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Old 11-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #51
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Regulation is fine, like power monopolies, but hand picking winners and looser isn't capitalism, the market is supposed to pick winners and loosers.
except not picking these losers would have made a lot more people into losers. Laissez-faire is an antiquated notion that does not make much sense in a global economy based on credit markets.

I don't think Mr. Smith knew what a credit default swap was when he advocated this position.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:13 PM   #52
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All the black friday deals are like, limit 5 per store. The number of people tricked into thinking they are going to get the $200 fully decked laptop makes it not worth the effort, since something like 200 people will show up all completely convinced THEY will be the ones to get the laptop. If you aren't the first like 30 or so in line you might as well leave.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:14 PM   #53
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except not picking these losers would have made a lot more people into losers. Laissez-faire is an antiquated notion that does not make much sense in a global economy based on credit markets.

I don't think Mr. Smith knew what a credit default swap was when he advocated this position.
Okay thats fine but its not capitalism then.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:16 PM   #54
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Fuck corporations infringing on our holidays. If 5am Friday isn't early enough, then fuck off.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:17 PM   #55
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I don't dislike black friday, I dislike the fact that retailers can advertise low prices, but then only have 2-3 of the item in stock at that price. That's bullshit. If you price something low, you better have the stock on hand, or give out rainchecks for it. This would eliminate the waiting in lines, the rush to the door, the sheer DANGER of the whole mess that retailers bring upon themselves.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:21 PM   #56
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Okay thats fine but its not capitalism then.
Sure it is...it's not just 100% Laissez-faire capitalism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capitalism

Why is it that we can regulate utilities (and I would imagine oil) and it's still capitalism but once we regulate banks it's no longer capitalism? The credit market is the lifeline of not only this country but the global economy.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:24 PM   #57
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I don't dislike black friday, I dislike the fact that retailers can advertise low prices, but then only have 2-3 of the item in stock at that price. That's bullshit. If you price something low, you better have the stock on hand, or give out rainchecks for it. This would eliminate the waiting in lines, the rush to the door, the sheer DANGER of the whole mess that retailers bring upon themselves.
Those door busters are sold at cost or (more commonly) at a loss. The whole of the door busters is to get people in the store to by other stuff. The margins are very thin on black friday...if the door busters were available at normal quantities or thru rain checks, the stores would suffer huge losses.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:28 PM   #58
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Sure it is...it's not just 100% Laissez-faire capitalism.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capitalism

Why is it that we can regulate utilities (and I would imagine oil) and it's still capitalism but once we regulate banks it's no longer capitalism? The credit market is the lifeline of not only this country but the global economy.
Maybe there is a "single-drop rule" when it comes to capitalism. The minute a single regulation is written, it is no longer capitalism and must be called something else.

I mean, OverVolt must have some pretty serious credentials, or he wouldn't be proposing a definition that flies in the face of what every economist on earth has been using for centuries.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:33 PM   #59
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Maybe there is a "single-drop rule" when it comes to capitalism. The minute a single regulation is written, it is no longer capitalism and must be called something else.

I mean, OverVolt must have some pretty serious credentials, or he wouldn't be proposing a definition that flies in the face of what every economist on earth has been using for centuries.
He probably has a job that wouldn't exist without regulation. Whose bread I eat his song I sing. I've had that impression about him for awhile. The economists totally saw 2008 coming in their models and whatnot. Their credentials have alot of credibility I suppose you could say.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:38 PM   #60
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Forcing people to work Thanksgiving night? I guess that's a reflection of where our priorities are as a culture. I think it is pretty disturbing and sad. But then again, since when does the market have even the slightest consideration for people's well being? It never has because it can't afford to.

Open the stores Friday morning and be done with it.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:41 PM   #61
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Forcing people to work Thanksgiving night? I guess that's a reflection of where our priorities are as a culture. I think it is pretty disturbing and sad. But then again, since when does the market have even the slightest consideration for people's well being? It never has because it can't afford to.

Open the stores Friday morning and be done with it.
Just curious, have you ever worked retail? Most retail employees chomp at the bit for the extra pay.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:43 PM   #62
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Those door busters are sold at cost or (more commonly) at a loss. The whole of the door busters is to get people in the store to by other stuff. The margins are very thin on black friday...if the door busters were available at normal quantities or thru rain checks, the stores would suffer huge losses.
Sold at cost.. Seems fair to me, since it is black friday. Just don't sell 2-3 of the item, make more of them available. The person is already in the store then, now sell them the blu ray player, glasses, stand, etc, and make your money on that. They do it with everything else. I always see multiple islands of movies, not just one or two. I want to get the SAMS club 65 inch TV, but no way in hell am I driving 50 minutes there the night before to stand in the cold, just to get a TV. Now, if they had hundreds of them for that price, I'd go in around noon and pick one up and probably shop a bit more while I'm there.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:48 PM   #63
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I only ever go to BF sales in the afternoon for small ticket items that will probably survive the morning rush. I picked up a really nice 4D mag lite for $10 one year at lowes and the shopping experience wasn't bad at all.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:50 PM   #64
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Sold at cost.. Seems fair to me, since it is black friday. Just don't sell 2-3 of the item, make more of them available. The person is already in the store then, now sell them the blu ray player, glasses, stand, etc, and make your money on that. They do it with everything else. I always see multiple islands of movies, not just one or two. I want to get the SAMS club 65 inch TV, but no way in hell am I driving 50 minutes there the night before to stand in the cold, just to get a TV. Now, if they had hundreds of them for that price, I'd go in around noon and pick one up and probably shop a bit more while I'm there.
Sold at cost meaning the cost that the store purchased them for...that doesn't take into consideration the costs associated with running to the store. Selling these items at cost = loss. Selling these items below costs (which is the case for the bigger ticket door busters) = bigger loss.

The loss of the games/dvds is much less. The store may take a 3 or 4 dollar loss on a blu ray movie on black friday, but may lose hundreds on a tv deal.

Again, the margins are razor thin. I've worked retail on two black fridays...if we are in the black, even by a few percentage points, it's considered a very successful day. It's quite common to end up in the red.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #65
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They lose money on the black friday deals. It just brings alot of people to the store. People pile their cart full of items that just had the price raised by 1-5%++ last month. I remember looking for a brita pitcher in August for $19.99 and it was $26.99 on black friday last year, stuff like that.

I remember seeing people shove their carts full of a TV I had actually bought for $268 and it was now $288, but it was on the end with a really big price as if it was on sale. It generates alot of hype in the actual store and people do crazy stuff. Actually go to a store on black friday before noon and see for yourself.

The price ramping for the holidays has already begun. I generally buy alot of gift cards if I don't already have gifts for everyone at this point with the explicit instructions to enjoy the good deals in January/February.

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Old 11-14-2012, 12:52 PM   #66
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Sold at cost meaning the cost that the store purchased them for...that doesn't take into consideration the costs associated with running to the store. Selling these items at cost = loss. Selling these items below costs (which is the case for the bigger ticket door busters) = bigger loss.

The loss of the games/dvds is much less. The store may take a 3 or 4 dollar loss on a blu ray movie on black friday, but may lose hundreds on a tv deal.

Again, the margins are razor thin. I've worked retail on two black fridays...if we are in the black, even by a few percentage points, it's considered a very successful day. It's quite common to end up in the red.
Then why do it at all?

What store (if you don't mind) are you talking about?
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:54 PM   #67
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Then why do it at all?

What store (if you don't mind) are you talking about?
They don't do it w/ the intent of ending up in the red, sometimes it just ends up that way if they can't sell the high margin accessories w/ the TV, PS3, Xbox, etc.

Also, even if the margins end up in the red, it's a huge revenue boost for the quarter.

It was best buy.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:56 PM   #68
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They don't do it w/ the intent of ending up in the red, sometimes it just ends up that way if they can't sell the high margin accessories w/ the TV, PS3, Xbox, etc.

Also, even if the margins end up in the red, it's a huge revenue boost for the quarter.
That makes sense.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:57 PM   #69
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That makes sense.
BBY is doing well I hear. With their high margin accessories and warranties.

Last time I was in the store there were more employees than customers, which I think means things are going pretty well if they can afford that!

Anyway sarcasm aside, people complaining on black friday about not getting the deal and taking up tons of employees time and the mass-returns and broken/stampeded merchandise also take their toll on the bottom line.
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Old 11-14-2012, 12:59 PM   #70
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Keep the shopping online.

Save money while saving time, energy, and sanity!
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:08 PM   #71
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Yea good idea, online did have the best real deals. Last black friday people were like scooping up shit off the shelf that wasn't even on sale and shoving it into their cart. BBY didn't have such hype though, the employees were actually tamping down the hype by talking way too much to the customers. I visited several stores just to observe, I was bored.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:15 PM   #72
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I really wish Black Thursday/Friday was only held in areas with freezing rain, marauding street gangs and random tiger attacks. Make it as inconvenient, unpleasant and dangerous as possible so that people might finally evolve enough common sense to stop wasting 10 hours outside a store to hopefully get a chance to save $20 on a TV.
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Old 11-14-2012, 01:59 PM   #73
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most larger companies pay a lot more to employees to work on holidays...I know when I was working retail, most of the employees were happy to get scheduled on a holiday and there was always someone waiting to take a shift if another employee didn't want it.
From what I have seen holiday pay is coming down significantly and often being done away with. Some still increase earned time off for working holidays but its not nearly the boon it was 8 years ago
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:25 PM   #74
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He probably has a job that wouldn't exist without regulation. Whose bread I eat his song I sing. I've had that impression about him for awhile. The economists totally saw 2008 coming in their models and whatnot. Their credentials have alot of credibility I suppose you could say.
Saying that overregulation/misregulation is a problem and can lead to inefficiencies and misallocations of capital is different than saying that having regulations makes something not be capitalism anymore.

Private ownership of resources? Check! Selling items for a profit motive? Check! Boom, capitalism.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:26 PM   #75
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Forcing people to work Thanksgiving night? I guess that's a reflection of where our priorities are as a culture. I think it is pretty disturbing and sad. But then again, since when does the market have even the slightest consideration for people's well being? It never has because it can't afford to.

Open the stores Friday morning and be done with it.
its not only retail, im an engineer and i have been working on holidays before, the manufacturing plants all run on major holidays, all of them including the 4th of july, operators love working on holidays and bid for then because its 2.5x normal pay
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