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Old 11-14-2012, 03:50 PM   #1
Qianglong
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Cool AMD's GPU Q3 2012 marketshare - 14% declines across the board to NVIDIA

http://blogs.barrons.com/techtraderd...cuts-consoles/

"AMD’s market share in desktop computers in the quarter decline from 40.7% in Q2 to 35.7%, while Nvidia’s rose from 59.3% to 64.3%. In notebook computers, AMD’s share fell more dramatically, from 44.8% to 34.2%, while Nvidia’s share rose from 55.2% to 65.8%."

This is odd, AMD's GPU offerings have been quite competitive and yet they are still losing share to nvidia. The notebook share decline is staggering, an almost 10% drop
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:55 PM   #2
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Stock also dropped 7.66%, leaving AMD with a marketcap of 1.37B$.

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Total “discrete graphics” chip shipments for AMD were down 14%, quarter over quarter.
Its really going downhill fast.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:05 PM   #3
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GCN is killing AMD.

nVidia now has 2/3 of the GPU market. That is hilarious.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:06 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by sontin View Post
GCN is killing AMD.

nVidia now has 2/3 of the GPU market. That is hilarious.
But the thing is, GCN is a very competitive architecture so maybe the reason doesn't lay in engineering or product competitiveness...maybe marketing/sales?
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:14 PM   #5
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AMD is a poorly managed company. They have a lot of talent and great products, but the just cannot get it all together. I really like my 7970 though, it is blistering fast and for a mere... $369.99. Runs 1150/1500 stock.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:17 PM   #6
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Explains the price drops.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:19 PM   #7
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Explains the price drops.
I guess the price drops (and the game bundles) are attempts to increase the sell-through for Q4?
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:26 PM   #8
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Predictable.
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Originally Posted by sontin View Post
GCN is killing AMD.

nVidia now has 2/3 of the GPU market. That is hilarious.
Can't imagine how much you'll laugh if AMD goes out of business.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #9
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Predictable.

Can't imagine how much you'll laugh if AMD goes out of business.
While it's easy to overplay price rises from Nvidia and Intel, looking at some posters here I think some would actually be happy to pay another $100 or so for Nvidia stuff. There are certain enthusiast who think paying premium prices puts them in a special group or something.

Although like with Intel the more likely thing is not price rises as such but more feature segmentation (although in Intel's case that might be hard - their cheap chips have almost no features left to disable).
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:34 PM   #10
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The graphics division was one of the only things that was going ok for AMD but looks like they got hit with a big blow. Wonder how Charlie will spin this one.

Btw, could the graphics division (ATi) jump out of the sinking ship that is known as AMD?
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by KompuKare View Post
While it's easy to overplay price rises from Nvidia and Intel, looking at some posters here I think some would actually be happy to pay another $100 or so for Nvidia stuff. There are certain enthusiast who think paying premium prices puts them in a special group or something.
Yes, the start of the year with the 7900 and 7800 prices was fun to watch.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:47 PM   #12
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The graphics division was one of the only things that was going ok for AMD but looks like they got hit with a big blow. Wonder how Charlie will spin this one.

Btw, could the graphics division (ATi) jump out of the sinking ship that is known as AMD?
That would be a messy split with all the interwoven IP at this point. Plus desktop GPUs really aren't a good money generator at this point, too much R&D just for PC gaming.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:48 PM   #13
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Btw, could the graphics division (ATi) jump out of the sinking ship that is known as AMD?
Both SeaMicro and ATI could jump out. And most likely something you wish to attempt to sell in a breakup.

However...AMDs management. I have a feeling the ship will go down with crew and rats all together, rather than putting the able in the lifeboat.
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:57 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by sontin View Post
GCN is killing AMD.

nVidia now has 2/3 of the GPU market. That is hilarious.
You keep saying this. That is simply not the case. GCN is a great architecture, but it was horribly overpriced out of the gate and it took AMD too long to adjust / respond to Kepler. If the 7970 had been $450 from the very start (and all other GCN products priced accordingly), or had they released the hd7970GE in January @ $500, I truly think the desktop share would be a different story. But AMD decided to completely shoot themselves in the foot.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:03 PM   #15
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If the 7970 had been $450 from the very start (and all other GCN products priced accordingly), or had they released the hd7970GE in January @ $500, I truly think the desktop share would be a different story. But AMD decided to completely shoot themselves in the foot.
Doubtful. People will buy Nvidia only because of the name (marketshare numbers bear this out). Even on this very forum there are quite a few people that will simply not buy AMD no matter what, price doesn't matter. AMD does not have the influence (read money) to gain or even maintain marketshare.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:16 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by sontin View Post
GCN is killing AMD.

nVidia now has 2/3 of the GPU market. That is hilarious.
Ya, enjoy your $600-700 GTX780 and stagnation of GPU pricing if AMD fails. You realize if AMD goes under, NV can keep GTX760Ti at $300 for more than a year and not care because as a consumer your choice would be to buy a GTX760Ti or not game. Let's see, NV could keep prices flat and release new GPUs at the same prices. This is exactly what Apple does. No more price competition for us gamers if AMD goes under. That's hilarious.

NV already raised mid-range GTX460 from $199/$229 to $299 with the introduction of GTX660Ti. They also locked voltage control, didn't drop prices this generation. This is hilarious for us consumers, for sure.

GCN is not killing AMD but it's more like NV's excellent marketing and execution and to some extent loyal customers are all hurting AMD and have been since HD4000 series. If anything, this is 100% proof that a ton of NV's users are no different from Apple i-sheep and wait 6-8 months to give NV their $ for sub-$300 space, and still give NV money when they sell slower and more expensive high-end desktop GPUs.

Let's see:

1) NV waited 6+ months to launch sub-$300 28nm product. Instead of buying 28nm GCN products, its loyal customers waited patiently to give NV their $, or bought 40nm Fermis.

2) NV didn't drop prices, which made its entire line overpriced from a price/performance perspective and yet it still sold. Says a lot about NV's ability to market their premium brand, more than how good their cards are. Pretty interesting how AMD overpriced their cards but after price drops began, it was NV whose line became overpriced and yet NV fans still don't want to admit this.

3) NV locked voltage control completely and yet enthusiasts actually defended this move.

4) Even after AMD recaptured the price/performance and performance at every price level under $600, NV users still think NV is the best!

5) AMD got all the blame for high prices this generation, but it is NV that had an overpriced line-up in North America, Oceania and most of Europe at least since early summer.

I said it before, NV customers won't buy AMD cards even if they are faster, overclock better, have more free games, and cost less. HD7000 desktop series proves this.

Latest reviews show AMD is winning against NV in every price bracket for single-GPUs on the desktop and that lead is not small either when you consider the added value of game bundles, overclocking, solid MSAA performance, more VRAM, better performance with mods.

HD7970 Ghz beats GTX680 easily, and HD7950 V2 beat GTX660Ti in 12 out of 14 games:
http://www.legionhardware.com/articl...t_clock,1.html

Same story in HardOCP's review ("HD7950 demolished GTX660Ti):
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/...rison_roundup/

Same story in TPU's review (AMD has a faster single-GPU at every price level):
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/A...1_Performance/

I am not surprised. NV sold crap with GeForce 5 and 7 and GTX550Ti was the best selling GPU on Amazon for a long time.

In case you haven't noticed, NV is now losing in nearly 90% of GPU demanding games on the market at comparable pricing levels.

- BF3
- MOH:W
- Metro 2033
- Witcher 2
- Sleeping Dogs
- Skyrim with Mods
- Dirt Showdown
- Sniper Elite V2
- all Crysis games
- all Arma games
- Alan Wake

You can now count on 1 hand the number of wins GTX680 has over 7970 Ghz (Dragon Age II, Lost Planet 2, umm what else, WOW?)

With HD4000-6000 series, AMD offered amazing price/performance, unlocking of 6950 and NV users still didn't buy.
With HD7000 series, starting in early summer, AMD offers class leading price/performance, overclocking, MSAA performance, mod performance, and now they offer game bundles and NV users still don't buy.

Marketing sells; and NV is amazing at marketing, just like Apple!
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:19 PM   #17
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Marketing sells; and NV is amazing at marketing, just like Apple!
You could have left out the entire rest of your post and simply posted what I quoted, and would have gotten the same point across.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:24 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by tviceman View Post
You keep saying this. That is simply not the case. GCN is a great architecture, but it was horribly overpriced out of the gate and it took AMD too long to adjust / respond to Kepler. If the 7970 had been $450 from the very start (and all other GCN products priced accordingly), or had they released the hd7970GE in January @ $500, I truly think the desktop share would be a different story. But AMD decided to completely shoot themselves in the foot.
You gotta remember that HD7970 GE probably comprises 2-3% of the entire desktop GPU stack. It doesn't really matter. The loss of market share is for Q3 when HD7970 was cheaper than 680 and HD7970 Ghz was not more expensive than 680 but already faster. In Q3, the entire HD7000 series was cheaper and offered more price/performance across more or less every price bracket. You can't really blame this on HD7970GE's sales. There is more to it - brand value, market perception, fear of AMD failing maybe and not supporting drivers for your purchased card? It's probably cards such as GT640/650/650Ti/660/660Ti that are doing most of the damage. Ironically, those cards are the worst value in NV's line against competing AMD products. At least GTX670 is still awesome but all those other cards are turds at their prices.

I think most of this is attributable to market perception and to some extent awful GPU reviews. Very few professional reviewers did fair reviews once GTX650Ti/660/660Ti launched. They straight up paired after-market NV cards against "reference 7950B" and reference HD7850/7870 cards. So it allowed NV to showcase it's best products against AMD's worst as their reference designs are turds. Additionally, if people are still looking at old reviews from spring of 2012, then GTX670 is faster than HD7970. Based on that they might be thinking that GTX670 after-market is as fast as HD7970 Ghz and GTX680 is the fastest single-GPU. The perception that NV is faster is probably is unchanged outside of enthusiast forums where people follow GPUs closely like we do. I bet the average consumer thinks it is NV who has the fastest cards at every bracket because the perception from launch Kepler reviews was that GTX670/680 easily beat 7950/7970 for less $. If you don't follow GPUs closely, it's only natural that you'd think every card below NV's flagship is also faster.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:27 PM   #19
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I guess confirmation bias of a purchase is very strong. lol
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:28 PM   #20
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Ya, enjoy your $600-700 GTX780 and stagnation of PC pricing. NV already raised mid-range GTX460 from $199/$229 to $299 with the introduction of GTX660Ti. They also locked voltage control, didn't drop prices this generation. This is hilarious for us consumers, for sure.
I guess people who bought a 7970 for $549 agree with you.

Quote:
GCN is not killing AMD but it's more like NV loyal customers are killing AMD and have been since HD4000 series. If anything, this is 100% proof that a ton of NV's users are no different from Apple i-sheep and wait 6-8 months to give NV their $ for sub-$300 space, and still give NV money when they sell slower and more expensive high-end desktop GPUs.
"Loyal NV customers" got a much better deal with the GTX680 for $499 end of March than "loyal AMD customers". But i guess the time AMD overpriced the desktop cards erased from your memory...

Quote:
1) NV waited 6+ months to launch sub-$300 28nm product. Instead of buying 28nm GCN products, it's customers waited patiently to give NV their $.
People who waited got a much better deal 6 months later. Why should they pay for overpriced AMD products?

Quote:
2) NV didn't drop prices, which made its entire line overpriced from a price/performance perspective and yet it still sold. Says a lot about NV's ability to market their premium brand, more than how good their cards are.
And what would happen if nVidia decreases the prices? Oh AMD would do the same. Nothing changes. Nobody sees value in AMD cards.

Quote:
3) NV locked voltage control completely and yet enthusiasts actually defended this move.
You can't overvolt AMD cards to whatever number you want. Yet you have no problem with that.

Quote:
4) Even after AMD recaptured the price/performance and performance at every price level under $600, NV users still think NV is the best!
And? What's your problem with that?

[quote]
5) AMD got all the blame for high prices this generation, but it is NV that had an overpriced line-up in North America, Oceania and most of Europe at least since early summer.

Really? Come one. We have overpriced nVidia cards because of AMD. But i think if we ignore the time between January and July you are right...

Quote:
I said it before, NV customers won't buy AMD cards even if they are faster, overclock better, have more free games, and cost less. HD7000 desktop series proves this.
And AMD users don't buy nVidia cards. So what. You seem to have a problem with a free mind.

Quote:
You can now count on 1 hand the number of wins GTX680 has over 7970 Ghz (Dragon Age II, Lost Planet 2, umm what else, WOW?)

Marketing sells; and NV is amazing at marketing, just like Apple!
Oh, what happened to the $549 7970 card? Oh right, it did not exist. My fault.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:30 PM   #21
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Doubtful. People will buy Nvidia only because of the name (marketshare numbers bear this out).
Ironically, AMD did take over-all discrete market share away from nVidia in 2010 -- how was this possible?
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:33 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by RussianSensation View Post
Marketing sells; and NV is amazing at marketing, just like Apple!
What has been the difference in nVidia's marketing from 2010, when AMD had discrete leadership?
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:40 PM   #23
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You gotta remember that HD7970 GE probably comprises 2-3% of the entire desktop GPU stack. It doesn't really matter. The loss of market share is for Q3 when HD7970 was cheaper than 680 and HD7970 Ghz was not more expensive than 680 but already faster. In Q3, the entire HD7000 series was cheaper and offered more price/performance across more or less every price bracket. You can't really blame this on HD7970GE's sales. There is more to it - brand value, market perception, fear of AMD failing maybe and not supporting drivers for your purchased card? It's probably cards such as GT640/650/650Ti/660/660Ti that are doing most of the damage. Ironically, those cards are the worst value in NV's line against competing AMD products. At least GTX670 is still awesome but all those other cards are turds at their prices.

I think most of this is attributable to market perception and to some extent awful GPU reviews. Very few professional reviewers did fair reviews once GTX650Ti/660/660Ti launched. They straight up paired after-market NV cards against "reference 7950B" and reference HD7850/7870 cards. So it allowed NV to showcase it's best products against AMD's worst as their reference designs are turds. Additionally, if people are still looking at old reviews from spring of 2012, then GTX670 is faster than HD7970. Based on that they might be thinking that GTX670 after-market is as fast as HD7970 Ghz and GTX680 is the fastest single-GPU. The perception that NV is faster is probably is unchanged outside of enthusiast forums where people follow GPUs closely like we do. I bet the average consumer thinks it is NV who has the fastest cards at every bracket because the perception from launch Kepler reviews was that GTX670/680 easily beat 7950/7970 for less $. If you don't follow GPUs closely, it's only natural that you'd think every card below NV's flagship is also faster.
I'm speaking beyond what prices are right now. I'm saying first impressions are everything, and the first impressions of GCN, at the prices they were intro'd at, were mixed AT BEST, disappointing more often than not. The gtx480 and gtx470 had dramatic tradeoffs in reaching the performance attained by each card, so much so that they didn't sell well until Nvidia dumped the prices of the cards. The differene between that situation and this situation is that, at least, Nvidia had the performance crown when the gtx480 came out. So while they lost on many metrics, they still won in the all important performance metric. That AMD did not react to this, nor did they react until after the gtx670 came, sealed the deal. The wound was huge by then and dropping prices now is like putting ointment on 50 stitches when it could have been limited to a simple paper cut.

Last edited by tviceman; 11-14-2012 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:40 PM   #24
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I guess confirmation bias of a purchase is very strong. lol
I straight up recommended GTX670/680 cards for months. Prove me wrong. My recommendations change if:

1) Prices change
2) Overclocking changes the game
3) Price/performance significantly changes based on #1 and #2
4) Drivers and new games change the standing.

GTX600 line was great until June and since then became overpriced. Yet in Q3 NV gained market share on the desktop. How do you explain that?

Pretty funny how this entire generation NV users completely ignored the amazing overclocking power of a $280-300 HD7950.

I forgot though, overclocking only counts if it's an NV card like GTX460/470 and power consumption only matters if it's AMD cards that are worse in that regard.





Performance speaks for itself. Stock or OC vs. OC:

HD7970 Ghz > GTX680
HD7970 > GTX670
HD7950 > GTX660Ti
HD7870 > GTX660
HD7850 > GTX650Ti.

You can call me biased all you want, I got $900 of GPUs for free because of bitcoin mining. It'll take free HD7970s OCed over $900 GTX680s in SLI any day. I know I am going to need that $900 I saved for the future as it looks like NV might be the only GPU firm standing soon. Looking forward to 8800GTX, GTX280 NV pricing. I am excited.

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Originally Posted by tviceman View Post
I'm speaking beyond what prices are right now. I'm saying first impressions are everything, and the first impressions of GCN, at the prices they were intro'd at, were mixed AT BEST, disappointing more often than not. And that AMD did not react to this, nor did they react until after the gtx670 came, sealed the deal.
I guess I expected consumers to evaluate purchases not based on "first impressions" but on research. Stupid assumption on my part. I agree with your assessment. The perception that NV had better cards carried through from the beginning. Shows how much launch reviews matter. As I said earlier, almost all GTX660/660Ti reviews compared NV's better after-market designs to reference HD7870/HD7950 "Boost" edition. That was a huge marketing failure on AMD's part as well.
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Last edited by RussianSensation; 11-14-2012 at 05:45 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:45 PM   #25
NIGELG
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AMD has to be blamed for this state they are in....and now they are taking the former Ati down with them.

No sense in blaming ''sheeple' or whatever.The game looks like it's almost up for AMD unless there is a miracle to come.

I like Ati/graphics cards and it will be a sad day to have to go back to Nvidia cards which have always without fail let me down when I owned them...
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