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Old 11-12-2012, 12:26 PM   #26
mcveigh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bignateyk View Post
Noone is blaming them for making an effort. Once they tried several times they should have just let it go.
still if it had gone down like that his family could sue.

the police were going to get blamed no matter what
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:29 PM   #27
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still if it had gone down like that his family could sue.

the police were going to get blamed no matter what
They need their duties refined to give more leeway for personal liberty of people then.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:30 PM   #28
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still if it had gone down like that his family could sue.

the police were going to get blamed no matter what
My husband jumped in fire, police didn't do nothing, stood there and watched... BAM, five million lawsuit, can you please find me an example of that?
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:51 PM   #29
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It *sounds* like the neighbors kitchen was on fire, and this man used his hose from his property to soak the fence inbetween their homes. Alot of people here seem to be assuming he was right up in the fire; case of simply not reading the article?

Cops are at fault here. You try to take the hose away, and then try to pull the man away, and then use a tazer? Why not arrest him, even if you drop the charges later?

The guy was frantic apparently, but you try other options before using any kind of force like that. Imagine cops spraying tazer rounds at an out of control concert, instead of arresting people.
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:55 PM   #30
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Noone is blaming them for making an effort. Once they tried several times they should have just let it go.
There's is no let it go for cops or firemen, if they let it go and he got injured or died, the cops or firefighters would have been sued. I'm all for letting the guy do his own thing as that's his choice but lawyers have turned this country into a sue for everything country.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:02 PM   #31
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cops where wrong. he was trying to keep the fire from spreading to his property. Damn right i would be doing the same thing.

I suspect the guy is going to get a payday and the cops will eventually (now that it is national news) apologize and say they need to "retrain"
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:04 PM   #32
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There's is no let it go for cops or firemen, if they let it go and he got injured or died, the cops or firefighters would have been sued. I'm all for letting the guy do his own thing as that's his choice but lawyers have turned this country into a sue for everything country.
Seriously, if they actually "let it go" that would make them look even worse, because if the original reason for trying to stop him hasn't changed, what's the rationale for "letting it go"?
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:05 PM   #33
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Since when is it illegal to try saving your own property from a fire, on your property? It's not like he was causing damage to other property in the process.

I sure as hell could not just stand there and watch my house burn down if I knew I could do something to at least try to stop it. From the sound of it he was probably not that close to the real fire anyway.

And if this is really a liability issue then there definitely needs to be some form of zero liability policy put in place for situations like this.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:52 PM   #34
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still if it had gone down like that his family could sue.

the police were going to get blamed no matter what
this.

if you don't believe me, In 1977 Milo Stephens Jr. tried to commit suicide by jumping in front of a subway train, failed, sued the transit authority for personal injury and won a $650,000 settlement.

also if you don't have any training in firefighting just leave it the fuck alone, you have no idea what you're doing.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:58 PM   #35
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also if you don't have any training in firefighting just leave it the fuck alone, you have no idea what you're doing.
bullshit.

If you have no training in firefighting you probably should not run into a burning skyscraper. Protecting your own home while having clear escape routes is something that any sensible person SHOULD do.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:19 PM   #36
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That only matters for when a grease fire is contained inside a pot or something.

Water will sink to the bottom and force the grease to the top, overflowing it and spreading the flame grease out of the pot and all over the place.
It's not quite that simple or gentle, watch -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmjSUlKoMXE

Explaination: You were correct in that the water will sink to the bottom, however in a pan it won't then just cause the grease to overflow. The pan will be hot (well in excess of 100 C or 212 F if the pan has spontaneously ignited), so the water will instantly vaporize, forming steam and which then rapidly rises, pulling the oil up into the air with it, which dramatically increases the boiling oils surface area. The oil then vaporizes and ignites creating a nice big fireball.

Same problem can happen if any surface is hot enough. Just metals are good at conducting the heat of the flames.

Localized boiling can also rapidly spread the flames, even before the water has time to hit the surface.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:57 PM   #37
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bullshit.

If you have no training in firefighting you probably should not run into a burning skyscraper. Protecting your own home while having clear escape routes is something that any sensible person SHOULD do.
clear escape routes are not guaranteed to remain clear.

the smoke and heat will disorientate you.

as little as 2-3 breaths of smoke from a house fire can render you unconscious.

fire extinguisher are very ineffective in the hands of untrained people.

water from a standard gardenhose is surprisingly ineffective at putting out decent sized fires, can you make the split second decision in the heat of the moment which tool and technique is appropriate for putting out a particular fire?

I could keep going on with facts, I've had actual training in firefighting in the danish army, but instead I'll just leave you with this question:

hundreds of people die each year trying to combat fires in their homes, do you feel like adding to the statistic?
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:15 PM   #38
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clear escape routes are not guaranteed to remain clear.

the smoke and heat will disorientate you.

as little as 2-3 breaths of smoke from a house fire can render you unconscious.

fire extinguisher are very ineffective in the hands of untrained people.

water from a standard gardenhose is surprisingly ineffective at putting out decent sized fires, can you make the split second decision in the heat of the moment which tool and technique is appropriate for putting out a particular fire?

I could keep going on with facts, I've had actual training in firefighting in the danish army, but instead I'll just leave you with this question:

hundreds of people die each year trying to combat fires in their homes, do you feel like adding to the statistic?
Plus, while he was standing outside a meteorite could have fallen out of the sky, hit him in the head and killed him.
It's a good thing the cops put him in jail where a meteorite couldn't get him.
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:37 PM   #39
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this.

if you don't believe me, In 1977 Milo Stephens Jr. tried to commit suicide by jumping in front of a subway train, failed, sued the transit authority for personal injury and won a $650,000 settlement.

also if you don't have any training in firefighting just leave it the fuck alone, you have no idea what you're doing.
well seems since the firefighters were nowhere in sight he was doing more then them eh ?
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:01 PM   #40
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It was stated in the article that he was treated for smoke inhalation so apparently he was close enough that he was breathing in the smoke. Probably not enough to kill him but depending on how long the firefighters take to get there it could be significant enough to cause respiratory damage.

Sounds like a damn if you do, damn if you don't situation for the cops.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:11 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broheim View Post
clear escape routes are not guaranteed to remain clear.

the smoke and heat will disorientate you.

as little as 2-3 breaths of smoke from a house fire can render you unconscious.

fire extinguisher are very ineffective in the hands of untrained people.

water from a standard gardenhose is surprisingly ineffective at putting out decent sized fires, can you make the split second decision in the heat of the moment which tool and technique is appropriate for putting out a particular fire?

I could keep going on with facts, I've had actual training in firefighting in the danish army, but instead I'll just leave you with this question:

hundreds of people die each year trying to combat fires in their homes, do you feel like adding to the statistic?
Even if untrained it's better to at least try then to sit there and watch it burn. Especially if the fire is still in a state where it's not yet out of control.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:18 PM   #42
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Noone is blaming them for making an effort. Once they tried several times they should have just let it go.
This. Seriously. This.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #43
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...I've had actual training in firefighting in the danish army...
Where I'm from we learned how to put out a fire with pee.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:48 PM   #44
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Taser not needed.



Or just walk up to the sillcock and slice the hose in half.

Last edited by twinrider1; 11-12-2012 at 06:54 PM.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:59 PM   #45
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A man has the right to protect his property at risk to his own life.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:00 PM   #46
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also if you don't have any training in firefighting just leave it the fuck alone, you have no idea what you're doing.
I hear ya. Firefighting's so complicated, our departments require a masters just to get in the door. If you actually want to fight fires, it's a PhD or GTFO.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:40 PM   #47
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I hear ya. Firefighting's so complicated, our departments require a masters just to get in the door. If you actually want to fight fires, it's a PhD or GTFO.
Umm, what exact experience/training do you have with firefighting and the dangers associated with it?

The basic concept of putting fires out is simple, but as with everything else "The devil is in the details."

I will go with one basic tenet of all emergency services, life above property. If he was exposing himself to sufficient smoke to require treatment, he was in a position of risking LIFE for PROPERTY. But he was not just risking his life. He was also risking MY LIFE, or MY BROTHER'S/SISTER'S life.

Don't get it?

If he had been incapacitated by the smoke, what next? Oh yeah, the FIREFIGHTERS would have had to go in and rescue him.

When all along, he had the means to be in a position of safety.

Think he had the exits available if he became endangered, and that's not an issue? I'm sure he is intimately familiar with say the symptoms of cyanide poisoning, and when he needed to remove himself from that environment prior to incapacitation.

And if I need to explain why cyanide symptoms would be an issue....
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:53 PM   #48
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Umm, what exact experience/training do you have with firefighting and the dangers associated with it?

The basic concept of putting fires out is simple, but as with everything else "The devil is in the details."

I will go with one basic tenet of all emergency services, life above property. If he was exposing himself to sufficient smoke to require treatment, he was in a position of risking LIFE for PROPERTY. But he was not just risking his life. He was also risking MY LIFE, or MY BROTHER'S/SISTER'S life.

Don't get it?

If he had been incapacitated by the smoke, what next? Oh yeah, the FIREFIGHTERS would have had to go in and rescue him.

When all along, he had the means to be in a position of safety.

Think he had the exits available if he became endangered, and that's not an issue? I'm sure he is intimately familiar with say the symptoms of cyanide poisoning, and when he needed to remove himself from that environment prior to incapacitation.

And if I need to explain why cyanide symptoms would be an issue....
He was outside...

Ya know, sometimes the government needs to just fuck off, and let people live their lives as they see fit. Life's dangerous, and it isn't the government's job o protect us from ourselves.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:01 PM   #49
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He was outside...

Ya know, sometimes the government needs to just fuck off, and let people live their lives as they see fit. Life's dangerous, and it isn't the government's job o protect us from ourselves.
This.

And all this liability and lawsuit bullcrap is something that can also fuck off, the world would be so much better without all that crap. All these "what if's" and huge lawsuits over stupid crap needs to go. Sadly it's only getting worse, not better.
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Old 11-12-2012, 09:04 PM   #50
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He was outside...

Ya know, sometimes the government needs to just fuck off, and let people live their lives as they see fit. Life's dangerous, and it isn't the government's job o protect us from ourselves.
I am well aware he was outside. What exactly does him being outside have anything to do with what I wrote?

That stops him from being in danger how?

Please explain in detail as I lack the required PhD...
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