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Old 11-14-2012, 06:42 PM   #1
cmdrdredd
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Default IGN: "When did gamers become bullies?"

http://www. ign. com/blogs/ereeeek/2...become-bullies


I don't agree. I think that bullies invaded our games. Generally speaking, back in the day gaming was more of a nerd's hobby, not something that everyone accepted in the mainstream. These days it seems like you're not really cool unless you play the hot new release in some circles.

Having said that I remember gamers being very helpful and supportive toward eachother. Always talking about strategy or trying to figure out how to beat that boss. Then the games moved to the internet and became more accessable. Every wannabe gangster can hop online and trash talk your mom with no consequences. These same people would never have touched video games a few years ago, but here they are and they bring their poor attitude with them. Add to that the fact that many gamers are too young to legally buy the titles they are playing and think some rapper is a good role model.

That's my take. I wish things were different, I would really very much like to be able to play games online without needing to listen, mute, or wade through the trash talkers and kids who curse like a drunken sailor with a speech impediment (ebonics).

P.S. The forums don't allow me to link to IGN so I had to edit the URL. Remove the spaces from the URL. Mods if linking to IGN articles is frowned upon let me know.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:12 PM   #2
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When did "gaming journalism" devolve into making problems out of things that aren't problems or asking questions that have obvious answers?
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:16 PM   #3
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They are problems...real problems. A lot of people won't play games online because the supposed community is hostile. It's alienating many users.

Yes I know you can mute or just not use the communicator, but the fact that you don't communicate at all at that point (no keyboard like on PC) makes it not feel like you're actually playing against anyone but a computer.

Also this is a Blog, says right in the URL. Blogs aren't necessarily journalism.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:22 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
They are problems...real problems. A lot of people won't play games online because the supposed community is hostile. It's alienating many users.

Yes I know you can mute or just not use the communicator, but the fact that you don't communicate at all at that point (no keyboard like on PC) makes it not feel like you're actually playing against anyone but a computer.

Also this is a Blog, says right in the URL. Blogs aren't necessarily journalism.
Then get off the internet if you can't handle some smacktalk.

Go the Eve Online way. An amazing response from the developers of Eve online against all the complainers and people who keep claiming there are problems with the community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

Stop complaining and HTFU.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:26 PM   #5
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Then get off the internet if you can't handle some smacktalk.

Go the Eve Online way. An amazing response from the developers of Eve online against all the complainers and people who keep claiming there are problems with the community.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgvM7av1o1Q

Stop complaining and HTFU.
Um...dude...you are exactly the damn problem.

Point proven.

There are people who don't want to be ridiculed every game. People who think some 12 year old acting like 50 cent is ridiculous and talking about your mom lost it's coolness factor in 5th grade.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:33 PM   #6
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Um...dude...you are exactly the damn problem.

Point proven.

There are people who don't want to be ridiculed every game. People who think some 12 year old acting like 50 cent is ridiculous and talking about your mom lost it's coolness factor in 5th grade.
And any reasonable adult can ignore it easily. Just ignore it, its words. Nobody in the world cares at all.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:05 PM   #7
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Yea because words never got anyone killed or started a war right?

I want some more Jay and Silent Bob type scenarios to happen so I too can laugh and be all "man up - you reap what you sew".
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:22 PM   #8
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I think part of the problem is the perception that the misnomer "hardcore gamer" gives some people. Being a gamer doesn't magically transform anyone into anything hardcore.

I generally only wear my headset when playing with people I know or friends of theirs. Nothing ruins a good game like people thinking they are bad asses.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:45 PM   #9
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Welcome to mainstream gaming. Be quiet and send Activision/EA your money.

Quality of games going waaaayyy down, the introduction of online content and DLC milking, and online gaming, starting with the Xbox, marked a milestone in the decline of gaming and we have the drooling horny masses to thank for that.

If you don't like it, you can always go buy an epic single player game.... oh wait they don't make those any more because it's easier to print money with another vs mode shooter for said drooling masses. No AI, no scripting or dialogue, no world maps, no story writing, no pathing, no bosses, etc. Versus only first person shooter is a bare bones shell of a video game, always has been. It's like the easiest cheapest thing in the world to make now days, especially when you use the same engine template 3 generations in a row.



Dude Grenades!!!! Dude my online stats!!! K/D ratios!1! Look @ these n00b lol!!1!

When I was that age, I huddled up in the dark under a blanket in the middle of winter and played Final Fantasy, etc until the sun came up and set at least twice before I passed out.

Now days people care more about their online stats than they do about their grades or salaries. And there is why you have trash talking and nerd raging. You screwed up somebody's win/loss ratio, you just ruined their life, of course they are going to mouth off. Lets not even talk about epeening over 733t g4m3r xc0rez and achievements.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:04 PM   #10
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Welcome to mainstream gaming. Be quiet and send Activision/EA your money.

Quality of games going waaaayyy down, the introduction of online content and DLC milking, and online gaming, starting with the Xbox, marked a milestone in the decline of gaming and we have the drooling horny masses to thank for that.

If you don't like it, you can always go buy an epic single player game.... oh wait they don't make those any more because it's easier to print money with another vs mode shooter for said drooling masses. No AI, no scripting or dialogue, no world maps, no story writing, etc. Multiplayer only first person shooter is a bare bones shell of a video game, it's like the easiest cheapest thing in the world to make.


Dude Grenades!!!! Dude my online stats!!! K/D ratios!1! Look @ these n00b lol!!1!
I agree with your tone but I disagree that there are no single player games. Skyrim, Dishonored, The Bioshock series, some would argue Mass Effect, Halo 4 is decent single player and the whole Halo series has a very good universe to back it up, Metro 2033, Batman, Max Payne, Grand Theft Auto, God of War, Assassin's Creed, uncharted. All games with engaging single player. This isn't even a full listing of nintendo games which are still good too. Some of them have tacked on MP but others have decent to great MP.

I think the perception that all games must have MP has something to do with it to a degree. There is a perception among many that it drags down the single player component.

P.S. I do realize you were mostly referring to FPS style games but I am only pointing out that quality single player games do exist.

The problem I'm talking about here is that in a game like BF3 or Halo 4 the gameplay is good and competition is fierce and fun but either nobody talks at all or they are all either annoying or so ridiculously rude that you don't have fun in the game with them talking so you mash the mute. With everyone muted the game feels hollow for me sometimes. I suppose because I never really played online enough to get a good friend list built up. That's my fault, but I am not super competitive, yet another reason that I find some people's attutude in a game to be a problem.

I still think the reason some people feel bullied is they went to gaming to get away from the jocks and kids at school who they attempted to avoid and they now find a whole new group online who act the same way in some cases. Simply because gaming is considered cool and ok now and for many who were here since the beginning, it was more of a thing for the nerds or smarter kids.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:07 PM   #11
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Ok yeah you're right there are some awesome single player games. They are just easily overshadowed and forgotten by the trillion ton gorilla known as vs mode FPS that are shoved down our throats.

But even the good single player games are shoe horned into either cookie cutter shooters or hack and slash molds even if the story and single player experience is decent.

I used to be all about the graphics and technology but every day I think more and more perhaps the jump 3D is the worst thing to happen to games. 6DOF but we are stuck with the same repetitive game play.

Friends warned me and I was like no way, 3D shooters for everything is awesome! But I think they were right all along.

I really don't know how to explain my feelings on the subject. I confuse myself some times. I mean I've spent tens of hundreds of hours in Fallout 3 and Borderlands and they are both of the shooter mold I have so much disdain for so I'm not really sure what it is I don't like about modern games.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:10 PM   #12
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Ok yeah you're right there are some awesome single player games. They are just easily overshadowed and forgotten by the trillion ton gorilla known as vs mode FPS that are shoved down our throats.
on the ShooterBox 360 lol

I did always think there was too many shooters on the Xbox and not enough platformers and adventure titles to mix it up. Like you said though, once Halo was selling millions and proved FPS games can work on a console...it's the favored genre.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:16 PM   #13
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Yeah, even the PS2 from the same generation as the original XBox had a vast library across all genres. It was with the XBox that I noticed the sudden disappearance of virtually anything but competitive online shooters and the push for "mature teens and adults" and things just haven't been the same for me since. PS2 was the last must have system for me. Though I have a 360 I can't think of more than 10-20 games that are must have, and those that I can name are multi platform. Well most of them.

And there we go again, "competitive online shooters", the origins of all the smack talking and poor attitudes while playing online. Back around the middle of the PS1 and N64 era (marking the start of the decline of RPGs and platformers and the beginnings of pre Halo console FPS) I went through a period where I was exclusively a PC gamer only where I played pretty much nothing but online shooters. Probably why I'm sick of them a decade later. The only damn genre that wont just DIE so other genres can flourish again.

Nothing has changed, there was just as much trash talk in UT, Quake, Counterstrike, etc. It's just that it's mainstream now and every 14-21 year old who couldn't afford a $3000 computer 10 years ago can jump on XBL and act like a badass today for the price of a part time McDonalds paycheck.

Sorry for all the edits, I'm doing my best to keep related to topic and not go into another "why exdeath hates shooters and modern games" thread derail since it's a closely related phenomenon to the topic.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:31 PM   #14
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And yeah now days you see people lining up for the latest Call of Duty because it's the "in" thing to do and it's what the cool kids are doing and everybody else is getting it, not because they are absolutely dying to immerse themselves in a quality game.

When I was at the store before the doors opened foaming at the mouth waiting to pick up Final Fantasy III in my youth, I didn't give a rats ass what everyone else was buying or what the cool kids were doing. I was ready for a trip to another world and a weekend without food or sunlight.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:32 PM   #15
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And any reasonable adult can ignore it easily. Just ignore it, its words. Nobody in the world cares at all.
WTF? loads of people care.

Would you drink in a pub where all the other customers throw abuse your way?
I've got better places to be and things to do than spend time with a bunch of people I don't like.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:40 PM   #16
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The things you are talking about, sharing hints, strategies, boss tactics, loot locations and secrets... those things just don't exist in an online competitive game. The only thing there is to talk about is coordinating with your teammates or trash talking the other players because there is really nothing else about those kinds of games to talk about.

Think about that... you mentioned discussing boss tactics as an example. There are no bosses in online games unless it's a MMO.

Thinking about it more, there really isn't much to talk about in a vs mode arena style shooter. No bosses, no tactics, no loot, pretty much the only thing there IS to do is trash talk? Hmm... I've had my share of vs FPS raging, the only difference is I'm naturally not a social person so I was never on a mic and vocal with it.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:50 PM   #17
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Welcome to mainstream gaming. Others above have made some real good and solid points on the issue.

I don't count Joe Douchebag that only buys Madden, CoD, whatever other yearly revising of the same game as a gamer. You put them down in front of something that doesn't hold their hand and/or gives them the truly do what they want and they don't know what to do.

Good recent example of this was Dishonored. Saw so many people just playing the game as a pure FPS and ragging on it for various reasons because of the way they played it. One of my closes friends bought the game (he would fall under Joe Dbag for most cases though he does purchase a few other games sometimes), I was over his house as he started playing it (I had already gotten about half way through the game by then) and the first thing he does when he gets out of the cell and sees 3 guards? Runs right in and kills them all, while my first thing I did was crouch and hide behind the wall eavesdrop on their conversation, then waited for them to separate and knocked out each one and hide their bodies and not alerting a soul. When I asked him why did he just start killing like he did, he was like I didn't know you could take them down non lethally. Even later when there was more then one guard in a spot and he didn't feel like waiting he would just shoot them and go on....he is part of the problem with gamers today.

Granted this isn't all the gamers faults nowadays because 99% of games don't even give us any other option other then the most obvious, and in most cases that is kill. Most people that I know who game I couldn't call a gamer, they are tards when it comes to playing a game. I have a few friends that act like I do when you are put into a game or when you get a new weapon/ability/whatever the first thing we try to do is find out what we can not do, we already know what it is suppose to do, but lets see what else (if anything) it can do by using your creativity.

Another example in Dishonored. When I first got a gun, first things I started checking were what could I do with it besides the obvious of killing people. I'd shoot lights to see if they went out making it easier to hide, I'd shot ropes, windows, etc to see if they destroy/break said items. Again my friend, the only thing he ever used a the gun for, kill kill kill.

/rant sorry

I've said it for awhile, we need another crash in gaming.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by exdeath View Post
Yeah, even the PS2 from the same generation as the original XBox had a vast library across all genres. It was with the XBox that I noticed the sudden disappearance of virtually anything but competitive online shooters and the push for "mature teens and adults" and things just haven't been the same for me since. PS2 was the last must have system for me. Though I have a 360 I can't think of more than 10-20 games that are must have, and those that I can name are multi platform. Well most of them.

And there we go again, "competitive online shooters", the origins of all the smack talking and poor attitudes while playing online. Back around the middle of the PS1 and N64 era (marking the start of the decline of RPGs and platformers and the beginnings of pre Halo console FPS) I went through a period where I was exclusively a PC gamer only where I played pretty much nothing but online shooters. Probably why I'm sick of them a decade later. The only damn genre that wont just DIE so other genres can flourish again.

Nothing has changed, there was just as much trash talk in UT, Quake, Counterstrike, etc. It's just that it's mainstream now and every 14-21 year old who couldn't afford a $3000 computer 10 years ago can jump on XBL and act like a badass today for the price of a part time McDonalds paycheck.

Sorry for all the edits, I'm doing my best to keep related to topic and not go into another "why exdeath hates shooters and modern games" thread derail since it's a closely related phenomenon to the topic.
The other thing was when you played Quake or UT you had to type. There was no voice communications at the time that was easily doable while playing. So a lot of people kept their messages short because when you were typing you were an easy target. I remember chat box kills in Quake 3. You'd see the icon over their head that noted they were typing a message, many people didn't care and used the opportunity for a cheap kill.

You also never had to hear their voice. It was easier to ignore text than it is to ignore someone on the end of a microphone.

Quote:
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The things you are talking about, sharing hints, strategies, boss tactics, loot locations and secrets... those things just don't exist in an online competitive game. The only thing there is to talk about is coordinating with your teammates or trash talking the other players because there is really nothing else about those kinds of games to talk about.

Think about that... you mentioned discussing boss tactics as an example. There are no bosses in online games unless it's a MMO.

Thinking about it more, there really isn't much to talk about in a vs mode arena style shooter. No bosses, no tactics, no loot, pretty much the only thing there IS to do is trash talk? Hmm... I've had my share of vs FPS raging, the only difference is I'm naturally not a social person so I was never on a mic and vocal with it.

Right, I was just comparing the two types of people. You have the gamers who have been playing for a while and someone will say "man I just can't complete that mission in GTA." or "I just can't figure out how to beat that part of Batman. Keep dying." Usually these people will say "oh hey I did it like this." Then you have the gamer who plays what is cool cause everyone is playing. He would just tell you that you suck and that it's so easy.

I think Far Cry 3 will be a good social game much like Borderlands 2. Co-Op is where it's at IMO unless you have enough friends to get some random team matches together.


Kaotik, what you said about how people approach games is a really good illustration. A lot of people who play games these days only think linearly. They lack the experience or understanding of critical thinking in a game or rather lack the desire to find another way to do it. These are the people who might be more inclined to give you a hard time when they beat you or when you make a mistake or even just to make themselves feel better.

Last night I jumped in a game of Halo 4 Dominion and the team I was on gave me a hard time for staying at the base. They said I should go get kills for them. The object of Dominion is much like conquest in BF3, you have to capture and try to defend bases. We ended up having only one base cause nobody wanted to try to capture another and if I left we would lose our one base and lose. Needless to say I ended up getting killed in a 3 on 1 fight and what do you know...we lost. Who was blamed? Me and let me tell you there was more than a few slurs thrown around, one calling me the N word and I'm actually white which made me laugh...another something about my mom.

It does suck and it won't change until like you said...the industry crashes and EA, Activision and a couple other big studios lose billions overnight and drop out or sell off. Then slowly the dedicated companies bring gaming back to market again. By that time all the CoD players would have left because there was no more CoD to play.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:08 PM   #19
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If you really think that bullying and trash talking is something new to gaming, then you never once stepped foot in an arcade in the early days of consoles. Only difference was back then you could actually talk it to the parking lot.
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Old 11-14-2012, 11:11 PM   #20
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If you really think that bullying and trash talking is something new to gaming, then you never once stepped foot in an arcade in the early days of consoles. Only difference was back then you could actually talk it to the parking lot.
Who said it was new? It's just gotten worse. I was in the arcades, I played Street Fighter 2 and was kicked off of more than one Mortal Kombat cabinet. I know how that all went. Nobody took it as far because you were face to face. These days it's all anonymous so people feel invincible. One of the main problems on the Internet with no solution.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:28 AM   #21
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Whatever, the people who do that just do it online because they know they would get their asses kicked if they did it in the real world.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:14 AM   #22
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If you really think that bullying and trash talking is something new to gaming, then you never once stepped foot in an arcade in the early days of consoles. Only difference was back then you could actually talk it to the parking lot.
No shit. Fighting games brought out all the trash talkers. It was fun though.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:16 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
Who said it was new? It's just gotten worse. I was in the arcades, I played Street Fighter 2 and was kicked off of more than one Mortal Kombat cabinet. I know how that all went. Nobody took it as far because you were face to face. These days it's all anonymous so people feel invincible. One of the main problems on the Internet with no solution.
That's true too. My friend wasn't even trash talking and almost got into a fight with an Asian gang playing Street Fighter II. He was a REALLY cheap player though, and most likely why most people that played him wanted to kick his ass.
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:42 AM   #24
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That's true too. My friend wasn't even trash talking and almost got into a fight with an Asian gang playing Street Fighter II. He was a REALLY cheap player though, and most likely why most people that played him wanted to kick his ass.
Corner-locked people with E. Fatass huh?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:03 AM   #25
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Corner-locked people with E. Fatass huh?
He didn't play Honda, but he had an assortment of cheap tactics at his disposal for other characters. For instance with Dhalsim, when he was close he'd middle punch you (upward chop), then middle grab. Since Dhalsim had the reach advantage, other characters couldn't use the throw to counter because they were out of range. He'd then continue to repeat that (chop, grab, chop, grab), and when the other player finally wised up (Ryu for instance) and tried to counter with an uppercut rather than a throw after the chop, he'd anticipate it and block instead of going for a throw. He'd then grab Ryu after he came down from his uppercut and repeated the process (chop, grab, chop, grab, block, grab, etc). Holy crap did that piss off people.
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