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Old 11-17-2012, 11:16 PM   #1
djw39
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Default Low-end Kepler?

Any news/rumors on either AMD or Nvidia releasing new versions of their low-end, low power graphics cards which support DirectX 11.1? I am looking to upgrade an old desktop which currently has GMA 3100 integrated graphics, and I'd like to get the full "hardware accelerating everything" benefits when I upgrade to Windows 8, but getting a GTX 650 and a new PSU is clearly overkill.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:03 AM   #2
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Why not this?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102969
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:43 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by Jaydip View Post
The HD 7750 or the GTX 650 cost $100 and would require a new PSU for this machine (280/250 watts). Too expensive for a non-gamer. I really just would like to get to the level of Intel's current integrated graphics solutions. This could be accomplished with the 6450 (AMD) or 520/610 (Nvidia). The most I could justify getting would be Turks, HD 6570. But neither company put out a new chip in this price/power class with their current-gen offerings, just rebadged the old ones, and so they don't do Direct3D 11.1.
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:23 AM   #4
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http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814127686
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Old 11-18-2012, 07:52 AM   #5
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Again, at 65w TDP for the GT 640 compared to 18w for the HD 6450 these are not in the same price/power consumption/performance class. My question is about future products, not looking for suggested purchases. The 610/620/630 e
g. are not Kepler, just rebadged Fermi. They thus are less efficient and don't have DX11.1 support. When do we see real Kepler versions of these low-end solutions?
Thanks for taking an interest!
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Old 11-18-2012, 08:34 AM   #6
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Total system power consumption with an overclocked Intel 3960X at 4.3ghz and a gtx650 while gaming is 231 watts. Remove the CPU overclock, and you're looking at 200 or less watts under load. I think that you'd be fine with the gtx650.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6359/t...0-ti-review/19
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:23 AM   #7
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First, the HD 7750 uses no PCIe power, it is the fastest card that runs off motherboard power.

Second, Intel iGPU HD4000 Ivy Bridge grapics are equivalent to HD 6670 DDR3/ GT 630 (renamed GT 440).

Third, Max TDP does not represent power usage under your conditions, you should be looking at idle TDP. Newer card draw less power under light usage than older ones.

i FIND the HD5450/HD6450 and GT520/GT610 underwhelming at any price.
Do you want a worthwhile upgrade or not?
DirectX 11 is not magic, the capability needs a chip that can use it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5845/n...30-into-retail

If you are looking for performance my feeling is HD 6550/GT 430, is the place to start for "future proof'.
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:40 AM   #8
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The competition
Trinity FM2 dual core A5400 $65 DirectX 11
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819113282

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813157331

http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboD...=Combo.1102167

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820148475
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infoiltrator View Post
First, the HD 7750 uses no PCIe power, it is the fastest card that runs off motherboard power.

Second, Intel iGPU HD4000 Ivy Bridge grapics are equivalent to HD 6670 DDR3/ GT 630 (renamed GT 440).

Third, Max TDP does not represent power usage under your conditions, you should be looking at idle TDP. Newer card draw less power under light usage than older ones.

i FIND the HD5450/HD6450 and GT520/GT610 underwhelming at any price.
Do you want a worthwhile upgrade or not?
DirectX 11 is not magic, the capability needs a chip that can use it.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5845/n...30-into-retail

If you are looking for performance my feeling is HD 6550/GT 430, is the place to start for "future proof'.
Agreed
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:25 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djw39 View Post
Again, at 65w TDP for the GT 640 compared to 18w for the HD 6450 these are not in the same price/power consumption/performance class. My question is about future products, not looking for suggested purchases. The 610/620/630 e
g. are not Kepler, just rebadged Fermi. They thus are less efficient and don't have DX11.1 support. When do we see real Kepler versions of these low-end solutions?
Thanks for taking an interest!
I doubt, we'll see anything. Geforce 640 is your best bet for the foreseeable future.

Given your situation and the circumstances, I would rather just build a new computer.
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Old 11-18-2012, 12:34 PM   #11
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First, the HD 7750 uses no PCIe power, it is the fastest card that runs off motherboard power.
The gtx650 runs off the motherboard and is a smidge faster.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/K..._EX_OC/27.html
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:02 PM   #12
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Arg. I really didn't want this to turn into everyone throwing in their two cents about upgrade options/telling me to build a new system, else I would have listed the complete system specs and the various inexpensive upgrades I have already made.

In conclusion, no one appears to know anything about either AMD or Nvidia bringing their current-generation 28nm architectures with Direct3D 11.1 support to low-end discrete gpus, by which I mean comparable to Turks 6570 and retailing for $50-60. Thanks anyway.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:30 PM   #13
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Arg. I really didn't want this to turn into everyone throwing in their two cents about upgrade options/telling me to build a new system, else I would have listed the complete system specs and the various inexpensive upgrades I have already made.

In conclusion, no one appears to know anything about either AMD or Nvidia bringing their current-generation 28nm architectures with Direct3D 11.1 support to low-end discrete gpus, by which I mean comparable to Turks 6570 and retailing for $50-60. Thanks anyway.
I already told you the the gtx650 would work just fine with your power supply as long as you are not overclocking anything.

FULL SYSTEM POWER CONSUMPTION WITH OVERCLOCKED HIGH END CPU is 231 watts:


Take off about 20-30 watts for the CPU being overclocked, and you're comfortably under the PSU's rated limit.

Last edited by tviceman; 11-18-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:42 PM   #14
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Kepler, Nvidia GT 640 is a entry level discrete dx11 card.
http://tpucdn.com/reviews/Zotac/GeFo...er_average.gif

It's right around 5570/6570 power usage.

edit: as stated above the gtx 650 with ddr5 would be faster, only slightly more expensive and using slightly more power.
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Old 11-18-2012, 05:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by tviceman View Post
I already told you the the gtx650 would work just fine with your power supply as long as you are not overclocking anything.

FULL SYSTEM POWER CONSUMPTION WITH OVERCLOCKED HIGH END CPU is 231 watts:
http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/graph6359/50600.png

Take off about 20-30 watts for the CPU being overclocked, and you're comfortably under the PSU's rated limit.
you do not even know what psu that he has though. it could be a cheap oem unit that cant even make much more than 150 watts on the 12v line in realistic conditions.
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Old 11-18-2012, 06:27 PM   #16
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you do not even know what psu that he has though. it could be a cheap oem unit that cant even make much more than 150 watts on the 12v line in realistic conditions.
You're right, but I doubt he has a gas guzzling high end CPU. I think he'd be fine. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/K..._EX_OC/25.html Average power consumption is 50 watts, max is 54 and that is with a factory overclock.
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Old 11-18-2012, 09:52 PM   #17
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Why do you even need DX 11.1 on such a low end card anyways?

Its like asking for a donkey + cart with a windshield, even if one did exist its never going to go fast enough to be of any use...
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:15 PM   #18
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Why do you even need DX 11.1 on such a low end card anyways?

Its like asking for a donkey + cart with a windshield, even if one did exist its never going to go fast enough to be of any use...
Pm me, that donkey cart sounds dope
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Old 11-18-2012, 10:32 PM   #19
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Why do you even need DX 11.1 on such a low end card anyways?
What I'm after is general system responsiveness, and smooth scrolling, consistent frame rates on heavy sites like Google+. Nothing that should require a $100 graphics card, or a full rebuild. But I did read a bit on how Windows 8 is using Direct3D 11.1 to improve base OS and IE10 responsiveness, and I'm curious to see if these refinements will make their way down to the actual lowest end cards for people who don't care about gaming. I suspect they will eventually, but instead everyone is just ignoring the question and suggesting $100 cards.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #20
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Well, there's the GK208 that's in development. Speculation is that it'll be the successor of the GF119 (520, 610, etc.), so if it is released in retail that might be what you're looking for.

You may end up waiting some time for that though.
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Old 11-18-2012, 11:32 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djw39 View Post
What I'm after is general system responsiveness, and smooth scrolling, consistent frame rates on heavy sites like Google+. Nothing that should require a $100 graphics card, or a full rebuild. But I did read a bit on how Windows 8 is using Direct3D 11.1 to improve base OS and IE10 responsiveness, and I'm curious to see if these refinements will make their way down to the actual lowest end cards for people who don't care about gaming. I suspect they will eventually, but instead everyone is just ignoring the question and suggesting $100 cards.
I think you are a bit too hung up on DX11.1. I doubt that it is going to make a huge difference in browser performance, especially since it sounds like you have an older system if you currently are running the x3100 graphics.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:10 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by iMacmatician View Post
Well, there's the GK208 that's in development. Speculation is that it'll be the successor of the GF119 (520, 610, etc.), so if it is released in retail that might be what you're looking for.

You may end up waiting some time for that though.

Thanks! That is exactly what I was hoping to find out.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:12 AM   #23
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Pm me, that donkey cart sounds dope
I've found the warranty coverage lacking honestly.
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Old 11-19-2012, 12:34 AM   #24
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I think you are a bit too hung up on DX11.1. I doubt that it is going to make a huge difference in browser performance, especially since it sounds like you have an older system if you currently are running the x3100 graphics.
I'm sure that's true. But I am slowly upgrading the pieces. I just picked up a used Core 2 Duo E8600, which should be a monster upgrade from the Pentium Dual Core E2200 I'm currently running. I already put in 4GB of RAM a few years ago, and added an Intel SSD over the summer. And what I did for the graphics recently was get a Radeon HD 2400 XT for $9. Believe it or not, that is actually a huge performance boost, and the computer finally plays HD videos without stuttering. So I think I'll be perfectly happy to wait for a Kepler refresh sometime in 2013.
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