Windows 8 Sales Well Below Projections, Plenty of Blame to Go Around

[cboath]

Originally Posted by vcarpio2

"there are ways to create a shortcut that does just that." Um, this is why I miss the Start menu -- I don't have to create workarounds.

"As for dragging a document", I drag 5 or more documents at a time. But that's no problem in Win 8.

In all honesty, I don't see an issue with having to open an Explorer Window and going to documents vs clicking the start menu browsing up and selecting documents. Same amount of mouse clicks and probably same mouse movement. Nothing saved or gained.

In fact, creating a couple taskbar icons to go straight to documents or whatever would be faster than the start menu by a factor of 2 as they'd be single click.

As for a shortcut, really? Right click the folder and drag it to your desktop and choose create shortcut. 2 seconds of effort. Of course this is written by someone who'd go to run/calc to run the calculator for years before I broked down and created a shortcut

Regardless though, there's zero savings of time or effort in that regard with or without the start button.

[vcarpio2]

Originally Posted by cboath

In all honesty, I don't see an issue with having to open an Explorer Window and going to documents vs clicking the start menu browsing up and selecting documents. Same amount of mouse clicks and probably same mouse movement. Nothing saved or gained.

In fact, creating a couple taskbar icons to go straight to documents or whatever would be faster than the start menu by a factor of 2 as they'd be single click.

As for a shortcut, really? Right click the folder and drag it to your desktop and choose create shortcut. 2 seconds of effort. Of course this is written by someone who'd go to run/calc to run the calculator for years before I broked down and created a shortcut

Regardless though, there's zero savings of time or effort in that regard with or without the start button.

Um, yes, I created the taskbar icon which I think I already mentioned. Yes, it's the same as having it on the Start menu.

EDIT: I wouldn't have to if the Start menu wasn't replaced by the Metro Start screen -- but I think I already said that, too.

EDIT#2: BTW, I do "run/calc".

[HumblePie]

Originally Posted by colonelciller

things like what you describe and yet there are people saying that they can't tell a difference... or just create 2 dozen icons and spray them across the desktop as a replacement for the start menu and quick launch.

and then there's the computer semi-literate who have a helluva of a time whenever they have to do something that they've never done before on Windows xp/vista/7... people like my parents. Windows 8 will cause these people to pick up their PC's, load them in the trunk of the car and drop a couple of hundred bucks at the local 'repair shop' to have them 'fix it' by installing an OS that they know how to use.

BRAVO Microsoft... bravo

The windows 8 start screen is perfect for those few people I know who love to have tons of icon shortcut on their desktop. I've known a few that prefer using icon short cuts all over their screen instead of the start menu system. For those, windows 8 is perfect for I guess.

But the vast majority, including myself, don't like having a crap ton of icons all over the desktop. It looks cluttered, and is hard to figure out/remember where everything is. There is no rhyme or organization imposed, except perhaps by the user to a degree if they decide to group similar app shortcut icons in some quadrant of the screen. That type of screen is just one big cluster fuck.

Think of it this way, and this is how I see the start menu versus start screen debate.

Imagine you are a kid looking for a toy to play with. You walk into a room and see in the corner of the room a big box labeled TOYS INSIDE. You walk over to that box, open it, and notice various shelves all labeled with all manner of toys to find and play with. You can easily see the labels and shelves and find the toy you want to pull out to play with. That's the start menu.

Now imagine a slightly different scenario. You are a kid looking for a toy and walk into a toy room. Only to see every imaginable type of toy strewn all across the room. Big, or small it doesn't matter. Every thing is positioned haphazardly all over the place. It's a mess. Try finding your favorite toy in that. That's what the windows 8 start screen is like.

[vcarpio2]

Originally Posted by HumblePie

The windows 8 start screen is perfect for those few people I know who love to have tons of icon shortcut on their desktop. I've known a few that prefer using icon short cuts all over their screen instead of the start menu system. For those, windows 8 is perfect for I guess.

But the vast majority, including myself, don't like having a crap ton of icons all over the desktop. It looks cluttered, and is hard to figure out/remember where everything is. There is no rhyme or organization imposed, except perhaps by the user to a degree if they decide to group similar app shortcut icons in some quadrant of the screen. That type of screen is just one big cluster fuck.

Think of it this way, and this is how I see the start menu versus start screen debate.

Imagine you are a kid looking for a toy to play with. You walk into a room and see in the corner of the room a big box labeled TOYS INSIDE. You walk over to that box, open it, and notice various shelves all labeled with all manner of toys to find and play with. You can easily see the labels and shelves and find the toy you want to pull out to play with. That's the start menu.

Now imagine a slightly different scenario. You are a kid looking for a toy and walk into a toy room. Only to see every imaginable type of toy strewn all across the room. Big, or small it doesn't matter. Every thing is positioned haphazardly all over the place. It's a mess. Try finding your favorite toy in that. That's what the windows 8 start screen is like.

Good analogy.

I don't use the shortcut icons on my desktop, either. They're mostly icons of software I install that I thought I'd use a lot but not really. So the few icons I use I pin on the Start menu. Then on Metro, MS somehow thought I'd be interested in Finance, Travel, and Bing. Clicking the Games tile didn't show me the usual collection but brought me to the store. (Did I do something wrong?)

With Win 8, I'll have to rebuild my "Start menu" on the taskbar from scratch. But some may not be re-creatable. I wish MS just left the Start menu.

[Tom]

Windows 7..

I have Notepad pinned to Start menu. At the Notepad icon there's an arrow that reveals a list of my last 8 notepad documents, I can open Notepad with any one of them by clicking on the document in that list.

Same thing with Paint. The Firefox listing has a menu of recent webpages, open a new tab, page, or start private browsing.

All of this, as well as a lot of other things, search, control panel, file explorer, all programs, are easily accessed by clicking on an obvious round icon, but are not creating any clutter or taking up space when I don't want them.

Now, how do I duplicate that functionality in Windows 8, without using a replacement Start menu ?

[DaveStall]

Originally Posted by Tom

Windows 7..

I have Notepad pinned to Start menu. At the Notepad icon there's an arrow that reveals a list of my last 8 notepad documents, I can open Notepad with any one of them by clicking on the document in that list.

Same thing with Paint. The Firefox listing has a menu of recent webpages, open a new tab, page, or start private browsing.

All of this, as well as a lot of other things, search, control panel, file explorer, all programs, are easily accessed by clicking on an obvious round icon, but are not creating any clutter or taking up space when I don't want them.

Now, how do I duplicate that functionality in Windows 8, without using a replacement Start menu ?

You don't. Either stick with Windows 7 or use a start menu replacement. What is the big deal here? I spent two minutes to download and install Start8. I essentially have the same system I had with Windows 7 with whatever under the hood improvments Windows 8 brings. I haven't seen Metro in weeks. All is good.

[Mem]

Originally Posted by Tom

Windows 7..

I have Notepad pinned to Start menu. At the Notepad icon there's an arrow that reveals a list of my last 8 notepad documents, I can open Notepad with any one of them by clicking on the document in that list.

Same thing with Paint. The Firefox listing has a menu of recent webpages, open a new tab, page, or start private browsing.

All of this, as well as a lot of other things, search, control panel, file explorer, all programs, are easily accessed by clicking on an obvious round icon, but are not creating any clutter or taking up space when I don't want them.

Now, how do I duplicate that functionality in Windows 8, without using a replacement Start menu ?

I use this guide http://www.howtogeek.com/113775/add-...s-8-winx-menu/ ,I've Notepad,Restart,Shut Down etc added to (Win+X or just right click in left bottom corner).

[Tom]

Originally Posted by DaveStall

You don't. Either stick with Windows 7 or use a start menu replacement. What is the big deal here? I spent two minutes to download and install Start8. I essentially have the same system I had with Windows 7 with whatever under the hood improvments Windows 8 brings. I haven't seen Metro in weeks. All is good.

Here's the main reason. 3rd party suppliers come and go. And they sometimes use unsupported techniques to implement their software.

So in the long run its not a very satisfactory replacement for whatever features are official, included, parts of the Microsoft OS.

Anyway, I don't need to install W8 yet, although I have bought a couple of laptops recently and have registered for the $14.99 upgrades, I'm happy with W7.

But at some point I'll have to start using it, maybe by then MS will release their own Start menu for W8, I expect they will given the state of affairs.

[DaveStall]

Originally Posted by Tom

Here's the main reason. 3rd party suppliers come and go. And they sometimes use unsupported techniques to implement their software.

So in the long run its not a very satisfactory replacement for whatever features are official, included, parts of the Microsoft OS.

Anyway, I don't need to install W8 yet, although I have bought a couple of laptops recently and have registered for the $14.99 upgrades, I'm happy with W7.

But at some point I'll have to start using it, maybe by then MS will release their own Start menu for W8, I expect they will given the state of affairs.

I would perhaps go one step farther and suggest MS might abondon shoehorning desktop users into a tablet centric OS with the next version of Windows. Or at least I hope so.

[dguy6789]

Originally Posted by Tom

Windows 7..

I have Notepad pinned to Start menu. At the Notepad icon there's an arrow that reveals a list of my last 8 notepad documents, I can open Notepad with any one of them by clicking on the document in that list.

Same thing with Paint. The Firefox listing has a menu of recent webpages, open a new tab, page, or start private browsing.

All of this, as well as a lot of other things, search, control panel, file explorer, all programs, are easily accessed by clicking on an obvious round icon, but are not creating any clutter or taking up space when I don't want them.

Now, how do I duplicate that functionality in Windows 8, without using a replacement Start menu ?

Pin Notepad, Paint, Firefox to the taskbar. Right click on them and you get all of those options. Right click on the bottom left corner of the screen and you have access to your search, control panel, file explorer, etc..

[imusorka]

Sorry for OT but are there any deals left?

[dighn]

you can still get Windows 8 Pro Upgrade for $40 (http://windows.microsoft.com/en-CA/windows/buy)

or are you looking for a better deal?

[Carson Dyle]

Only $14.99 if you bought a PC or built one using an OEM license between June 2, 2012 and January 31, 2013. They can't actually verify the date, so just tell them you bought it during that time period. Then all you need is a product key from the Windows 7 COA.

http://www.windowsupgradeoffer.com/en-US

[RampantAndroid]

http://venturebeat.com/2012/11/27/wi...40m-one-month/

Sales aren't bad, according to this.

[HeXen]

another here. Looks like it's doing great to me. At least for those upgrading. I'ts the PC OEM's with W8 that is sagging, likely not a lot to do with the OS itself but other things hardware wise as well.
http://bgr.com/2012/11/27/windows-8-...nius+Report%29

[Dominato3r]

Sales "aren't bad" ... They're actually outpacing Windows 7.

[RampantAndroid]

Originally Posted by HeXen

another here. Looks like it's doing great to me. At least for those upgrading. I'ts the PC OEM's with W8 that is sagging, likely not a lot to do with the OS itself but other things hardware wise as well.
http://bgr.com/2012/11/27/windows-8-...nius+Report%29

That can't totally be true...to outpace Win7 sales, you HAVE to be doing more than upgrades. How many people actually upgrade old hardware? My parents sure don't, until I get home and do it for them...

[Carson Dyle]

Originally Posted by RampantAndroid

That can't totally be true...to outpace Win7 sales, you HAVE to be doing more than upgrades. How many people actually upgrade old hardware? My parents sure don't, until I get home and do it for them...

Its' commonplace in IT departments, although IT departments run the gamut from those terrified about moving users to new software to those terrified about running anything that Microsoft considers even slightly outdated.

[Vdubchaos]

Originally Posted by Dominato3r

Sales "aren't bad" ... They're actually outpacing Windows 7.

Microsoft said so, it must be true.

[Mem]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

Microsoft said so, it must be true.

It's true,Microsoft did a smart thing by pricing it at a very sweet(low) price.

[Dominato3r]

Originally Posted by Vdubchaos

Microsoft said so, it must be true.

I don't know much about it, but isn't that illegal? The CFO/financial somebody of MS stating a public lie and fudging around with shareholders?

[dagamer34]

Originally Posted by Mem

It's true,Microsoft did a smart thing by pricing it at a very sweet(low) price.

Price isn't that low compared to Windows 7, it did have the $150 3-pack after all. However the improvement is that Windows 8 will let you buy as many licenses as you need, especially if its less than 3.

[RampantAndroid]

Originally Posted by Dominato3r

I don't know much about it, but isn't that illegal? The CFO/financial somebody of MS stating a public lie and fudging around with shareholders?

That'd be trying to manipulate the stock price, which I'm sure the SEC would jump on.

Originally Posted by Carson Dyle

Its' commonplace in IT departments, although IT departments run the gamut from those terrified about moving users to new software to those terrified about running anything that Microsoft considers even slightly outdated.

Sure, but are IT departments where the sales in the first month will be coming from? Especially when the new OS has some major UI changes?

[Steve McQueen]

The important number is activations. Number sold can be manipulated, eg deferring revenue from win7 sales from last quarter to this quarter, and rolling that number into win8 sales.

We need to wait till jan for the revenue numbers.

[dagamer34]

Originally Posted by Steve McQueen

The important number is activations. Number sold can be manipulated, eg deferring revenue from win7 sales from last quarter to this quarter, and rolling that number into win8 sales.

We need to wait till jan for the revenue numbers.

They clearly stated the number of Windows 8 licenses sold. What is with all of the conspiracy theories and the realization that half of the stuff being proposed in this thread is downright shady if not outright illegal. You can "massage" sales numbers to general press aka marketing, you are not allowed to lie to shareholders or the SEC and FTC will be on your butt so fast that THAT scandal would do far more damage than a report of poor sales numbers ever would have.