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Old 11-12-2012, 01:15 PM   #576
Xonim
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Also I would recommend making one of the healers go dps as main spec and heals OS.
Not sure why, but this never crossed my mind. I'll bring it up.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:29 PM   #577
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Not sure why, but this never crossed my mind. I'll bring it up.
yes, except for stone guards. MV is 2 healed for us (sure Feng can be 3 healed, but this is just much faster.)

And first 3 fights in HoF have "soft enrages" late in the fight that means, the longer the fight lasts the harder it is to win. So 2 healing is recommended if not required.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:01 PM   #578
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@Xonim

We finally got him down last night and here's a few tips.

I assume you're pre-potting, if not this fight is just about as good as it gets for it. Evocate->pre-pot->pre cast pyro->pull, use DBM timers for the pull. I have a simple macro for it /dbm pull 10 /cast evocate. Once you get a heating up proc: Inferno blast->alter time (after pyro proc comes up)->Pyro->cancel alter time->Pyro->PoM+Pyro->combustion. I peaked around 140-180K dps on the pull depending on what all crit in that combo.

Evocate at every big add exlposion so the heal hits after, it's a little early for the timer but barely. Evocate after the the 2nd orb, after the floor drops, and after you get back in position while the small adds are spawning.

Once I learned exactly when to evocate the orbs became much easier (still had the tank on mine). You can basically spam fireball with no procs and kill 2, pyro buff has a long timer so carry one into the 3rd. 4th pom-pyro.

Make sure you learn the "sweet spot" with the buff from the inner ring. You can stand on the very outside edge and jump, for a split second while jumping you get out of the bubble and clear stacks. That means you can simple jump+cast an instant every time you get a heating up proc/pyro proc or when you refresh lvb. With temporal shield obviously you can jump to reset you stack before the explosion then evocate.

Our dps ended up looking like this:
warrior: 111K
mage: 110K
spriest: 108K
afflock: 107K
rogue: 100K
hunter: 95K

Fight was 8:45, so that should give you an idea about your groups dps. Our group was about 10% less than that going into the last phase (yes it's a huge damage boost but it's only for ~30% of his health).

Every fight is basically 2 heals so yeah (still recommend 3 for stone guard, it's just easier), your 3rd healer should be main spec dps off spec heals.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:19 PM   #579
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Make sure you POM before alter time. When you hit alter time you fire off 2 pyro's (sometimes 3 if the crits line up right), then hit alter again and fire off another 2 (or 3). Then combust.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:34 PM   #580
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I assume you're pre-potting, if not this fight is just about as good as it gets for it. Evocate->pre-pot->pre cast pyro->pull, use DBM timers for the pull. I have a simple macro for it /dbm pull 10 /cast evocate. Once you get a heating up proc: Inferno blast->alter time (after pyro proc comes up)->Pyro->cancel alter time->Pyro->PoM+Pyro->combustion. I peaked around 140-180K dps on the pull depending on what all crit in that combo.
We have been prepotting. I'm not specced into evocate, I have Rune of Power. I've found I'm able to sustain better dps with it, even on fights light this or spirit kings where there's movement (only tried playing with it over a couple weeks of LFR, so....take that for what it's worth -- EJ thinks it's higher too if you can manage it). I've been dropping a rune on the very edge as you described, works nicely. I may try evocate this week if we have trouble again.

I really need to play around with alter time a little bit, I don't think I've cast it once in raid. Not specced into PoM either, have scorch for movement phases. May switch for next raid night.

EDIT: I'm assuming glyph of combustion would be a good thing with the PoM + 4x pyros with alter time? I currently am running with Fire Blast, Evocation, and Armors. Could probably drop armors for combustion (how I was before), but not being glyphed for it is beneficial on multi-target fights, though that's mostly trash instead of bosses.

Quote:
Evocate at every big add exlposion so the heal hits after, it's a little early for the timer but barely. Evocate after the the 2nd orb, after the floor drops, and after you get back in position while the small adds are spawning.
Again, not specced into evocate, but I do have temporal shield so I've been using that on the explosions so I get healed back for the full 200k within a few seconds. If I die during those couple seconds, something else went wrong.

EDIT 2: Overall, very helpful post. Thanks for that =)

Last edited by Xonim; 11-12-2012 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:42 PM   #581
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alter time is absolutely essential to building a large combustion. POM or scorch is a matter of choice, but if you do choose POM you are much more likely to (coupled with alter time) build a huge combustion. building large combustions will put you decidedly ahead of the rest of your raid DPS-wise...and then you can stroke your e-peen as top dps
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:23 PM   #582
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Make sure you POM before alter time. When you hit alter time you fire off 2 pyro's (sometimes 3 if the crits line up right), then hit alter again and fire off another 2 (or 3). Then combust.
I just build a pyro naturally after the first crit->inferno blast, then alter time with the pyro buff. That reduces the number of buttons taken up since I just have a pom-pyro macro instead of that+pom on my bars.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:43 PM   #583
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We have been prepotting. I'm not specced into evocate, I have Rune of Power. I've found I'm able to sustain better dps with it, even on fights light this or spirit kings where there's movement (only tried playing with it over a couple weeks of LFR, so....take that for what it's worth -- EJ thinks it's higher too if you can manage it). I've been dropping a rune on the very edge as you described, works nicely. I may try evocate this week if we have trouble again.
Not sure how they think run is more dps, let's assume you have perfect up time on each. I'll be generous and say you -never- have to recast rune. That's a flat 15% spell power buff. Evocation is 34 seconds of up-time every 40 seconds (without factoring in haste), so 85% up-time on a 25% spell power. That's 21.25% with invocation vs 15% with rune.

I had 78.4% up-time on that fight which is 19.6% spell power averaged which still beats 100% up-time on rune.

Quote:
I really need to play around with alter time a little bit, I don't think I've cast it once in raid. Not specced into PoM either, have scorch for movement phases. May switch for next raid night.
You're running rune which requires no movement but then spec scorch for movement.

Now that I have played with PoM I'm sticking with it unless we have heavy movement like chains on the first fight. Scorch is a huge dps loss, I'm used to playing arcane from last xpack so I'm used to picking my spot to turret and blink if I need to move.

Quote:
EDIT: I'm assuming glyph of combustion would be a good thing with the PoM + 4x pyros with alter time? I currently am running with Fire Blast, Evocation, and Armors. Could probably drop armors for combustion (how I was before), but not being glyphed for it is beneficial on multi-target fights, though that's mostly trash instead of bosses.
I use fire blast, evo and poly. The third is really just a matter of choice. I'm not sure how the timing for combustion would work but it might be good for this fight. Considering you can build a huge on demand ignite with the pom/alter time stuff it might be good. If you can work out the timing to have combustion up for the last phase it's probably worth playing with. Combustion at ~0:15, 1:45, 3:15 (2nd alter time/pom), 4:45, 6:15, 7:45 (3rd alter time/pom, should be last phase). Might have to try that next week...

Quote:
EDIT 2: Overall, very helpful post. Thanks for that =)
Any time.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:24 AM   #584
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I may try evocate this week if we have trouble again.

Play how you know best to play. If you have trouble downing him, I doubt it will be the dps.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:20 AM   #585
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Not sure how they think run is more dps, let's assume you have perfect up time on each. I'll be generous and say you -never- have to recast rune. That's a flat 15% spell power buff. Evocation is 34 seconds of up-time every 40 seconds (without factoring in haste), so 85% up-time on a 25% spell power. That's 21.25% with invocation vs 15% with rune.

I had 78.4% up-time on that fight which is 19.6% spell power averaged which still beats 100% up-time on rune.
TLDR: Theorycrafting attempt, with oversimplified dps "rotation" because I'm at work with limited access to WoW things. At 100k per fireball over 3 minutes, Rune wins by 470k damage. At 150k per fireball over 3 minutes, it's 716k. Both of those numbers are just over 5% dps gain in favor of rune.

Long version:
It'd be a little more complicated than that, and there's no point in recasting evocate (per EJ mage thread) until you can't cast another spell with the buff up. By doing so before it's gone, you're losing dps since you're not casting/gaining anything (except dots already on target) while you're channeling evoc. Additionally, you're losing ~2 fireballs = ~3GCD's per cycle (cast of each) by using evoc instead of rune.

Using those numbers and assuming both spells are 100% uptime (more likely with Rune for me because it blinks at me) means you'd have 25% spellpower for 40 out of 46 seconds = 25% * .8696 = 21.74% increase, versus rune with 60/61.5 * 15% = 14.63% increase.

We'll look over 3 minutes (next common recast), assume both spells are up/cast at the start of the period, and are cast at the very end of the period so at 3 min you're basically restarting. I'm at work, so I'm going to very much simplify this and assume you only cast fireball @ 2 sec per cast and fireball averages 100k/hit. Also going to assume for the sake of easiness that evoc is every 45 sec and rune is every min even though its :46 / 1:015. That math looks like this:

No buff: 180 seconds fireball casting = 90 fireballs @ 100k per = 9.0m damage. @ 150k per = 13.5m damage.

Invoc: 180 seconds - 24 sec for 4 evocs (:45, 1:30, 2:15, 3:00) = 156 seconds = 78 fireballs @ 100k per = 7.8m damage * 1.2174 = 9.4957damage. At 150k per, this becomes 11.7m damage * 1.2174 = 14.2436m damage.

Rune: 180 seconds - 4.5 sec total rune cast (1:00, 2:00, 3:00) = 175.5 seconds = ~87 fireballs @ 100k per = 8.7m damage * 1.1463 = 9.9728m damage. At 150k per, this becomes 13.05m damage * 1.14625 = 14.96m damage.

Again, oversimplification because obviously we don't cast only fireball, but I would assume other spells should carry similar results, so using the extra time for fireballs or GCDs (pyro, combust, etc) seems to carry more benefit than the extra damage buff.

Quote:
You're running rune which requires no movement but then spec scorch for movement.
Touche.

Quote:
Now that I have played with PoM I'm sticking with it unless we have heavy movement like chains on the first fight. Scorch is a huge dps loss, I'm used to playing arcane from last xpack so I'm used to picking my spot to turret and blink if I need to move.
I'll spec into it tonight and see what I can do with combustion with PoM and combustion without. I use scorch on Elegon when I'm jumping to clear stacks, but I very well could just use inferno blast or pyro or something when doing it. I never cast it otherwise, now that I'm thinking about it, seems like a waste except for maybe the dogs w/ chains and spirit kings. Good thing tome of the clear mind is only 45s.

Quote:
I'm not sure how the timing for combustion would work but it might be good for this fight. Considering you can build a huge on demand ignite with the pom/alter time stuff it might be good. If you can work out the timing to have combustion up for the last phase it's probably worth playing with. Combustion at ~0:15, 1:45, 3:15 (2nd alter time/pom), 4:45, 6:15, 7:45 (3rd alter time/pom, should be last phase). Might have to try that next week...
PoM is a 1.5min CD, isn't it? You could get the PoM at every interval as well. Still wouldn't have alter time until every 3rd, but PoM would be there at least so you could combust 3 stacks w/ PoM instead of 2 without.

Last edited by Xonim; 11-13-2012 at 12:37 PM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:28 PM   #586
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Hit 90 on saturday night and was able to tank a LFR yesterday. Had no clue how to tank the bosses and the other guy told me whats up. We one shot everything and I got bracers off the second dude.
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:50 PM   #587
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Hit 90 on saturday night and was able to tank a LFR yesterday** Had no clue how to tank the bosses and the other guy told me whats up** We one shot everything and I got bracers off the second dude**
Not surprised** You can ignore almost all mechanics in lfr and win**
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:30 PM   #588
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Hit 90 on saturday night and was able to tank a LFR yesterday** Had no clue how to tank the bosses and the other guy told me whats up** We one shot everything and I got bracers off the second dude**
Grats on beating the game**
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:39 PM   #589
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Grats on beating the game**
Here we go again...

EDIT: Was about to be upset with the DMF trinket nerfs that were on MMO champion. Thank goodness it was only data mining gone wrong -- the lower values were for challenge mode scaling. I'd be quite unhappy if I dropped 25kish only to have the item nerfed into oblivion....

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Old 11-13-2012, 04:32 PM   #590
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damn you extended-and-re-extended maintenance. i want to get on and check galleon so i can go back to my life
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:37 PM   #591
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Personally, I don't mind the down time.

I mostly pvp these days (hardcore raiding was my thing in the past, no longer) so I believe they are taking the realms down to track down and take action against players who abused the arena MMR exploit.

I hope they're all banned.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:44 PM   #592
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damn you extended-and-re-extended maintenance. i want to get on and check galleon so i can go back to my life
My server appears to be up, I can see my auctions on my phone.

Now if only I was at home
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:55 PM   #593
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I went to take a piss and the servers came up and I missed galleon. fuckin unreal
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:17 PM   #594
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I went to take a piss and the servers came up and I missed galleon. fuckin unreal
How often does he spawn? Ive only seen him once and was apart of the kill. I believe there was 3 full 40man group killing him. Very nice of the first group to share the tag with the rest of us.
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Old 11-13-2012, 06:41 PM   #595
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he spawns immediately when the servers go up after reset, an incredibly stupid design choice, since most people are at work and you are forced to watch the screen for the exact moment when your server goes up if you want a chance at him. he will then spawn randomly once more during the week, usually between 3-4 days after his first spawn. something like that. incredibly stupid design. on illidan, when he spawns the server crashes every time except for the times when its right after server reset, because not many people are online at that time.
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Old 11-14-2012, 08:16 AM   #596
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People are getting annoying how much they want to kill gal. He isn't that big of a deal...
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:26 AM   #597
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People are getting annoying how much they want to kill gal. He isn't that big of a deal...
Just a free/easy shot at ilvl 496 loot, that's all. I mean, don't get me wrong, I'd love to get that hat off him -- my wife got it, but she doesn't raid -- because mine is only ilvl 463. Only killed him once about a month ago. I'd like to do it again.

Got a little time to play with Alter Time last night. Specced into PoM, didn't get a chance to play with evocate/rune so I stayed rune based on my math a few posts ago, running with nether tempest because it's higher single target than living bomb. Glyphed Fire Blast, Evocation, and Combustion.

Best rotation for AT seems to be:
Heating up --> Inferno Blast --> PoM --> Alter Time --> Pyro --> Pyro --> Cancel Alter Time --> Pyro --> Pyro --> Combust.

Without the combustion glyph, using the above I was getting intial hits for ~56k, crits for ~115k. Ticks were ~17k with crits ~37k. Just to check, I cast a single pyro and combusted, ticks were 6k and crits 13k.

So the AT combo isn't 4x that. I'm wondering how it calculates, seems like i'm getting 3/4, even though there are 4 pyros cast. It's possible it's not linear. Can one of you other mages test it?

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Old 11-15-2012, 12:19 AM   #598
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Well I did HOF Raid Finder yesterday and I got screwed out of loot on the 2nd boss. Got the mace from the last boss but that was about it. Does blizz QA anything before releasing it?
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Old 11-15-2012, 07:55 AM   #599
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Well I did HOF Raid Finder yesterday and I got screwed out of loot on the 2nd boss. Got the mace from the last boss but that was about it. Does blizz QA anything before releasing it?
How did you get screwed out of loot on a boss?

And what are you refering to on QA?
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Old 11-15-2012, 09:39 AM   #600
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Thinking we may see 5.1 on the 4th, definitely by the 11th unless something comes up.
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