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Old 11-14-2012, 01:55 PM   #26
xj0hnx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ausm View Post
Any good lefty worth their salt KNOWS Rightists LOOOOOOOOVE Cheap labor!
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Originally Posted by jstern01 View Post
That is not really true. Conservatives love illegal immigrants because their overlord and masters love it. As I mentioned before. If corporations and business (large and small) did not employ illegal immigrants for their economic selfishness, then the argument over illegal immigrants would be much more believable.
You really think that only right wingers are hiring illegals? lol, how cute. Fact is that the vast majority of conservatives don't hire illegals, so that's another half truth the left likes to throw down when confronted with the truth that it has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, and everything to do with illegal immigration in an effort to deflect when called on their bullshit.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:57 PM   #27
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Why is it the liberals seem to think that corporations should be required to enforce our immigration laws by police should be prohibited from doing so?
Because its against the law to hire them.... maybe, possibly... But they do it so they can pay them lower wages, work them harder and longer, and if they get uppity, call ICE to collect them. Seriously are you that naive. If every employer simple used e-verify to check their potential employees eligiblity to work in the US.

U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.

E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:00 PM   #28
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You really think that only right wingers are hiring illegals? lol, how cute. Fact is that the vast majority of conservatives don't hire illegals, so that's another half truth the left likes to throw down when confronted with the truth that it has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, and everything to do with illegal immigration in an effort to deflect when called on their bullshit.
I was simply illustrating why Rightists would love illegals...
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:03 PM   #29
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Because its against the law to hire them.... maybe, possibly... But they do it so they can pay them lower wages, work them harder and longer, and if they get uppity, call ICE to collect them. Seriously are you that naive. If every employer simple used e-verify to check their potential employees eligiblity to work in the US.

U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.

E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.
Way to completely miss the point. He's pointing out your hypocrisy by trying to use employers hiring illegals against conservatives, but at the same time opposing the federal, or state governments attempts to fix the problem in the first place.

On that note, I completely agree that employers should be taken to task if they hire illegals.
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Last edited by xj0hnx; 11-14-2012 at 02:06 PM.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:05 PM   #30
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I was simply illustrating why Rightists would love illegals...
And yet all you managing to "simply illustrate" is your big lie.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:11 PM   #31
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You really think that only right wingers are hiring illegals? lol, how cute. Fact is that the vast majority of conservatives don't hire illegals, so that's another half truth the left likes to throw down when confronted with the truth that it has nothing whatsoever to do with immigration, and everything to do with illegal immigration in an effort to deflect when called on their bullshit.
Please provide proof that vast majorities of conservatives do not hire illegals?

Here's a reminder of your party's candidate on that issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4gHmzZhY0
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:14 PM   #32
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Because its against the law to hire them.... maybe, possibly... But they do it so they can pay them lower wages, work them harder and longer, and if they get uppity, call ICE to collect them. Seriously are you that naive. If every employer simple used e-verify to check their potential employees eligiblity to work in the US.

U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.

E-Verify is an Internet-based system that allows businesses to determine the eligibility of their employees to work in the United States. E-Verify is fast, free and easy to use – and it’s the best way employers can ensure a legal workforce.
And why is it reasonable to expect private corporations to enforce immigration laws, while at the same time opposing having law enforcement enforce immigration laws.

EDIT: And I have no problem with requiring employers to use e-verify as an additional protection to keep illegal immigrants from working.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:15 PM   #33
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Please provide proof that vast majorities of conservatives do not hire illegals?

Here's a reminder of your party's candidate on that issue.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hw4gHmzZhY0
How about you provide proof that they do, it's your accusation.

And republican isn't "my party". I know it's hard for you to understand things that aren't crammed into neat little R and D boxes.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:17 PM   #34
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And yet all you managing to "simply illustrate" is your big lie.
Why is it a lie? You think Rightists don't love cheap labor?
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:21 PM   #35
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Why is it a lie? You think Rightists don't love cheap labor?
As much as leftist business owners do I suppose.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:22 PM   #36
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How about you provide proof that they do, it's your accusation.

And republican isn't "my party". I know it's hard for you to understand things that aren't crammed into neat little R and D boxes.
I was not the one claim that they did not, but here ya go. Check section headed "Please check where your political affiliations lie in the following three categories." As you can see, most business are conservative in their political affilations, and if we both agree that business hire illegals, QED most businesses that hire illegals are conservatives.

http://www.nsba.biz/vote/docs/NSBA-Politics-2012.pdf
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Last edited by jstern01; 11-14-2012 at 02:26 PM. Reason: fixed wording following QED
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:24 PM   #37
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As much as leftist business owners do I suppose.
I don't see the left motivated to end the minimum wage or change the States over to "Right to fire" work places.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:32 PM   #38
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nehalem256

"Why is it the liberals seem to think that corporations should be required to enforce our immigration laws by police should be prohibited from doing so?"

I have no idea what you just said!
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:33 PM   #39
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I was not the one claim that they did not, but here ya go. Check section headed "Please check where your political affiliations lie in the following three categories." As you can see, most business are conservative in their political affilations, and if we both agree that business hire illegals, QED most conservatives hire illegals.

http://www.nsba.biz/vote/docs/NSBA-Politics-2012.pdf
No, you claimed that conservatives hire illegals, I stated that the vast majority of them do not. you're going off on an irrelevant tangent, now please prove that the majority of conservatives hire illegal aliens, because if it's not the majority, and it's just a few business, or a some leftist business owners hire illegals too, then your just trying to perpetrate yet another line of bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with conservatives not having a problem with legal immigration, but rather with ILLEGAL immigration.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:46 PM   #40
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No, you claimed that conservatives hire illegals, I stated that the vast majority of them do not. you're going off on an irrelevant tangent, now please prove that the majority of conservatives hire illegal aliens, because if it's not the majority, and it's just a few business, or a some leftist business owners hire illegals too, then your just trying to perpetrate yet another line of bullshit that doesn't have anything to do with conservatives not having a problem with legal immigration, but rather with ILLEGAL immigration.
I just prove they do. If we both agree that businesses are hiring illegals, and from the provided link most business are conservative. Therefore conservatives hire illegals and since most business owners are conservative, it can be logically deducted that the majority of business that hire illegals are conservatives.

Pretty simple logic, shame you have issues following it. I never denied that liberals did not hire illegals either, just that conservatives hire them. Don't do the naive thing on me.

I really have to stop feeding the trolls..
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:59 PM   #41
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Why is it a lie? You think Rightists don't love cheap labor?
Democrats do not have companies that employ workers?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:28 PM   #42
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I just prove they do. If we both agree that businesses are hiring illegals, and from the provided link most business are conservative. Therefore conservatives hire illegals and since most business owners are conservative, it can be logically deducted that the majority of business that hire illegals are conservatives.
This in no way whatsoever proves that the majority of conservatives hire illegals. that some conservative business owners have hired illegals doesn't mean anything, or have anything to do with the lie that conservatives hate immigrants.

Quote:
Pretty simple logic, shame you have issues following it. I never denied that liberals did not hire illegals either, just that conservatives hire them. Don't do the naive thing on me.

I really have to stop feeding the trolls..
I don't think you know what logic means, since you have attempted to divert from your lie that conservatives hate immigrants, but somehow the proof of that is that ...they hire illegals.
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:24 PM   #43
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Democrats do not have companies that employ workers?
Of course not! Democrats make up the entirety of the 47% moocher class in this country.

Isn't that what this election, and what ATP&N has been saying over the last ~2 months?
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Old 11-14-2012, 05:57 PM   #44
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^^ this

The Dems were the part out of favor and had to work to get back.
Part by changing and part by Republican overconfidence.

The same can happen again. Many of the Democrat champions here either were not around or have a short memory.

Voters when they get frustrated will turn on the party in charge and quickly.
I would agree that these things seem to be cyclical. But they're not naturally cyclical, as you said the Dems had to work to get back broader support. Republicans can of course do the same, and I'd argue they don't have all that far to go to do it, but the question is will they.

And I'm not sure Republicans becoming more moderate is a "nightmare for Democrats" outside of the really, REALLY partisan ones. I personally wouldn't mind having two parties to choose from instead of feeling like I'm forced to vote Democrat because the Republicans are so bad. I'd welcome a Republican party I feel I could vote for with a clean conscience.

But for those Dems who are concerned, they can rest somewhat easier when they realize it's not entirely clear Republicans are at a comparable point to 1988's Democrats. The article is addressed to Democrats, but in fact it should be Republicans who take the lesson from 1988's Dems. Reading Republican opinion pieces post election, the idea of "change" doesn't seem to be as widely embraced as people on both sides might hope. And as this thread makes pretty clear, the idea that there is nothing wrong is alive and well too.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:04 PM   #45
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The left's "Conservatives hate immigrants" is the biggest lie that they keep trying to perpetuate. Conservatives have zero problem with immigration at all, it is ILLEGAL immigration that is the problem. Why can't the left stop lying about this?
Because what you're saying isn't exactly true. You don't have to listen for very long to hear some conservatives talking about the declining percentage of white people in our population or trying to make English the national language or laws making it easier to harass people who "look illegal" or any of a list of things that makes it at least sound like the problem isn't JUST that some people are here illegally...the problem is also that they're here at all. I'm not saying it's everyone, or even most people, but you can't ignore that there is some anti-immigrant sentiment there too.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:04 PM   #46
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Obviously, big business hires illegals, and most business owners are conservatives. They do it directly as with Swift's packing plants & the numerous raids there, or indirectly, through franchisees of fast food & other such ventures, subcontractors in construction, so forth & so on.

http://www.google.com/search?q=ICE+r...ient=firefox-a

Only the strongest denialists will contest that.

It's a win-win-win for right wing capitalists, who get cheap labor, use it to suppress wages, use illegal immigration they basically sponsor to whip up sentiment in their base.

Big business luvs illegals. They work hard, don't complain, and they'll never organize, because they have no rights. They're also completely disposable. They also expect to be screwed, and take it quite stoically.

E-verify? What a giggle. It's only voluntary, so, uhh, figure it out, guys.

What the OP ignores about the current situation wrt Repubs is that they've radicalized their base for 30 years, because it helped to motivate them & to win elections in many areas. The Teahadists are a symptom of that, and the ability & willingness of radical right wing funders to reach around the RNC to fund them really should be obvious. If you can't win the base, you can't win the primary to get on the ticket, and if you win the base, you can't win the general election because of what you said to win the primary...

Dems always had a broad enough base of opinion to overcome their own radicals, field candidates w/ broad appeal, but Repubs have systematically purged their ranks with several litmus tests, and currently exhibit a very narrow range of opinion that won't be easy to shift, at all, certainly not with the Koch Bros & others funding the most radical elements.

So when it comes time to quit posturing & work something out with Dems, Repub leaders get jammed by their own base & caucus. Notice how Boehner never turns his back to Cantor? There's a reason for that...
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:13 PM   #47
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Obviously, big business hires illegals, and most business owners are conservatives...
And for all your blathering on and on, it still is not proof that a majority of conservative business owners hire illegals, and it does nothing to address the lie that conservatives hate immigrants.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:22 PM   #48
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Ha OP, like its going to be easy for the Republicans to get rid of the Chritianists and the plutocrats funding you.

Good luck with that.
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Old 11-14-2012, 07:50 PM   #49
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And for all your blathering on and on, it still is not proof that a majority of conservative business owners hire illegals, and it does nothing to address the lie that conservatives hate immigrants.
Oh, please. Which areas of the country have passed their own immigration laws? The most conservative ones. Which segment of the population opposes raising immigration quotas & streamlining the process? Conservatives. Which segment of the population opposes any sort of amnesty? Conservatives. Which segment of the population demonizes illegals as moochers & welfare cheats? Conservatives. Which segment of the population wants "English only" schools & govt? Conservatives. Which segment of the population idolizes the Constitution yet wants to weasel around birthright citizenship? Conservatives. Which segment of the population exhibits a cultural animosity towards immigrants? Conservatives, and that hasn't changed since Irish immigration.

Conservative business owners don't employ illegals? Ownership of big business is so far removed from actual operations that they don't even care who their managers hire, so long as plausible deniability is maintained. If it's not, they blame their local managers, not the board members or the stockholders. Conservative business leaders rigorously oppose any sort of reform that would place financial responsibility on companies hiring illegals, and any sort of system that would force them to actually verify an applicant's legal status.

Sheesh. Stop with the knee-jerk bullshit.
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:10 PM   #50
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Oh, please. Which areas of the country have passed their own immigration laws? The most conservative ones.
Say it with me i-l-l-e-g-a-l-s

Quote:
Which segment of the population opposes raising immigration quotas & streamlining the process?
Why raise quotas? And I don't know anyone that is against stream lining the process as long as it's fair to those that have been in the process for years, and doesn't grant amnesty for breaking the law.

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Which segment of the population opposes any sort of amnesty?
Pretty much every immigrant I know, and that's quite a few, to include my family is against amnesty. Why should illegals be rewarded for breaking the law, and skipping the process that millions have had to endure through, and pay for, to come here legally?

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Which segment of the population demonizes illegals as moochers & welfare cheats?
As they should be. Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's pretty much only the most left of the left that want to reward law breakers, and cheaters.

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Which segment of the population wants "English only" schools & govt?
I've yet to meet someone that wants English only, but yes, there's a lot of people that want English to be our countries official language. Believe it or not, there was a time when people came to America to actually become Americans, not just to see what they can get from us.

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Which segment of the population idolizes the Constitution yet wants to weasel around birthright citizenship?
Once again, why should we reward people for breaking our laws?

Quote:
Which segment of the population exhibits a cultural animosity towards immigrants?
Believe it or not, there was a time when people came to America to actually become Americans, not just to see what they can get from us.

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Conservative business owners don't employ illegals? Ownership of big business is so far removed from actual operations that they don't even care who their managers hire, so long as plausible deniability is maintained.
Oh, some do, the majority do not, just like some progressive business owners do, but the majority do not.


Quote:
Sheesh. Stop with the knee-jerk bullshit.
When you stop with the faux bleeding heart bullshit.
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