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Old 11-10-2012, 12:20 PM   #1
LordSegan
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Default Console gaming dying? lol

http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/tech/g...ead/index.html

Interesting take. For me, you can pry my PC out of my cold dead hands.
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Old 11-10-2012, 12:41 PM   #2
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http://www.cnn.com/2012/11/09/tech/g...ead/index.html

Interesting take. For me, you can pry my PC out of my cold dead hands.
This may reverse when the new consoles come out. Unfortunately, the decline in console games IMO is not good for PC gaming either. I say this because, the trend is away from epic single player games and toward social gaming (shudder), tablet games, and MMOs, which I refuse to play as well. Granted, there are some indie games that are good, but I have not seemed to really be able to get into those. And just look at the franchises that have gone to online status. KOTOR turned into TOR, now Command and Conquer is mainly online, although EA gave in to the protests and claims they will add single player to the new online game. Even Bethesda is going to an online model. They claim they will still make single player games, but I wonder how much the quality will suffer if they devote a lot of their resources to online. Even Age of Empires went online. How I would have loved another great single player AOE game.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:10 PM   #3
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This may reverse when the new consoles come out. Unfortunately, the decline in console games IMO is not good for PC gaming either. I say this because, the trend is away from epic single player games and toward social gaming (shudder), tablet games, and MMOs, which I refuse to play as well. Granted, there are some indie games that are good, but I have not seemed to really be able to get into those. And just look at the franchises that have gone to online status. KOTOR turned into TOR, now Command and Conquer is mainly online, although EA gave in to the protests and claims they will add single player to the new online game. Even Bethesda is going to an online model. They claim they will still make single player games, but I wonder how much the quality will suffer if they devote a lot of their resources to online. Even Age of Empires went online. How I would have loved another great single player AOE game.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:27 PM   #4
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Not dying... yet.
But phones and tablets started to poke console in the ass from below.
Enough phones can play a role of console. Or at least are close to this ability.
An currently, it's wise to spend $60 on 60+ iOS games than on most AAA titles. Quality of Android games comes closer to the same standard.
Funnily enough PC has nothing to fear from mobile devices. And unless new generation of consoles pack a significant punch, embrace some of the PC trends and open up a little, they won't pose as much threat as they currently face.
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Old 11-10-2012, 01:30 PM   #5
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Didn't read the article outside of the first few paragraphs. I think a fair bit of the reason of the slump is, the current consoles are old as fuck. On top of that, publishers are all crapping out the same game with a new coat of paint essentially. That is totally their fault as there are enough of fucktards out there buying it to make it worthwhile, but I think a lot of the more serious gamers aren't buying much anymore because of the lack of good and/or original games out there.

One of the things that has helped consoles out with the 5 year cycle was that they pretty much had that new and shiny shit going on. After a few years of owning a console from its launch most tire of it and don't bother much with it. New console comes out and graphically blows away the last one everyone and grandma are lined up for it and the cycle would repeat. Now that we are in the what 7th? year of this cycle, shit is crusty and stale now (and is probably why games are the way they are because it is getting harder for people to give a fuck).

Worst part of it all is, because now that consoles are the lead for the game industry, us PC gamers are generally getting bent over as well because of this even though we've had the hardware for years to smoke the consoles.

Video games becoming something the masses now consume has been the worst thing for people that have been gaming for more then the last 2-3 generations of consoles.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:00 PM   #6
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The other thing that was mentioned in the console forum was the casual gamers who bought the Wii didn't buy any software and just now people started to realize that. When the casual crows walked away, that's millions of people who are not buying anything.
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Old 11-10-2012, 02:18 PM   #7
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Not dying... yet.
But phones and tablets started to poke console in the ass from below.
Enough phones can play a role of console. Or at least are close to this ability.
An currently, it's wise to spend $60 on 60+ iOS games than on most AAA titles. Quality of Android games comes closer to the same standard.
Funnily enough PC has nothing to fear from mobile devices. And unless new generation of consoles pack a significant punch, embrace some of the PC trends and open up a little, they won't pose as much threat as they currently face.
This is rubbish. Gaming on a tiny mobile device doesn't replace an experience in your living room. Gaming on a mobile device is okay, but it doesn't replace a big screen experience in all it's glory. There will always be those who prefer a grand experience when sitting on the couch at home, and mobile devices can't replicate that look and feel.

I read an article recently about profits in mobile gaming, and there are very few projects making big bucks there. It is not profitable unless you're in the top 2%, angry bird makes money but most projects do not -- because most people expect your product to cost 2-3$ tops.

Fact of the matter is, the economy sucks, and consumers demand more for less because we're more informed than ever. Gamers that may have bought a bad game unknowingly 10 years ago, is extremely unlikely to do so now -- we are more selective than ever before. I don't think this is the video game industry dying - or going 100% mobile -- people just expect better products for less. Can big publishers deliver that? I dunno -- I would point out that inflation has largely unaffected video games; super NES games years ago cost 60-70$. So there isn't a big price difference. Honestly, since video game prices haven't changed at ALL in the past 10-15 years, i'm very surprised when people complain about price. Shrug.

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Old 11-10-2012, 03:02 PM   #8
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This is rubbish. Gaming on a tiny mobile device doesn't replace an experience in your living room. Gaming on a mobile device is okay, but it doesn't replace a big screen experience in all it's glory. There will always be those who prefer a grand experience when sitting on the couch at home, and mobile devices can't replicate that look and feel.
Currently, a significant chunk of mobile devices support HDMI. Plug it in your TV, hook up one or two wireless controllers and you can do simple "console" gaming.
Skip couple of generations, add wireless hdmi into the mix and now with couple of phones or tablets and one big screen you can implement far more interesting ideas.
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Old 11-10-2012, 03:19 PM   #9
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Honestly, since video game prices haven't changed at ALL in the past 10-15 years, i'm very surprised when people complain about price. Shrug.
Also to point out that some of these games are beyond Hollywood quality. Some of the world's greatest artists and animators, millions of lines of code, (sometimes epic story writing), music composition, mixing, recording, voice overs... etc People want all this stuff cheap.

The problem is with most games, to achieve that and have a reasonably priced product you have to cut corners somewhere. I think the biggest corner being cut is 'fun' and creative game design elements. They have a formula for making games and the formula has gotten stale. Throw in the crap about piracy, adding DRM, online-only play and you have messed up a lot of games. It's all becoming social gaming and it's awful.

I'm waiting to see what happens to Windows 8, 9, 10.... etc and what that does to gaming. What Valve plans on doing with Linux. Oculus Rift coming eventually. There are a lot of good things that could happen. Developers might have to decide between consoles, Windows, Steam Box etc... Windows might not even be an option in the future. Is Linux going to be the new 'PC gaming'? How many people are really going to jump on board? I don't know a single person besides myself that has Linux installed on anything. I don't know a single person who would even consider or have the ability to even do so. Not that it's difficult. If a Steam Box is to go mainstream then a lot of marketing is going to need to be involved I think.

PC gaming might be coming to a crossroads soon, all at the hands of Microsoft. Or all of this shit could just be blown way out of freaking proportion and accommodation will be made for software such as Steam. It doesn't make sense to me for MS to keep Direct X in development only to dick an entire industry over. Some people will say that Apple has had their app store all along... but that's just the point. Entire industries weren't allowed to form on their platform only to have a rug pulled out from under them. It was like that from the start.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:07 PM   #10
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They were quoting a dude from Zynga as an expert source.



As for Steam and Linux, it's cute but pretty transparent as to what's going on there. There's no future revolution in gaming with Linux, it's just a Steam temper tantrum from losing their almost monopoly in digital distribution. They are going somewhere where no other consumer choice exists in order to try and boost their revenue.

Steam works just fine under Windows 8, it's the Windows software distribution store that Steam fears.
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:09 PM   #11
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They were quoting a dude from Zynga as an expert source.



As for Steam and Linux, it's cute but pretty transparent as to what's going on there. There's no future revolution in gaming with Linux, it's just a Steam temper tantrum from losing their almost monopoly in digital distribution. They are going somewhere where no other consumer choice exists in order to try and boost their revenue.

Steam works just fine under Windows 8, it's the Windows software distribution store that Steam fears.
Do you think Microsoft is going to allow a store within a store? Microsoft's royalties on top of Valve's royalties?
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Old 11-10-2012, 04:12 PM   #12
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As far as the whole mobile gaming "scare", I fail to see any real concern. There is little proof that mobile gaming takes from the console gaming market. Instead, it is just a different audience all together - people who wouldn't have a console either way. Recently released console games are selling more copies than ever before. The only reason game and accessory sales are down is because the console's lives are ending, and less games are being produced. So why do people pretend console gaming is in jeopardy?

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Do you think Microsoft is going to allow a store within a store? Microsoft's royalties on top of Valve's royalties?
Windows 8 is out. Yes, Microsoft allows Steam. No, they do not take another cut on top of Steam's.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:27 PM   #13
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Do you think Microsoft is going to allow a store within a store? Microsoft's royalties on top of Valve's royalties?
They don't have to "allow" it since Steam runs in Desktop mode. Windows RT is ARM only and those aren't exactly gaming powerhouse devices that could even run most of the games on Steam.

Nobody is buying a Asus VIVO Tablet and saying "hey I wanna play Skyrim on here". So trying to say that Microsoft will prevent Valve from releasing steam on Metro is stupid since none of the devices locked to Metro UI only (WIndows RT devices) will be playing the type of games that Steam offers.
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Old 11-10-2012, 05:29 PM   #14
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Win 8 means PC gaming is dieing again, right? For what, the fifth time now?

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They were quoting a dude from Zynga as an expert source.
Wishful thinking by Zynga, probably trying to dupe more investors.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:14 PM   #15
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Interesting take. For me, you can pry my PC out of my cold dead hands.
Don't lump PC gaming in with console gaming. While console game sales are doing horrible, Steam continues to grow at a fast pace.

Someone already mentioned Kickstarter. Indie games are doing better than ever. Star Citizen has already raised over $3 million dollars.

Steam is going to Linux, and lots of games on Kickstarter are also being developed for Linux and Macs. So PC gaming is also growing on other operating systems besides Windows.

Meanwhile, the Sony corporation is having massive financial problems, Nintendo continues to lose money, and the Xbox has still lost more money than it made. The next generation, might just be the last for at least one of them.
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Old 11-10-2012, 06:29 PM   #16
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Do you think Microsoft is going to allow a store within a store? Microsoft's royalties on top of Valve's royalties?


They HAVE to. They can't even bundle their own free web browser without offering alternatives. Governments have huge anti-trust leashes already up their butts, they aren't going to leverage their OS against others in a very lucrative market.
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Old 11-10-2012, 07:28 PM   #17
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Also to point out that some of these games are beyond Hollywood quality. Some of the world's greatest artists and animators, millions of lines of code, (sometimes epic story writing), music composition, mixing, recording, voice overs... etc People want all this stuff cheap.

The problem is with most games, to achieve that and have a reasonably priced product you have to cut corners somewhere. I think the biggest corner being cut is 'fun' and creative game design elements. They have a formula for making games and the formula has gotten stale. Throw in the crap about piracy, adding DRM, online-only play and you have messed up a lot of games. It's all becoming social gaming and it's awful.

I'm waiting to see what happens to Windows 8, 9, 10.... etc and what that does to gaming. What Valve plans on doing with Linux. Oculus Rift coming eventually. There are a lot of good things that could happen. Developers might have to decide between consoles, Windows, Steam Box etc... Windows might not even be an option in the future. Is Linux going to be the new 'PC gaming'? How many people are really going to jump on board? I don't know a single person besides myself that has Linux installed on anything. I don't know a single person who would even consider or have the ability to even do so. Not that it's difficult. If a Steam Box is to go mainstream then a lot of marketing is going to need to be involved I think.

PC gaming might be coming to a crossroads soon, all at the hands of Microsoft. Or all of this shit could just be blown way out of freaking proportion and accommodation will be made for software such as Steam. It doesn't make sense to me for MS to keep Direct X in development only to dick an entire industry over. Some people will say that Apple has had their app store all along... but that's just the point. Entire industries weren't allowed to form on their platform only to have a rug pulled out from under them. It was like that from the start.
I am not being sarcastic, but a legitimate question. I agree some AAA recent games have quality and immersion much like a hollywood movie. I just would like to know what recent games have "epic story writing" in your opinion. I agree that music, visuals, pacing, etc are very good although not exactly original. But I cant think of a recent game that has an epic story. Mass Effect did until the atrocious ending to the third installment, but otherwise???
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:08 PM   #18
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I am not being sarcastic, but a legitimate question. I agree some AAA recent games have quality and immersion much like a hollywood movie. I just would like to know what recent games have "epic story writing" in your opinion. I agree that music, visuals, pacing, etc are very good although not exactly original. But I cant think of a recent game that has an epic story. Mass Effect did until the atrocious ending to the third installment, but otherwise???



To be fair the expanded ending DLC really fixed the problems with ME3's ending. So it doesn't seem to be a writing problem there but instead a publisher rushing a product out the door problem.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:20 PM   #19
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Oh gosh not one of these threads again. Please let gaming die. Great. Then when all the greedy assholes have left the industry, maybe we can get back to fun games again. Even if it means graphics like the old Atari, I don't care.
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Old 11-10-2012, 08:23 PM   #20
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"People aren't as motivated by cutting-edge graphics as they once were," says Paul Neurath, creative director at Zynga, makers of "FarmVille," "Mafia Wars" and other social games on Facebook.
"Gamers that care intensely about graphics will continue to do so, but I think there are fewer now than there were in the past," he says. "Big leaps in graphics no longer exist
what we need is a leap in AI.


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"The business model for a five-year life cycle isn't working for Sony and Microsoft," says Cole. "They spend billions to R&D and market these new systems, they sell them at a loss for the first few years and then they don't really have the software business to make up the cost. They are better getting out of the business entirely rather than go after a five-year life cycle."
maybe refresh the hardware each year, backwards compatable with older games. Most tablet users pay $400+ bucks for a new model either one year or the next later, the hardware is refreshed for the same price as previous year model and old games run faster while new games can look better. Use off the shelf hardware, not that obscure proprietary crap that takes developers years to get good with. Also, something like Steam deals and rid of optical media. sure many don't have broadband for DD games, but Valve has no trouble making money and keeping many users.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:09 PM   #21
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what we need is a leap in AI.
I agree. Typical games will have dozens of artists for the graphics, but for the AI it will be one programmer who only works on the AI part time.

I think the average game AI has gotten dumber over the years.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:31 PM   #22
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Didn't read the article outside of the first few paragraphs. I think a fair bit of the reason of the slump is, the current consoles are old as fuck. On top of that, publishers are all crapping out the same game with a new coat of paint essentially. That is totally their fault as there are enough of fucktards out there buying it to make it worthwhile, but I think a lot of the more serious gamers aren't buying much anymore because of the lack of good and/or original games out there.
yeah this. most actual "gamers" (cliche but true) will be gamers their entire lives. if there is a big dip in gaming purchases it's because of a lack of creativity and the same shit being recycled over and over. and despite what the shitty article said, it is partly the economy. publishers aren't taking risks and creative projects that may have seen light are being squashed. I really really hope some of these kickstarter projects are successful.
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Old 11-11-2012, 11:21 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by frozentundra123456 View Post
I am not being sarcastic, but a legitimate question. I agree some AAA recent games have quality and immersion much like a hollywood movie. I just would like to know what recent games have "epic story writing" in your opinion. I agree that music, visuals, pacing, etc are very good although not exactly original. But I cant think of a recent game that has an epic story. Mass Effect did until the atrocious ending to the third installment, but otherwise???
God of War, Uncharted is pretty good, Heavy Rain, Sleeping Dogs had a great storyline IMO, I like the mythology and everything in the Halo universe as well, Max Payne as well, Bioshock.

There's a ton of games which tell a fantastic story along with the gameplay.
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Old 11-11-2012, 01:59 PM   #24
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This is rubbish. Gaming on a tiny mobile device doesn't replace an experience in your living room. Gaming on a mobile device is okay, but it doesn't replace a big screen experience in all it's glory. There will always be those who prefer a grand experience when sitting on the couch at home, and mobile devices can't replicate that look and feel.
It's not rubbish. Just like consoles dumbed down the PC experience, 'smart phones' are dumbing down the console experience and there's no shortage users along for the ride.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:55 AM   #25
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I agree. Typical games will have dozens of artists for the graphics, but for the AI it will be one programmer who only works on the AI part time.

I think the average game AI has gotten dumber over the years.
You know why? Because of the cheap, easy way out of just throwing in multiplayer modes and saying 'Who needs AI?'.

And then the hordes of fools who excuse it by saying the same tired, "Well, if you want a real challenge, play against other people. Who needs good AI?"
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