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Old 11-20-2012, 06:00 PM   #26
Hugo Drax
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Originally Posted by GrumpyMan View Post
Sorry no excuse for a 3 month old purchase, whether it's Lenovo's or MS's fault. He is not talking about old hardware.
Lenovo has no incentive (or any PC maker) to insure a new OS will run on you computer. They prefer you buy a new computer if you want windows 8
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:08 PM   #27
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Lenovo has no incentive (or any PC maker) to insure a new OS will run on you computer. They prefer you buy a new computer if you want windows 8
You can always tell good companies from the bad as to good customer support for example Canon always had new drivers out for my printer within days of a new OS,happened with Vista,Win7,Win8,too bad a lot of companies are lazy or don't really care about their customers.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:08 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Hugo Drax View Post
Lenovo has no incentive (or any PC maker) to insure a new OS will run on you computer. They prefer you buy a new computer if you want windows 8
That's correct, I think that a lot of hardware manufacturers are going to let MS shoot themselves in the foot or at least slow down the delivery of compatible drivers on this one since they have decided to produce their own hardware. I'm still on the fence about going to W8 myself. We'll see...
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:13 PM   #29
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That's correct, I think that a lot of hardware manufacturers are going to let MS shoot themselves in the foot or at least slow down the delivery of compatible drivers on this one since they have decided to produce their own hardware. I'm still on the fence about going to W8 myself. We'll see...
Problem with that is it screws up their customers that have Win8 or the latest OS,those companies I always avoid,if they can't be bothered to get drivers out why should I buy their products.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:15 PM   #30
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Problem with that is it screws up their customers that have Win8 or the latest OS,those companies I always avoid,if they can't be bothered to get drivers out why should I buy their products.
I completely agree, but it is what it is.
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:44 PM   #31
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Problem with that is it screws up their customers that have Win8 or the latest OS,those companies I always avoid,if they can't be bothered to get drivers out why should I buy their products.
Most customers look for the cheapest computer available and then never upgrade the OS on them.

This is why you ended up with the race to the bottom by PC manufacturers. They wanted growth and market share at all cost, even if it means razor thin margins on desktops and laptops.

This is why they have to saddle desktops with tons of craplets that just makes the out of box experience miserable for new customers, all so they can make a few extra pennies on those razor thin margins.

The irony of all things was when Dell told the CEO of Apple to close shop and liquidate the company. The biggest irony today is Apple is in the triple digits and Dell is in the single digit share price. Why because Apple chose to not join the race to the bottom and decided to stick to a high margin niche and reinvest profits into organic R&D which resulted in the Apple you see today.

http://news.cnet.com/2100-1001-203937.html
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Old 11-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #32
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Sorry no excuse for a 3 month old purchase, whether it's Lenovo's or MS's fault. He is not talking about old hardware.
Correct, he's talking about a machine that is possibly using a new device(s) for which Microsoft did not receive a driver from the manufacturer to be included in the RTM bits. e.g. a new Intel wireless adapter, a USB3.0 controller, etc. Notice how the author is deliberately vague about which devices were in fact the problem, only referring generically to some Intel "controller".

Also, after the SSD was pronounced either dead or incompatible (according to Lenovo's tech specs, the standard Z580 SKUs do NOT ship with SSD, so I can only conclude this was an aftermarket upgrade), he tried to install Windows 8 on a "blank IDE" drive. How does one get an IDE drive connected to a laptop that doesn't have an IDE/PATA interface?
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:08 PM   #33
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And perhaps he should have consulted Lenovo's own Windows 8 upgrade guide, which makes clear that a number of Lenovo's own applications and utilities, many of which provide feature or functionality support, may need to be uninstalled prior to the upgrade (as we all know about OEM utilities):

http://download.lenovo.com/lenovo/co.../index_en.html
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Old 11-20-2012, 07:34 PM   #34
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Let's be fair, nobody is excited about Windows 8. Windows XP, VIsta and 7 are good enough for everybody but us enthusiasts, and today cool factor is reserved for android, ios and their apps.

If somebody is forcing me to use my computer the way they want, then I am not looking forward to use it.
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Old 11-20-2012, 09:32 PM   #35
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And perhaps he should have consulted Lenovo's own Windows 8 upgrade guide, which makes clear that a number of Lenovo's own applications and utilities, many of which provide feature or functionality support, may need to be uninstalled prior to the upgrade (as we all know about OEM utilities):

http://download.lenovo.com/lenovo/co.../index_en.html
I agree with you, I'm looking at it from purely the consumer's side of things. Whether Len. or MS dropped the ball or the hardware manufacturers, on a machine that came out a few months ago I find it odd that those 2 major players and their "partners" did not consult each other better since it's been in development os wise, for a long time now.
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Old 11-20-2012, 10:06 PM   #36
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I liked W8 but had to pull it off PC. It was having mystery crashes out of the blue. Google search showed many people were having same problems (with Kernel error #41).

The desktop was a nightmare for a busy user. I can have several windows open on Saturdays watching football on ESPN3. I can be screen-capping the video using Camtasia. When an app or a photo hits the desktop perimeter or the magic corners stuff gets locked up. What a headache..
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:24 AM   #37
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Vista was a perfectly fine and capable OS, not worthy of its internet rep. W8 is turning out to be the same way.
No, both are crap.

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Not surprised, it is the first windows OS i have decided to skip completely.
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Old 11-21-2012, 07:39 AM   #38
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nah, vista was fine if you didn't use early nvidia drivers. i jumped to the beta from xp and never looked back. faster and more stable. but of course i didn't try to run vista on anemic hardware with 512MB of ram.

windows 8 is also fine - bar the metro clustercluck. i'm using 8 on my PC and laptop now (with a start menu replacement) and it's mostly fine. a few annoyances not related to metro but some minor improvements.

IMO you're not missing out if you stay on win7 unless you have a touchscreen or something
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:23 AM   #39
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Vista had many problems because of it being TOO much for the vast majority of computers on the market could handle at the time. For example, the biggest problem was the inclusion of Aero which required a 3d graphics acceleration chip of some sort. The problem was, the vast majority of computers out there for the average user didn't have any form of 3d acceleration. You couldn't get rid of aero or other interface options at the time that required it since too much in Vista was interconnected. So if you didn't have the hardware in your computer to support vista, it was going to be unstable POS for you.

Windows 7 fixed the connection problems, but in turn, the push for at least minimal 3d graphics acceleration has produced many main stream computers since then capable of handling windows 7. There were other things 7 got right that Vista was a bit wonky on, but I don't want to go into that fine of detail in this post.

Windows 8, improves upon the foundation of 7, but really missed the mark with user experience. I installed 8 and there are just WAYYYY too many annoyances as a desktop user with a keyboard and mouse only input with multiple monitors that really just annoys me. It took some custom themes as well as having to do many work arounds. Like creating quite a few shortcut "apps" for launching some things with a 1 button approach. The average desktop user isn't going to stand for that.

What would have made 8 successful without a huge change? Allow users during INSTALLATION the option of using the start screen with the tile apps or to use the old start menu system. Have them both there and give the user a way to swap between them. Include the new stuff, but EXPLAIN IT and what parts are being installed during installation. Give easy access for users to turn it off.

Oh and give Aero Glass back. Many people got used to and liked the transparency look from Vista and 7. Also, making all the default themes look like some 70's art show with everything being all blocky, no drop shadows, pastel colors EVERYWHERE, and little contrast between items on the screen is just bad. Style wise, it feels as if windows 8 went back in time and I do not like. If some head hancho at microsoft likes that look then include it, but don't remove other options that were previous in windows 7 and vista. I don't mind having the ugly pastel theme as the default them as long as I KNOW I have the option during installation to change it to something I might like different.


That's where windows 8 missed the mark. It does great in trying something new, but fails hard in forcing users into the new experience. Speaking of which, much of the new interface for windows 8 is not very intuitive at all.
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Old 11-21-2012, 09:47 AM   #40
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I've always wondered how operating systems like Vista and W8 would have sold if everybody didn't dog the shit out of it to everybody they meet before even using it for more than 5 minutes.

Vista was a perfectly fine and capable OS, not worthy of its internet rep. W8 is turning out to be the same way.
There comes a point where you just have to accept that a lot of people just don't like it.
It's not some conspiracy, we just are genuinely unhappy with the experience on win8.

Looking at this board, even the people who are happy mod the OS with a start menu and such. That sort of tells me that there's some problem.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:17 AM   #41
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There comes a point where you just have to accept that a lot of people just don't like it.
It's not some conspiracy, we just are genuinely unhappy with the experience on win8.

Looking at this board, even the people who are happy mod the OS with a start menu and such. That sort of tells me that there's some problem.
Works both ways,you have to except a lot of people do like it,over at OCuK forums feedback has been quite positive,http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/sho...php?t=18454276 .

As for modding Start not everybody is doing that I don't ,for the record AT forums only account for a very minor minority of feedback even if you count both positive and negative feedback here.

End of the day you get both positive and negative feedback on ANY OS,no OS is perfect .

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It's not some conspiracy, we just are genuinely unhappy with the experience on win8.
Actually its you and some others,I could say same thing for those that like it ie myself and some others that do like Win8,I think if we are being honest here it works both ways.
You could argue all day about this point but the truth is there are plenty of happy and unhappy people,as I said no OS is perfect, I could find you people that hate XP,Vista,Win7, even Linux and vice versa.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:48 AM   #42
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It's only good for laptops with multi-touch screen. Most existing laptops don't have it. It's still useless and absolutely confusing & frustrating.

Windows 8 installation should detect whether the hardware has touch screen or not and make desktop with start menu UI or Metro UI the default. Not blatantly force the disgusting hybrid UI to all users.

Although I don't like Apple at all, but at least Apple does not force iOS UI onto their Mac desktops & laptops.
Too Funny you are using an analogy of Apple being pro customer on not forcing iOS on their desktops and laptops. Yet Apple is a do it our way or no way type company.
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Old 11-21-2012, 10:52 AM   #43
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Too Funny you are using an analogy of Apple being pro customer on not forcing iOS on their desktops and laptops. Yet Apple is a do it our way or no way type company.
Well they are, but I guess that's the point - MS is here out-appleing Apple in some ways. I don't like being Appled.

(hey, maybe that's why I dislike the word 'app' - it subconsciously reminds me of Apple!).
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Old 11-21-2012, 03:11 PM   #44
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Rumors exist of a possible return of the start menu... Mainly due to concerns that corporate adoption will be very low without it, certainly not to please us early adopters.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...ows-8/1702511/

A return of the Start menu would definitely make Windows 8 a better desktop OS IMO. I like the speed of it, the look of the more sharp window borders, and I don't miss Aero glass. I just didn't like the Start screen interface as a Start menu replacement.

Personally, I think most of the legitimate complaints are about the lack of start menu. A little fragmentation and confusion in the mobile market isn't really much of a surprise, and will be sorted out if MS finds its niche. The lack of start menu is simply MS cannibalizing their existing user base in an attempt to gain new market share. It makes sense the existing user base is not happy about it.
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Old 11-21-2012, 04:22 PM   #45
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side note on win8 - is it just me or can no one else get some shortcuts working? i mean simple things like right clicking on a folder and hitting 'r' to get to properties? i have to click with the mouse which goes against a decade of mental programming
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:09 PM   #46
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Rumors exist of a possible return of the start menu... Mainly due to concerns that corporate adoption will be very low without it, certainly not to please us early adopters.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/tech/2...ows-8/1702511/

A return of the Start menu would definitely make Windows 8 a better desktop OS IMO. I like the speed of it, the look of the more sharp window borders, and I don't miss Aero glass. I just didn't like the Start screen interface as a Start menu replacement.

Personally, I think most of the legitimate complaints are about the lack of start menu. A little fragmentation and confusion in the mobile market isn't really much of a surprise, and will be sorted out if MS finds its niche. The lack of start menu is simply MS cannibalizing their existing user base in an attempt to gain new market share. It makes sense the existing user base is not happy about it.
That article was pretty much hot air. The last three paragraphs contradict and overshadow the 17 that came before.
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Old 11-21-2012, 08:11 PM   #47
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side note on win8 - is it just me or can no one else get some shortcuts working? i mean simple things like right clicking on a folder and hitting 'r' to get to properties? i have to click with the mouse which goes against a decade of mental programming
I can't really help but it works on my machine. Maybe some app plugging into Explorer is causing trouble?
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Old 11-22-2012, 11:54 AM   #48
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I have played with 8 for over a month now. Natively, I found it almost unusable - none of the tiled links go anywhere useful for doing work. Installing Start 8 makes it useable. It has good security and is reasonably quick. But, to have to deal with layers of kid stuff before finding and running work apps was a pain. Start 8 fixed that.

Finger pointing and blame for not meeting projections is somewhat silly. Could it be that the projections were simply wrong?
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:50 PM   #49
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Well they are, but I guess that's the point - MS is here out-appleing Apple in some ways. I don't like being Appled.

(hey, maybe that's why I dislike the word 'app' - it subconsciously reminds me of Apple!).
I think both companies (Apple and MS) are trying to merge their mobile and desktop OS products however. Every new version of OS X becomes a little more iOS like, they just didn't do it all in one big move the way MS did. I can understand why they are doing it but there is a big part of me that just doesn't like losing a pure desktop OS.
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Old 11-22-2012, 02:51 PM   #50
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I have played with 8 for over a month now. Natively, I found it almost unusable - none of the tiled links go anywhere useful for doing work. Installing Start 8 makes it useable.


I found it quite easy to rearrange the tiles and also make new ones and shortcuts for my desktop and programs I need etc...I also removed ones I don't need,I even made my own Metro columns and named name , find it quite usable now.

It's not bad once you customize it to your liking IMHO,as a desktop user myself I'm very comfortable now in Win8.

I don't even miss the Start button anymore since I have my desktop customize to my liking.
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