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Old 11-13-2012, 10:06 AM   #51
unokitty
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Originally Posted by fuzzybabybunny View Post
You know, I used to be so jaded about our government. I saw it as slow and ineffective and completely controlled by those with too much money. I could have cared less if I moved somewhere else permanently.

Being in China has changed that. It has caused me to look back at our founding principles.

Our Bill of Rights.
Our Declaration of Independence.
Our Constitution.
The poem on the Statue of Liberty and what the statue herself represents.
Our system of checks and balances and rule of law.

We sure as hell aren't perfect. ...
Interesting, isn't it, the way your perspective changes after you've lived outside the US...

Seems to support that school of thought that you can't really know your own country until you've lived in a different one, doesn't it?

Anyway, thanks for posting.

Best of luck,
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:14 AM   #52
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I have been to several countries in Asia, both developed (Japan, S. Korea, Singapore, etc.) and developing (Indonesia, Vietnam, etc.) so I do have similar experience with OP.

Stolen stuffs - no violent crimes but petty thieves are common at huge public places such as train stations, festivals. Have to watch your pocket and bags at all time. And try not to dress as a clueless tourist with stuffs all over you.

Conned by stores/owners - have to ask your friends to where to go. Just walk into a store = please con me.

Fresh air - totally agree. I had to wear a mask/bandana to walk around or I would cough up from the dirty air.

Noise - same as fresh air. Goodness so many noise from cars/motorbikes/construction/etc.

Restroom - you have to use the ones in the Mall or high end shopping places or do your duty at home.

Internet - can be hit or miss and no free roaming as in the US when you are in Socialist/Communist countries.

Pirate stuffs/copying things - there is no such things as IP in developing countries. Copied stuffs are on sale in full display publicly.

And don't let me start with the shoving and cut in line stuff.

Another thing that the OP haven't mention. The freaking traffic is soooooo slow compare with the US. All kind of modes, from bus, car, motorbike, train, air, everything is much slower speed than Western countries.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:23 AM   #53
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What's a Chinese equivalent to Siberia?

Pretty much "China"
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:26 AM   #54
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Are you being forced to live there? Move somewhere else?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:29 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by unokitty View Post
Interesting, isn't it, the way your perspective changes after you've lived outside the US...

Seems to support that school of thought that you can't really know your own country until you've lived in a different one, doesn't it?

Anyway, thanks for posting.

Best of luck,
Uno
Well, sorta. I still think out government is slow, ineffective in some areas (especially big business and special interests), and controlled by too many people with money (again special interests).

But when I reflect back on the original principles, I feel that these principles *must* be fought for. We simply cannot let these principles die. They're the best that we've got and it transcends all of us. These principles are worth dying for.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:44 AM   #56
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Well, sorta. I still think out government is slow, ineffective in some areas (especially big business and special interests), and controlled by too many people with money (again special interests).

But when I reflect back on the original principles, I feel that these principles *must* be fought for. We simply cannot let these principles die. They're the best that we've got and it transcends all of us. These principles are worth dying for.
Agreed, but we're voting them all away more and more each election cycle...
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:53 AM   #57
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China is shit because too many people do what they want and have no morals of any kind thanks to the government not giving a shit about anything except for public image. If I had a company I would never do business in China because there's no respect for intellectual property rights and the government can shut you down whenever they want.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:05 AM   #58
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Do you speak any Mandarin? They can probably spot a westernized person from a mile away, but not speaking the language just makes it worse.

From what I've learned, it's Hong Kong for living, mainland China for visiting.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:09 AM   #59
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Agreed, but we're voting them all away more and more each election cycle...
lolno.

We're replacing them with other ones.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:11 AM   #60
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I'm working on getting a photo processor in China. I've tried many times to hire photo processing in the States but the time is just horrendous - they always end up working at midnight to deliver our photos on schedule so they burn out and hate their job. China's time zone is much more conducive to my business (9PM in Cali is noon in Beijing, for example). That's really about it. The price isn't really a factor as much.

Actually, it is, but in a different way. There are a lot of good, decent people here. People just struggling to get by, people who I've met who I think will do the future good. A dollar goes a much longer way here than in the US. As far as bang for the buck in improving a person's life goes, China's got the US beat. $200 a week will absolutely flip someone's life around here. I'd like to give them the opportunity. Being an employer and having the capacity to affect other's people's lives through opportunity is not something I take lightly.

Tomorrow I will continue training the photo processor. My other photo processor has already stepped down.
Sounds cool, though are you sure you don't want to be in the same city as your employee? If

BTW, why are you drinking coffee when you are currently in THE tea capital of the world? Drink some Big Red Robe for cheap, my friend
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:25 AM   #61
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Do you speak any Mandarin? They can probably spot a westernized person from a mile away, but not speaking the language just makes it worse.

From what I've learned, it's Hong Kong for living, mainland China for visiting.
Usually people get used to it, even westerners.

I've just never seen anyone other than the OP spew so much hate towards China in one thread.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:27 AM   #62
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Pics or gtfo. Nao!
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:32 AM   #63
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Sounds cool, though are you sure you don't want to be in the same city as your employee? If

BTW, why are you drinking coffee when you are currently in THE tea capital of the world? Drink some Big Red Robe for cheap, my friend
I can't be in the same city as my employees anyway. We're all pretty spread apart. And I want to travel a lot so the opportunities are limited.

I'll check out some Big Red Robe. My aunt gave me a tin of some really high quality loose leaf green and I've been drinking that all day. But sometimes you just want some coffee. Only coffee has that oomph.

Quote:
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Do you speak any Mandarin? They can probably spot a westernized person from a mile away, but not speaking the language just makes it worse.

From what I've learned, it's Hong Kong for living, mainland China for visiting.
I speak a bit of Mandarin. I can pass myself off as a local until they get into more complicated words, and then I have to explain to them that I'm not a local. I actually need to visit Hong Kong for at least a day to renew my Chinese visa. I only have 60 days on the visa, but if I pop into Hong Kong for at least a day and return I get another 60 days.

Quote:
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China is shit because too many people do what they want and have no morals of any kind thanks to the government not giving a shit about anything except for public image. If I had a company I would never do business in China because there's no respect for intellectual property rights and the government can shut you down whenever they want.
Luckily the photo processing is really informal. Nothing to shut down really, and I trust the guy working with me.

My guy believes that part of the reason that people don't have morals is that there is no religion in China. China is a very atheist state. Has been for many many many years. I'm not big on religion at all but I have to admit that some of the values it teaches tends to keep people in line. The Chinese simply don't have that foundation. Put cheap filler and toxic things in baby formula to save a few bucks? No problem. Purchase the authentic shells of cell phones but swap the internals with shit and then sell them as authentic? No problem. He says the Chinese people are incredibly short sighted in this regard and don't have a religious foundation with rules to govern themselves by.

Weird how many people in the US have a problem with religion, while China's problem is *not* having religion.

You can say it's a problem of not having the right values and that it isn't a problem of religion, but how do you teach someone to do the right thing just because? It's much easier to convince people to do ABC because there's a supreme being watching over you than can damn your soul.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:37 AM   #64
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Post some pics when you can.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:41 AM   #65
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OP,

Thanks so much for sharing your personal insight. As badly as we have F'ed up this country I feel much better about things than I did before reading your thread. I hate no one but believe that the Chinese (Government) is taking us all for a ride. What you've shared here just supports that.

If I could stop buying products made in China today ... I would in a heartbeat.

Hope that you are able to get back into the country from HK once the authorities read this ...
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:50 AM   #66
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if you posted that from a net connection in china it may be the last thing you ever post, too. Be careful, our rules do not apply there.
rip fbb
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:03 PM   #67
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OP should head further south or west (in China). Or if you really like nature, head to Japan.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:09 PM   #68
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Ummm, if China ever decides to call in all the debt they hold on the U.S., you may be on the right side of that equations, mothballs and all.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:15 PM   #69
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You should known that from living in the the Bay Area with all of the FOBs.
This.

I'm not chinese, but they sure have a bad rep in the bay area imo

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Old 11-13-2012, 12:17 PM   #70
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Ummm, if China ever decides to call in all the debt they hold on the U.S., you may be on the right side of that equations, mothballs and all.
The debt can not be called to my kmowlege

They can refuse to renew.

Big difference in timing
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 PM   #71
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There's a lot to enjoy there. I agree that the government and anything it touches can suck my left ball but you really need to try to enjoy the amazing things they have there. I had a blast.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:23 PM   #72
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Yeah, the chinese buy fixed bonds that are 'called' on a specific date. They could stop buying more bonds, or they could sell the bonds they have to someone else (I think), but they can't just say "Uncle Sam, give me cash money."
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #73
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My guy believes that part of the reason that people don't have morals is that there is no religion in China. China is a very atheist state. Has been for many many many years. I'm not big on religion at all but I have to admit that some of the values it teaches tends to keep people in line. The Chinese simply don't have that foundation. Put cheap filler and toxic things in baby formula to save a few bucks? No problem. Purchase the authentic shells of cell phones but swap the internals with shit and then sell them as authentic? No problem. He says the Chinese people are incredibly short sighted in this regard and don't have a religious foundation with rules to govern themselves by.

Weird how many people in the US have a problem with religion, while China's problem is *not* having religion.

You can say it's a problem of not having the right values and that it isn't a problem of religion, but how do you teach someone to do the right thing just because? It's much easier to convince people to do ABC because there's a supreme being watching over you than can damn your soul.
I don't necessarily agree. China had thousands of years of rich heritage of culture based on confusianism, taoism and filial piety. This was the norm for hundreds of years until the cultural revolution when the "great leader" Mao decided to burn books, destroy culture and to bury the intellectuals alive and to destroy all shreds of common decency in favor of absolute power.

All "culture" in China is the great result of the "great leap backwards" and it shows in the people's mentality. In my eyes, Taiwan is a much better representation of Chinese culture.
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:35 PM   #74
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They have already begun censoring you with asterisks**
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:53 PM   #75
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Nice knowing you OP.
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