lay the camera on a stable desk or shoot in enough light where SS are fast enough to handhold, with a subject that will not move.

Getting a sharp image shouldn't be this hard. Non of your images look like its a focus issue, as nothing before or after the subject is in perfect focus.

Shooting RAW will make them look even worse, until you sharpen them. I wouldn't recommend RAW until you sort out your sharpness issue. Even then I wouldn't switch unless you found a reason too (for me, #1 is White Balance).
twistedlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #85
finbarqs
Diamond Member
 
finbarqs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: West Covina, CA
Posts: 3,657
Default

Exactly... His technique needs to be better, but even if he shot raw, the motion oof will still be there...
finbarqs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 02:52 PM   #86
JohnnyRebel
Senior Member
 
JohnnyRebel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Heart of Dixie
Posts: 743
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedlogic View Post
Invest in $1000 tripod
I actually made the opposite point... I was simply mooted by exampling the wrong cheap tripod.

But I digress, your point is spot on.
JohnnyRebel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2012, 03:05 PM   #87
Charles Kozierok
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastingcap View Post
RAW + JPG is the way to go, even for newbies, because newbies sometimes turn into not-so-newbies, at which point they will really like how they can go back to their old photos and play with them.
Exactly. And RAW processing technology also improves.

Last month I went back and reprocessed a bunch of shots I took in 2003 using a Canon 10D. They are much, much better now.
__________________
"Of those who say nothing, few are silent." -- Thomas Neill
Charles Kozierok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:16 PM   #88
waterjug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyRebel View Post
It's easy to slam the $30 Dolica, but as with everything it depends on what you are doing. Here's a video review of the Dolica, and you can see as the guy has his DSLR on it how easily it vibrates. Every time he touches it, or removes his hand from it the camera (look at the top of the flash) shakes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSZ74qqneyY

That being said, this is a very usable tripod.

1. Don't extend the bottom-most section of the legs (skinniest)
2. Hang a weight on the hook. I have a sandbag I use, but be imaginative.
3. Shoot Mup (mirror up) as advised earlier when you can and with a remote.
4. Make sure VR is turned OFF.

FWIW, the heaviest setup I use on this tripod is the D7000 and 105 DC f/2 lens.

If you want the lowdown on Tripods, Thom Hogan tells it like it is: http://bythom.com/support.htm Just be ready to lay down a cool $1000...

JR

what's VR??
waterjug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:20 PM   #89
waterjug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedlogic View Post
So far I've learned the OP needs to:

Test the lens
RTFM
Buy photoshop
Shoot RAW
Invest in $1000 tripod
Use Mirror Lock-up
Stop down to F8
Invest in some Scott Kelby books

OP, have you tried shooting without a tripod? Just lay the camera on a stable desk or shoot in enough light where SS are fast enough to handhold, with a subject that will not move.

Getting a sharp image shouldn't be this hard. Non of your images look like its a focus issue, as nothing before or after the subject is in perfect focus.

Shooting RAW will make them look even worse, until you sharpen them. I wouldn't recommend RAW until you sort out your sharpness issue. Even then I wouldn't switch unless you found a reason too (for me, #1 is White Balance).

I hadn't actually thought of that; I'll try laying it on a table later and taking some more shots
waterjug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 12:23 PM   #90
waterjug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDickinson View Post
Sorry havnt read all the thread, just the first few and the 400/5.6L should be working better than that, looks like either a focus or shutter speed issue (which is related to long lens technique).

Using a 400mm lens on a crop body requires a high shutter speed not only to kill camera movement (depending on how well you hold it) but also subject movement, little birds often move fast...

I hardly ever shoot this lens on a tripod, I've good shots down to 1/60th but that will murder hit rate. Keep it at 1/400th or better 1/800th. Rack the ISO if needed.

Hold the lens with good technique, elbows in and supporting the camera and lens braced on your body/chest. Shoot when breathing out slowly.

Make sure it is hitting focus , any slight misfocus will show as softness. Try this with live view.

Mine is slightly adjusted and Iuse focal , though your body cant MA you may have to send it and the lens for calibration to canon.

Dont worry about using an L lens on a lower end body, its all good it should produce excellent results.

Heres a random from my 400 and 5d2 ( similar look to my 7d shots with it), almost certainly not my sharpest with the lens but a good example I have handy.


and crop ACR defaults:

Thanks for the tips; lovely thrush.

About using live-view; my pictures always look fine ON the camera, it's when I pull them off and look at them full-size they come out soft. I honestly can't focus at all using live-view; the screen is too small for me to tell if something is in focus or not, and that large focus box on the screen gets in the way for me.
waterjug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 01:07 PM   #91
twistedlogic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 605
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterjug View Post
About using live-view
Just so we are on the same page, Live-view refers to using the rear LCD as a viewfinder instead of looking through the Optical Viewfinder.

With Live View you can change the focus type to use contrast detect, which is more accurate but slower than the Optical Viewfinders Phase Detect. You can also hit the Zoom button to zoom in 5X and 10X on the LCD for critical focus.
twistedlogic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 01:21 PM   #92
Saylick
Senior Member
 
Saylick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: USA
Posts: 457
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by waterjug View Post
what's VR??
Vibration Reduction. Nikon's marketing term for their image stabilization.
Canon's version is IS (Image Stabilization).
They both accomplish the same thing.
Saylick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 03:42 PM   #93
waterjug
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 834
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by twistedlogic View Post
Just so we are on the same page, Live-view refers to using the rear LCD as a viewfinder instead of looking through the Optical Viewfinder.

With Live View you can change the focus type to use contrast detect, which is more accurate but slower than the Optical Viewfinders Phase Detect. You can also hit the Zoom button to zoom in 5X and 10X on the LCD for critical focus.
oh shit.....I never tried zooming in. SHIT. how do I change the focus type from live view?
waterjug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 03:42 PM   #94
ElFenix
Elite Member
Super Moderator
Off Topic
 
ElFenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 94,082
Default

why is something inherently not live called 'live view'?
__________________
I killed and ate the Fun Mod with some jellybeans and a little Chianti.

AnandTech Mean Moderator
ElFenix is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-30-2012, 04:04 PM   #95
SecurityTheatre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFenix View Post
why is something inherently not live called 'live view'?
What?

Because it shows a live image on the LCD.... Live, as in.... "what is happening right now".

How do you interpret that?
SecurityTheatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #96
RobDickinson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chch, NZ
Posts: 317
Default

What I meant with live view is use it as an objective test on a static subject, use a tripod, use live view 10* and manual focus, 10 second timer, see how sharp the picture is.

Then repeat with normal autofocus and compare.

If you can use live view to shoot birds your a better tog than I.
RobDickinson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 05:53 PM   #97
ElFenix
Elite Member
Super Moderator
Off Topic
 
ElFenix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 94,082
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SecurityTheatre View Post
What?

Because it shows a live image on the LCD.... Live, as in.... "what is happening right now".

How do you interpret that?
well, it's not happening right now is my point. using the LCD must induce a delay compared to using the optical viewfinder in an SLR, simply by the nature of the device. therefore, not 'live'.
__________________
I killed and ate the Fun Mod with some jellybeans and a little Chianti.

AnandTech Mean Moderator
ElFenix is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 06:20 PM   #98
gevorg
Diamond Member
 
gevorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,784
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFenix View Post
well, it's not happening right now is my point. using the LCD must induce a delay compared to using the optical viewfinder in an SLR, simply by the nature of the device. therefore, not 'live'.
and how big is that "delay"?
gevorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 07:25 PM   #99
GoSharks
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 3,044
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFenix View Post
well, it's not happening right now is my point. using the LCD must induce a delay compared to using the optical viewfinder in an SLR, simply by the nature of the device. therefore, not 'live'.
"live" has been used for decades in this exact manner. It's a staple of TV broadcasts and has a current connation of watching something through a transmission medium as it is happening. (as opposed to being tape-delayed)
__________________
| Take a hike | Pentax K200D, DA* 16-50mm f2.8, FA 77mm f1.8 Limited | JHU BME '07 |
GoSharks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-03-2012, 07:36 PM   #100
SecurityTheatre
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 671
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ElFenix View Post
well, it's not happening right now is my point. using the LCD must induce a delay compared to using the optical viewfinder in an SLR, simply by the nature of the device. therefore, not 'live'.
Is that because of the 100-odd nanoseconds it takes for the light to get to the camera?

or the 100-odd microseconds it takes for the camera to re-display the light on the screen?

Nitpicking......
SecurityTheatre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.