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Old 11-18-2012, 09:06 AM   #251
SirPauly
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DVagabond View Post
My statement. "You miss out on PhysX (Even though there's been exactly one game that uses it released all of this year.)"

You've taken what I said out of context and included games that haven't yet been released.
You offered the impression only one title for 2012, clearly -- added more data. Do you have a problem with this? Is offering GPU Physic support for PlanetSide 2, which is going to be released in two days not fair to you?
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Old 11-18-2012, 03:15 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by SirPauly View Post
You offered the impression only one title for 2012, clearly -- added more data. Do you have a problem with this? Is offering GPU Physic support for PlanetSide 2, which is going to be released in two days not fair to you?
I didn't offer any impression. I made a statement that was factual. You then acted like I was a liar by changing the condition to make it untrue. If you want to say that there will be more games released before the end of the year that support PhysX, that would be fine (Assuming you are accurate.). Instead you make out that what I said was inaccurate or false by changing the conditions. Then you get all internet tough guy about it. So, yes, I do have a problem with it and no it's not fair to me.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by SirPauly View Post
You offered the impression only one title for 2012, clearly -- added more data. Do you have a problem with this? Is offering GPU Physic support for PlanetSide 2, which is going to be released in two days not fair to you?
His post is very ambiguous and can be read both ways, the "all of this year" part does kinda imply the full year. Though I read his post to mean one title released all year so far.

I think bickering over something as trivial as weather GPU PhysX is great because it was on 3 as opposed to 1 game this year is not exactly selling it as a must have feature. I can think of loads of AAA titles that came out this year, so far only Borderlands 2 (?) has been touted as GPU PhysX enabled. And even that can be worked around with a hack so it works on AMD cards.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:33 PM   #254
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Nvidia releases their cheaper Kepler cards and gains marketshare - I don't see why this was not expected??

The AMD IGPs are also competing with their own low end GPUs too,which probably has not helped.

Moreover,actually Nvidia lost discrete marketshare to AMD in Q2 2012:

http://techreport.com/news/23482/rad...d-market-share

They went from 61.9% to 59.3% and AMD from 37.8% to 40.3% in Q2 2012. It seems AMD had lost marketshare at the end of last year to Nvidia too.

This is the thing,from quarter to quarter things can change,and it seems pretty much too and fro ATM.

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Old 11-18-2012, 06:33 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by 3DVagabond View Post
. You then acted like I was a liar by changing the condition to make it untrue.
Very sensitive.
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:35 PM   #256
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I don't really think it's as bad as it looks for AMD. Nvidia just filled very popular price range with new generation cards.
A lot of nVidia fans(irresponsible consumer) were happy to spend money.
And AMD's performance jumped only recently, so I expect the result will be visible in the Q4, which is most profitable.

It's kinda funny to read people blaming AMD for high prices at HD7xxx launch. There was quite a good reason for higher prices(new process, lower yields) and no reason to price GPUs more aggressively. Nvidia was catching up for a while.

Is AMD graphics division unprofitable?
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:13 PM   #257
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Nvidia proves that consumers can be ripped off knowingly and even be proud of it.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #258
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Nvidia proves that consumers can be ripped off knowingly and even be proud of it.
Marking is a very powerful thing, people greatly under estimate how influential it can be, especially on themselves. For example, people buy T-shirts with the Coca-Cola logo on it. A marketers dream, people paying the company to promote their products. But it is not that different than people on forums faithfully promoting a certain brand. The pattern is generally the same, same user posting links and headlines in multiple forums, often at about the same time.

A quick Google search shows the same usernames posting the same things almost verbatim across several forums, makes you wonder.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:24 PM   #259
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If AMD believes they lost market share because of NV's superior marketing they indeed are doomed.They need to do a thorough analysis regarding this.Discreet market share flip flops all the time it's not such a big deal, but on the the other losing the mobile share is a big blow indeed.People need to read the review of 7970M at AT and they will understand how far behind AMD's Enduro is.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:50 PM   #260
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It's not only poor marketing, not at all. But good brand perception can and does get you through the down times and will save your bacon during a poor generation(s) of product.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:18 AM   #261
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If AMD believes they lost market share because of NV's superior marketing they indeed are doomed.They need to do a thorough analysis regarding this.Discreet market share flip flops all the time it's not such a big deal, but on the the other losing the mobile share is a big blow indeed.People need to read the review of 7970M at AT and they will understand how far behind AMD's Enduro is.
I haven't heard anyone argue that AMD is superior in mobile. That's not what any of the marketing discussions have been about. It's desktop.

AMD is beating nVidia across the board perf/$ and all the detractors want to talk about are release prices, and ignore current prices and performance. That's marketing.
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Old 11-19-2012, 02:45 AM   #262
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Marking is a very powerful thing, people greatly under estimate how influential it can be, especially on themselves. For example, people buy T-shirts with the Coca-Cola logo on it. A marketers dream, people paying the company to promote their products. But it is not that different than people on forums faithfully promoting a certain brand. [B]The pattern is generally the same, same user posting links and headlines in multiple forums, often at about the same time.[B]

A quick Google search shows the same usernames posting the same things almost verbatim across several forums, makes you wonder.
Posting links and headlines can be for many reasons and can have nothing to do with influence at all but sometimes it is.
People tent to post headlines of the brand they are using because they are looking for info that would be the most useful for them plus the familiarity of the brand your using makes it more likely that you will be able to see the things that are maybe untrue/ misconceived and are able to put your first hand experience in if need be and not for the sake of the brand.

And lets just take a look at my Sig, its there to let people know what im using because it can be helpful and not there to promote the brands, but they get free promotion as a consequence, some people would use the logos of the brands which to me would mean that they have been influenced most likely.
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:22 AM   #263
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Discreet market share flip flops all the time it's not such a big deal, but on the the other losing the mobile share is a big blow indeed.People need to read the review of 7970M at AT and they will understand how far behind AMD's Enduro is.
Discrete is a big deal, but the range of flip flop is not huge. The mobile space where AMD is losing badly is much more a concern. They had 28nm headstart and couldn't even get design wins...
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Old 11-19-2012, 04:43 AM   #264
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I don't think so.AMD/NV gains/loses market share each quarter on the discreet front.It depends on their respective offering, in Q3 NV debuted the lower segment of Kepler cards hence the gain.I bet in Q4 AMD will gain market share.
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Old 11-19-2012, 06:58 AM   #265
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yeah the notebook market is where AMD has failed miserably. Last year AMD had 60% of the notebook market. Now they are at 35%. thats a steady but unmistakeable shift by OEMs towards Nvidia Optimus . AMD Enduro has been a nightmare from a software drivers and stability point of view. Its very difficult to win back these design wins when Nvidia is far ahead in overall robustness of their notebook drivers and the simplicity of Optimus. There is little bit hope for AMD on the desktop. With 12.11 drivers AMD products are better performing than Nvidia's products at the same price point across the entire stack. With the aggressive game bundles AMD can expect to get back to 40% on desktop. But mobile is where they are hurting the most. For that we have to wait and see how well they have done in design wins for Haswell notebook refresh cycle. but its looking very difficult for the next couple of quarters.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:44 AM   #266
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Originally Posted by 3DVagabond View Post
.

AMD is beating nVidia across the board perf/$ and all the detractors want to talk about are release prices, and ignore current prices and performance. That's marketing.
AMD usually beats nVidia with price/performance and nothing new. It's more than marketing;it's being extremely pro-active from nVidia, imho.

Release price shouldn't' be in the discussion, too?

AMD had a sweet spot strategy for years -- marketed this sweet spot strategy - differentiation from nVidia -- it worked so well that not only did they bring in solid profits and revenue, but gained share -- nVidia had trouble executing their monolithic dies as AMD enjoyed impressive execution - reaping the rewards.

AMD raised prices so much that the percentage MSRP gain was higher than the performance gain of the HD 6970. Raised prices so high that the predator premium King nVidia offered performance value in comparison.

For a company that executed first, one can start at the launch price as a potential misstep.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:54 AM   #267
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I do not see what the fuzz is about. In the spring 670 ruled the high end segment, and the 7850 ruled the main stream segment. You do not gain market shares by selling high end, that is not where the volume is. Then came the 660 in Q3, and I would have found it strange if Nvidia did not gain marketshare in Q3 compared to Q2 following that release. Right now the 7950 is the better buy over the 670 and the prices dropped closer to the sweet spot so I would not be surprised if the marketshares change again in Q4, but it is possible that volumes of $300 cards are still to small compared to sub $200 cards to really impact market shares. In other words, it is just business as usual, nothing new here.
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Old 11-19-2012, 08:58 AM   #268
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The GTX 660 came very late in Q3, with the GTX 650 ti in Q4!

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Old 11-19-2012, 09:16 AM   #269
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The GTX 660 came very late in Q3, with the GTX 650 ti in Q4!
Right, but still in Q3, and the 660ti came Aug 16. People holding out for an affordable Nvidia card probably bought one on launch or even prebooked theirs. Meanwhile, AMD had nothing new, only some new coolers from their partners. You do not need to be a finance genius to figure out which sold more in Q3.
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Old 11-19-2012, 09:28 AM   #270
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They did bring the HD 7970 ghz edition and HD 7950 boost!
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Old 11-19-2012, 10:50 AM   #271
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They did bring the HD 7970 ghz edition and HD 7950 boost!
~$400 cards are significantly less popular than $200-300 ones.
And again, good AMD drivers are new and make AMD cards not only competitive but clearly better than nVidia. Wait for Q4 results.
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Old 11-19-2012, 11:48 AM   #272
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~$400 cards are significantly less popular than $200-300 ones.
And again, good AMD drivers are new and make AMD cards not only competitive but clearly better than nVidia. Wait for Q4 results.
Q4 results? Many here are expecting Q4 bankruptcy announcements from AMD.
I'd think more positively about the situation but there just isn't a lot to be positive about here.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #273
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I guess the positive news is that at least the they still make good products. Hopefully they can remain competitive in the future, or at least be bought by someone who will continue their great GPU making while maintaining a good profit.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:10 PM   #274
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Q4 results? Many here are expecting Q4 bankruptcy announcements from AMD. I'd think more positively about the situation but there just isn't a lot to be positive about here.
Nvidia FUD at work. nice try. With the shrinking of the discrete GPU market going forward and a complete absence of Nvidia GPU in next gen consoles the road ahead for Nvidia is not going to be easy. remember with stacked DRAM and huge bandwidth CPUs going forward are going to eat into the < 100 discrete GPU market on desktop and an even bigger portion of the notebook discrete GPU market. Nvidia's consumer Geforce market will eventually be a shadow of what it is today. just wait and see the market in 2015.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:19 PM   #275
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Posting links and headlines can be for many reasons and can have nothing to do with influence at all but sometimes it is.
It's the pattern I'm talking about. People that post the same information on multiple forums on a consistent basis. These same people also tend to repeat the same points over and over again, similar to how an advertisement drills in your head a slogan. That is not having a discussion, it's a person with an agenda. What motivates these people I'm not sure, but if they are not being paid to do it, then I can't understand their motivation.
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Q4 results? Many here are expecting Q4 bankruptcy announcements from AMD.
No one is expecting that, well maybe you are hoping for it I don't know.
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