Will a bullet fire in outer space? - Page 3

Kaido · 08-20-2009, 08:35 PM

So if you're on a treadmill and you fire a gun in outerspace, will the counter-reactive force sending you flying backwards?

91TTZ · 08-20-2009, 08:38 PM

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Originally posted by: apac
no oxygen = no kaboom

How did your post get all the way down here?

CallMeJoe · 08-20-2009, 08:40 PM

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Originally posted by: spidey07

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Originally posted by: 91TTZ

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Originally posted by: spidey07
Regarding the slide on a handgun as to if it would cycle another round. I think highly unlikely, the energy that pushes the slide back would all go to pushing YOU back instead of the spring.

Incorrect. The same physics still apply.

You, in zero gravity, are no acting force other than your mass. So I guess it would all come down to one's mass and the springs force. You're right though, it's all a question of acceleration/mass. I misspoke when I said "all of the energy", it's between you and the spring.
dammit, don't make me think.
That leads me to believe a gas assist would have a higher chance as the spring is much weaker.

The recoil should initially transfer primarily to the slide, with sufficient energy to cycle the mechanism. As the slide (and barrel) compress the spring, an increasing portion of the recoil would transfer through the pistol frame to you and start your reactive backslide.

sandorski · 08-20-2009, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: 91TTZ

Quote:

Originally posted by: apac
no oxygen = no kaboom

How did your post get all the way down here?

Time Warp

Gibsons · 08-20-2009, 09:40 PM

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Originally posted by: DrPizza

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Originally posted by: spidey07

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Originally posted by: DrPizza

People actually thought that bullets need atmospheric oxygen??
What? Does it magically seep through the brass casing to get to the gunpowder after the primer has been struck? And seep quickly at that!

They never watched Mr. Wizzard and how much fun he had with gunpowder. I weep for our young'uns.

Mr. Wizard isn't the only thing teaching common sense, is it?
edit: wasn't (past tense)

Also, regarding freezing quickly in space. It's absolutely amazing that people don't realize how a Thermos works. Must be magic!

Okay, two guys were walking to work one morning. The first guy was from <your university>, the other guy was from <your rival>.

The guy from <your university> was carrying a thermos. The guy from <your rival> "What's that?"

He answers "It's a thermos, I've got my coffee in it, the thermos will keep it hot all day."

The nest day the same two are walking to work again and the guy from <your university> has his thermos again. The rival guy says "Havin' coffee again?"

He answers, "No today I've got fruit juice in it, the thermos will keep it nice and cold all day."

"So it'll keep things hot OR cold?" "Yep."

Next day they walk to work together again and the guy from <your rival> has a thermos. The guy from <your university> asks him what's in it.

He answers "One cup of chili and an ice cream sandwich."

try the veal.

FoBoT · 08-20-2009, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by: sandorski
The big question is: Plane on a Treadmill in Space, does it take off?

i think you mean a rocketship on a treadmill

LifesABeta · 08-20-2009, 09:44 PM

Space thugs are the next social threat to outer space society.

TehMac · 08-20-2009, 10:13 PM

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Originally posted by: Skoorb

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Originally posted by: 91TTZ

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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Yes. The russians even had a high caliber gun on one of their spy satellites in the 70's (?). It was intended to be used by the guys on it to take out other satellites if the opportunity ever arose. It never did, but I think they may have done a test fire of it.

That seems really unlikely, considering that most satellites aren't even remotely close to one another. You'd have to steer over to the other satellite which isn't even possible if they're in different orbits.

Yeah it would be all but impossible, plus the speed it would be going by you, I don't know why they bothered.

link

Quote:

In 1974, the Soviet Union launched the Salyut 3 space station, code-named Almaz, which secretly carried a 23-mm Nudelmann aircraft cannon. According to Soviet cosmonauts, tests run on this very first space gun were a success?the cannon even destroyed a target satellite. Although Almaz tracked several American spacecraft, including Skylab, the Soviets never attacked any of them.

And so the question definitively answered.

That's pretty fucking awesome actually. Russians are gods when it comes to designing weapons.

jlee · 08-20-2009, 10:15 PM

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Originally posted by: techs

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Originally posted by: Gibsons

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Originally posted by: apac
no oxygen = no kaboom

atmospheric oxygen isn't needed.

So you are saying there is an oxidizer in the gun powder? (and there would also have to be some in the fulminate of mercury, or whatever they are using nowadays as the primer)

Bullets are pretty tight in the casing. You don't need to poke a hole in it before you fire, do ya?

spidey07 · 08-20-2009, 10:17 PM

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Originally posted by: JLee

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Originally posted by: techs

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Originally posted by: Gibsons

Quote:

Originally posted by: apac
no oxygen = no kaboom

atmospheric oxygen isn't needed.

So you are saying there is an oxidizer in the gun powder? (and there would also have to be some in the fulminate of mercury, or whatever they are using nowadays as the primer)

Bullets are pretty tight in the casing. You don't need to poke a hole in it before you fire, do ya?

I'm gonna have to go back to Mr. Wizzard. Gun powder was invented...what? 1800 years ago?

And yet here we are. Gun powder seems to be some magic powder that doesn't work in space. I blame our education system.

SammySnood · 08-21-2009, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Bullets are pretty tight in the casing. You don't need to poke a hole in it before you fire, do ya?

Is that why they call that thing a firing pin???

Edit: Uh, considering some of the replies in this thread, I thought I'd better add a

or something.

AyashiKaibutsu · 08-21-2009, 02:06 PM

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Originally posted by: zerocool84

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Originally posted by: Fayd

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Originally posted by: zerocool84
The gun would freeze before they even shot it. It's -455*F/-270*C out there.

except there's nothing to transfer heat away from the gun, so it just radiates. radiating heat is a very slow process.

I'm no expert but wouldn't the sliding mechanism not function with a change of temp that quickly assuming it's made out of metal of course???

Jesus christ do people even read...

Auryg · 08-21-2009, 02:16 PM

I think the real question is how fast would the barrel overheat? With basically no heat dissipation I imagine it wouldn't take very many shots.

physicsnerd · 11-10-2012, 07:14 PM

Contrary to popular belief (excluding the fact that you and the gun will freeze if not wearing appropriate clothing) guns will indeed fire in space. Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammunition contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.

The only difference between pulling the trigger on Earth and in space is the shape of the resulting smoke trail. In space, it would be an expanding sphere of smoke from the tip of the barrel!

Minerva · 11-10-2012, 07:24 PM

Space is nearly a perfect vacuum, I don't see this mentioned anywhere in the thread.

Has anyone studied the effects of exceedingly low atmospheric pressure on shell casings and their reliability? Shotgun shells would "vent" quickly as the crimp is far from a perfect seal.

oldsmoboat · 11-10-2012, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by physicsnerd

Contrary to popular belief (excluding the fact that you and the gun will freeze if not wearing appropriate clothing) guns will indeed fire in space. Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammunition contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.

The only difference between pulling the trigger on Earth and in space is the shape of the resulting smoke trail. In space, it would be an expanding sphere of smoke from the tip of the barrel!

What have you done with Ruby?!

gorcorps · 11-10-2012, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by physicsnerd

Contrary to popular belief (excluding the fact that you and the gun will freeze if not wearing appropriate clothing) guns will indeed fire in space. Fires can't burn in the oxygen-free vacuum of space, but guns can shoot. Modern ammunition contains its own oxidizer, a chemical that will trigger the explosion of gunpowder, and thus the firing of a bullet, wherever you are in the universe. No atmospheric oxygen required.

The only difference between pulling the trigger on Earth and in space is the shape of the resulting smoke trail. In space, it would be an expanding sphere of smoke from the tip of the barrel!

nerd

WaTaGuMp · 11-10-2012, 07:39 PM

Fucking thread necroer's.

oldsmoboat · 11-10-2012, 07:40 PM

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Originally Posted by WaTaGuMp

Fucking thread necroer's.

Post count +1

WaTaGuMp · 11-10-2012, 07:43 PM

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Originally Posted by oldsmoboat

Post count +1

Do bullets fire in basements in space?

oldsmoboat · 11-10-2012, 07:46 PM

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Originally Posted by WaTaGuMp

Do bullets fire in basements in space?

Not much space in the basement...

WaTaGuMp · 11-10-2012, 07:57 PM

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Originally Posted by oldsmoboat

Not much space in the basement...

Just fire them into the dead ATOT members bodies you have down there. Hi mods, we are talking in the necro thread.

Paratus · 11-10-2012, 09:06 PM

While I know this is a necro I have to mention this.

While deep space is exceedingly cold, 2 degrees K above absolute 0, that's only if you are pointed at deep space. If you are pointed at the sun it's much warmer.

Heat transfer only happens through radiation which sucks compared to convection or conduction. So it would take hours to freeze a person exposed to deep space.

Now if these bullets were fired in orbit around a planetary body, depending on the the trajectory any slugs that missed may return the following orbit and recontact the ship they were fired from.

<- works for NASA

Farmer · 11-10-2012, 09:11 PM

It's hard to say. You would actually need to solve the problem to see if you freeze at all. If the time constant on the cooling is large, so is the steady state resistance to heat transfer, so maybe the steady state temperature of your skin may not be below freezing. Due to constant heat generation in your body, the steady state temperature is not somewhere around 2 K.

Not sure how working for NASA qualifies your post. I'm sure every 1st year science student knows about conic orbits.

Paratus · 11-10-2012, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Farmer

It's hard to say. You would actually need to solve the problem to see if you freeze at all. If the time constant on the cooling is large, so is the steady state resistance to heat transfer, so maybe the steady state temperature of your skin may not be below freezing.

Not sure how working for NASA qualifies your post. I'm sure every 1st year science student knows about conic orbits.

Any engineer who has taken heat mass transfer knows that radiation is the slowest method of heat transfer with the same source and sink temperatures in general.

And yes you would have to know more about the given scenario to figure out what the final temperature of a gun would be.

I happen to be an electrical/thermal flight controller for the ISS. We see temperatures down to -60 C on the radiators and occasionally up to 30 or 40 C on our external powered equipment depending on attitude, solar beta, and how well the cooling system is working.

People on this board tend to mention what they do if they are posting about something they are familiar with from their jobs. Like mentioning your in IT when talking about enterprise storage solutions.