Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > Politics and News

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-19-2012, 11:50 AM   #1
Socio
Golden Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,614
Default Treasury Secretary Geithner: Lift Debt Limit to Infinity

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/trea...limit-infinity

Quote:
Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said Friday that Congress should stop placing legal limits on the amount of money the government can borrow and effectively lift the debt limit to infinity.
I think we can extrapolate from this where the next 4 years will take us!
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 11:57 AM   #2
chucky2
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Chicagoland, IL USA
Posts: 7,689
Default

Outstanding.

Now we don't even need to worry about raising taxes or closing loopholes on anyone, and as such, don't have to waste time on having those debates/wars. Time can be spent on something else now...

Chuck

P.S. They can cut Everyones taxes now btw, why not? If debt doesn't matter, why not let Everyone keep more of their money? "Win-Win"
__________________
Tyan = No Support
Chuck's K6-3+
chucky2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 12:07 PM   #3
EagleKeeper
Discussion Club Moderator
Elite Member
 
EagleKeeper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Bumps west of Denver
Posts: 42,600
Default

Why even bother with taxes at all?
__________________
F15 Air Superiority Fighter - Never has one been lost in aerial combat (104 kills)

Last edited by EagleKeeper; 11-19-2012 at 01:25 PM.
EagleKeeper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:03 PM   #4
DaveSimmons
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 37,045
Default

This is a terrible idea, and will give congress a green light to keep avoiding any hard choices.

In the short term maybe we do need to run deficits, because it's not possible to cut enough fast enough without triggering another recession.

Long term we need to cut spending, increase revenue, and live within our means.
DaveSimmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:12 PM   #5
Incorruptible
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 9,536
Default

What is wrong with this guy? Do not raise the debt limit and start cutting the spending with drastic cuts
Incorruptible is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:13 PM   #6
Thump553
Diamond Member
 
Thump553's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 9,171
Default

It's a wonderful idea. Congress must approve ALL spending decisions, everything that makes us approach the debt ceiling has already been approved by Congress. The emphasis of the taxpayers should be on the bills that create the expense, not some artificial line.

And 18 months ago we all saw what an idiotic show the debt ceiling bill has become. I'd much rather have Congress (and the taxpayers) focus on more productive uses of their time.
Thump553 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:15 PM   #7
Jimzz
Platinum Member
 
Jimzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: NoVA
Posts: 2,799
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSimmons View Post
This is a terrible idea, and will give congress a green light to keep avoiding any hard choices.

In the short term maybe we do need to run deficits, because it's not possible to cut enough fast enough without triggering another recession.

Long term we need to cut spending, increase revenue, and live within our means.

HAhahahahahahahahah... yea right; when has congress, either party, had to make "hard choices" due to the debt limit?

The only thing the debt limit has done is give one party a zinger to use in the next election.
If R's are in charge then the D's use it against them. If D's are in charge then the R's use it against them.

The Debt limit is a BS stunt as both parties know they have to raise it and both parties do it every time.
Jimzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 01:45 PM   #8
DaveSimmons
Elite Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 37,045
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzz View Post
HAhahahahahahahahah... yea right; when has congress, either party, had to make "hard choices" due to the debt limit?

The only thing the debt limit has done is give one party a zinger to use in the next election.
If R's are in charge then the D's use it against them. If D's are in charge then the R's use it against them.

The Debt limit is a BS stunt as both parties know they have to raise it and both parties do it every time.
I wasn't claiming the debt limit got congress to do their job. It hasn't done that since the Clinton years (if then).

What it does do it make it clear over and over again that they are not doing their job. It highlights both parties' shameful lack of fiscal responsibility.

Removing the limit makes it a little easier for them to hide their shame.
DaveSimmons is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:36 PM   #9
Anarchist420
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 8,238
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveSimmons View Post
[...] increase revenue, and live within our means.
spending by the military and the bureaucracy must be slashed, but decreasing govt revenue will allow people to build up their own savings so the people won't have to rely on the govt.

Also, a tax that the govt sets the rate and the value to tax it at, the only tax that can provide the govt with more and more revenue is a property tax... but... it would have to complemented with an income tax or a consumption tax and those will fall on the poor. Please don't complain about the govt not getting enough revenue unless you want a property tax
Anarchist420 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 02:43 PM   #10
Ausm
Lifer
 
Ausm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Madison,Wi
Posts: 25,152
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post
http://cnsnews.com/news/article/trea...limit-infinity



I think we can extrapolate from this where the next 4 years will take us!
You should love this because Geithner is a Right Winger!
__________________
It's ok to eat fish, because fish don't have any feelings.

You know your're getting old when MILF'S look young
Ausm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:17 PM   #11
MovingTarget
Diamond Member
 
MovingTarget's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,502
Default

Normally, I would be railing against this as a bad idea. However, with the GOP's recent stunt involving the debt limit, it may be prudent. Removing it entirely is better than the alternative they nearly forced upon our nation's finance. Fiscal conservatism my arse...
__________________
Insert signature here.
MovingTarget is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:38 PM   #12
Socio
Golden Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,614
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anarchist420 View Post
spending by the military and the bureaucracy must be slashed, but decreasing govt revenue will allow people to build up their own savings so the people won't have to rely on the govt.

Also, a tax that the govt sets the rate and the value to tax it at, the only tax that can provide the govt with more and more revenue is a property tax... but... it would have to complemented with an income tax or a consumption tax and those will fall on the poor. Please don't complain about the govt not getting enough revenue unless you want a property tax
Cutting Military spending will barely make a dent, it is entitlement cuts that are the big cuts that need to happen and guess what will give the most deficit cuts?

Quote:
CBO: ObamaCare Offers Biggest Pot Of Deficit Cuts
http://news.investors.com/ibd-editor...ficit-cuts.htm

Quote:
A Congressional Budget Office report on ways to reduce the deficit, released last week to help guide budget negotiators in the upcoming "grand bargain" talks, contains one eye-opening item.

It turns out that the single biggest pot of potential deficit savings available to lawmakers is ... ObamaCare.
Unfortunately the Democrats will not concede entitlement cuts, at least not to the level needed as that is biting the hand that feeds them or should I say votes for them.

Last edited by Socio; 11-20-2012 at 06:59 AM.
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:44 PM   #13
sandorski
No Lifer
 
sandorski's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: coquitlam, bc
Posts: 57,016
Default

He is correct. The Debt Limit is a complete waste of time and nothing more than a Political Construct used for various nefarious purposes.

That does not mean that the Deficit/Debt does not need to be addressed, just that the Debt Limit is completely nonsensical.
__________________

FX 8320@4ghz||Zalman LQ310||AsusM5A99X EVO R2
||XFX 5870 1gb||16gb Corsair Vengeance DDR3||Seasonic M12 II 500watts||Zalman Z9 Plus||Asus MS238H

Science inspires us towards a better tomorrow, Fundamentalism wants us to die.
sandorski is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 03:56 PM   #14
loki8481
Lifer
 
loki8481's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Hudson County, NJ
Posts: 40,593
Default

we need to either:

a) raise the debt limit to infinity
b) have serious discussions about taxation/spending priorities when voting on any limit raisings in the future

B obviously will never happen.
__________________
Internet justice is swift and brutal, though not always applied equally or accurately. Still, the value of incinerating someone in a public forum should not be underestimated.
loki8481 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 04:22 PM   #15
SP33Demon
Lifer
 
SP33Demon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: In Your Frontal Lobe
Posts: 21,983
Default

The debt limit is a farce. I agree, the limit should be lifted. The dollar isn't going to crash due to our military might alone.
__________________
ATH&F Member of 2X Bodyweight Squat and Deadlift Clubs
-----------
R.I.P. Acemcmac
SP33Demon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 05:17 PM   #16
Socio
Golden Member
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 1,614
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SP33Demon View Post
The debt limit is a farce. I agree, the limit should be lifted. The dollar isn't going to crash due to our military might alone.
Sequestration of our military will shrink it down so much we could very well be butts waiting to be kicked.
Socio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 07:38 PM   #17
werepossum
Lifer
 
werepossum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Posts: 19,080
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingTarget View Post
Normally, I would be railing against this as a bad idea. However, with the GOP's recent stunt involving the debt limit, it may be prudent. Removing it entirely is better than the alternative they nearly forced upon our nation's finance. Fiscal conservatism my arse...
Just out of morbid curiosity, what level of debt (if any) would you consider to be too much? Feel free to phrase your answer in multiples of the GDP or in multiples of our budget. For instance, currently our budget is about 5% debt service due to insanely low interest rates. Is 10% okay? 25%? Should we set a maximum percentage and just automatically increase the budget, borrowing new money to pay the interest of the old borrowing?

This is important because our insanely low interest rates are due to two things, the Fed making up money to invest and the rest of the world being judged even more unstable. Should the EU get its economic house in order first, we're left with only the Fed to create money with which it buys bonds. At that point, why indeed bother with taxes at all?
__________________
"We can't drive our SUVs and eat as much as we want and keep our homes on, you know,
72 degrees at all times and -- whether we're living in the desert or we're living in the
tundra, and then just expect that every other country is going to say, okay, you know you
guys go ahead and keep on using 25% of the world's energy - Barack Hussein Obama
werepossum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2012, 07:55 PM   #18
eskimospy
Lifer
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 31,849
Default

The debt ceiling is one of the dumber ideas we've ever had. All spending is already authorized by Congress. All that having a debt ceiling does is ask Congress to re-authorize all the same spending that they already authorized once. The second time around however they get to vote on it while threatening the creditworthiness of the world's largest economy and reserve currency. What a wonderful idea!

There's a reason why no other major industrialized country on earth has a debt ceiling.
eskimospy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 02:06 AM   #19
Generator
Senior Member
 
Generator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 788
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimospy View Post
The debt ceiling is one of the dumber ideas we've ever had. All spending is already authorized by Congress. All that having a debt ceiling does is ask Congress to re-authorize all the same spending that they already authorized once. The second time around however they get to vote on it while threatening the creditworthiness of the world's largest economy and reserve currency. What a wonderful idea!

There's a reason why no other major industrialized country on earth has a debt ceiling.
So is it a double authorization or second authorization of money already spent?
Generator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 02:13 AM   #20
IGBT
Lifer
 
IGBT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 16,672
Default

it's the obama smoke and mirrors economy. his finger prints are all over it.
__________________
"Under my plan, energy prices would naturally skyrocket" - Barrack Hussein Obama.
gas was $1.84 a gallon prior to obama inauguration. The price of ALL goods and services (food) are tied to the price of transportation energy.
IGBT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 02:46 AM   #21
gevorg
Diamond Member
 
gevorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bay Area
Posts: 4,661
Default

sorry China
gevorg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 06:13 AM   #22
nextJin
Golden Member
 
nextJin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: South Korea
Posts: 1,811
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post
Sequestration of our military will shrink it down so much we could very well be butts waiting to be kicked.
Lol it would take china half a century to catch up with us even if we cut spending by half. All we need to do is stop the bullshit and just focus on actual defense spending. Doing that alone would allow us to continue R&D spending, sustain a sizable military with quality service members, and STILL provide humanitarian assistance across the globe (Navy).

Even though our problems are not totally on military spending it still needs to be cut along with future entitlement spending.

Obviously something has to be done, and something is going to eventually force our hand.
__________________
"The world reacts by asking: if you cannot count on international law, then you must find other ways to ensure your security. Thus a growing number of countries seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction. This is logical: if you have the bomb, no one will touch you. We are left with talk of the need to strengthen nonproliferation, when in reality this is being eroded." - Vladimir Putin
nextJin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 06:16 AM   #23
bononos
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 2,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gevorg View Post
sorry China
Is it time to unilaterally default on China's t-bills? I think so. *cringe*
bononos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 07:48 AM   #24
Jhhnn
Lifer
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Denver Co
Posts: 21,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eskimospy View Post
The debt ceiling is one of the dumber ideas we've ever had. All spending is already authorized by Congress. All that having a debt ceiling does is ask Congress to re-authorize all the same spending that they already authorized once. The second time around however they get to vote on it while threatening the creditworthiness of the world's largest economy and reserve currency. What a wonderful idea!

There's a reason why no other major industrialized country on earth has a debt ceiling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Generator View Post
So is it a double authorization or second authorization of money already spent?
Not necessarily spent, but rather authorized by Congress to be spent.

It's an opportunity for posturing, pandering & faux "concern" over commitments already made by Congress.

In what has become SOP, Repubs used the full faith & credit of the Govt as a hostage in a situation they helped to create when they passed the budget in the first place. The whole debt ceiling crisis was a contrivance, a trap, leading into the "fiscal cliff", more accurately called the austerity bomb... you know, what they're posturing about today.
Jhhnn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-20-2012, 07:55 AM   #25
bignateyk
Lifer
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 11,275
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Socio View Post
Sequestration of our military will shrink it down so much we could very well be butts waiting to be kicked.
Patently false. The military and all government agencies who doll out money to contractors are currently operating as though they have been sequestered.
bignateyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:47 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.