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Old 11-08-2012, 01:19 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by openwheel View Post
LOL you try to squeeze into a class of 120 when there are 500 people trying to take the same class. My little cousins are having trouble just getting the classes they want.
I took a class for fun at my local community college. I was very surprised to see that they were closed on Fridays and had cut a huge amount of classes. The grant programs were all suspended. On the first day of class I was out in the hall since there was no room to get in there. Luckily most dropped and I got in.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:26 PM   #77
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Then there would be a lot less in college......the way it should be anyway.
Or, decide that to have a filter to decide who to pay tuition for, and just pay it. I am conditionally for publicly-funded college education (and, a significant minority of my college costs were paid for by the state). Conditionally, because, of course, just paying for everyone to do what they want would be stupid to fund. Some filtering, or even limiting it to STEM, would be necessary.

However, a loan should be a fair deal between a lender of money and a borrower of money, with the risk v. reward for both parties deciding the amount and interest, or whether one should be approved for any amount at all.

Student loans have very much become nearly-unchecked subsidies for schooling institutions, and worse, in a way that helps increase the student population in a way that does not benefit many of those students. It's debt that's way too available and cheap, but the strings attached are not something that most people will understand when they start taking it out (if you didn't make stupid decisions back then, that's great for you, but most people do, and you won't be bale to magically fix that situation).

It's not that schools make all their money that way, but that's an easy way for them to acquire money, and an easy way for the students to borrow money, regardless of how easy it will be for the student to pay it back. Yet those two aspects of the deal should have to balance each other, rather than just being easy.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:21 PM   #78
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We don't need 300,000 French History Majors. When was the last time you saw an ad for "Philosopher wanted". Keep it within the realm of employment, have job placement programs, internships, and an actual end game.
How many worthless degrees do you think we are pumping out? Philosophy and religious studies combined to total less than 1% of degrees granted per year.

The largest concentrations of degrees are in Business, Health, Education. The number getting commonly called 'worthless' degrees is still quite small - although they do tend to make headlines

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Even better idea: let lenders lose their money, so that they will have incentive to loan money out based on the chances of it being paid back, with an appropriate interest rate.
To be fair the rules were put in place because a lot of people getting degrees requiring a lot of schooling (doctors) were declaring bankruptcy after graduating and wiping out their loans. Unfortunately instead of a compromise we swung completely in the other direction
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:26 PM   #79
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How many worthless degrees do you think we are pumping out? Philosophy and religious studies combined to total less than 1% of degrees granted per year.

The largest concentrations of degrees are in Business, Health, Education. The number getting commonly called 'worthless' degrees is still quite small - although they do tend to make headlines
Communication degrees were the joke when I was in college. Where did you find %'s for degrees?
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:40 PM   #80
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Communication majors make good cops cause they have to write reports all the time so everything has value. Education as a whole has value to understanding the world around you even if you are relegated to digging ditches due to our hollowed out/service economy. Prefer history majors so they understand how it happened and work to prevent it in future with good education.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:54 PM   #81
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Ah, yet another excuse to vote for the Gimmedat party. The first mistake is assuming that anyone is entitled to a college education. Contrary to popular belief, a college education is not necessary to become successful. Does it help? It might, so long as you don't get into $100,000 debt for a degree in wymyns studies and then work as a taxpayer-funded public sector paper-pusher.

What's more appalling is the refusal of social safety net pundits to acknowledge that their asinine policies are the reason why college costs an arm and a leg these days. When you have an increased demand for college education driven by government-sponsored loans, what do you expect to happen to the price of entry? The same thing that happened to house prices when anyone with a pulse could obtain a loan for the McMansion they always wanted. And unsurprisingly, in their arrogance and tunnel vision, the only solution the leftists can see is more bailouts and more handouts... kinda like more stimulus because the first 3 weren't big enough.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:30 PM   #82
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Government thinks everyone should own a home. Forces financial institutions to give loans to anyone.

What could possibly go wrong?

Government thinks everyone should go to college. Makes loans to anyone.

What could possibly go wrong?


Some data about choosing a major:

Worst College Majors for Your Career

1. Anthropology
2. Fine Arts
3. Film and Photography
4. Philosophy and Religious Studies
5. Graphic Design
6. Studio Arts
7. Liberal Arts
8. Drama and Theater Arts
9. Sociology
10. English

Metrics used: Unemployment rate, Recent grad employment rate, Median salary, Median salary for recent grads, Projected job growth, Likelhood of working retail

Data from Payscale.com and Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce.

Uno
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:41 PM   #83
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These next four years are going to awesome. The hangover afterwards is going to be brutal.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unokitty View Post
Some data about choosing a major:

Worst College Majors for Your Career

1. Anthropology
2. Fine Arts
3. Film and Photography
4. Philosophy and Religious Studies
5. Graphic Design
6. Studio Arts
7. Liberal Arts
8. Drama and Theater Arts
9. Sociology
10. English

Metrics used: Unemployment rate, Recent grad employment rate, Median salary, Median salary for recent grads, Projected job growth, Likelhood of working retail

Data from Payscale.com and Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce.

Uno
I am astonished Architecture is not on there. Highest unemployment of any degree you can get (13.9%) which is more than 3x the average for a degree. Starting salary around $36,000 (In line with Ethnic and Civilization studies). The median income must set it apart given the disparity from the top to the bottom...

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Originally Posted by randomrogue View Post
Communication degrees were the joke when I was in college. Where did you find %'s for degrees?
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d...s/dt11_286.asp
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:11 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by highland145 View Post
fixed.

Bro ia a plumber.
I'll one-up you there, the plumber who just finished the 12-plex my guys just finished wiring made about $400 per hour, and his company was the cheapest around by 30%.
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:33 PM   #86
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To be fair the rules were put in place because a lot of people getting degrees requiring a lot of schooling (doctors) were declaring bankruptcy after graduating and wiping out their loans. Unfortunately instead of a compromise we swung completely in the other direction
Yup. But, oh, let's not deal with it as a loophole of bankruptcy laws and regs. Instead, why don't we change the system to just remove the risk from the people that are receiving the money? That's a grand idea, no?
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Old 11-08-2012, 05:38 PM   #87
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This whole premise is stupid.

I took student loans. I paid them off early. Wasn't a big deal and was cheap as dirt debt. My interest rate was 2.25%.

If you're borrowing excessive money like some fools to get a low paying job then you're an idiot. You can do 2 years of community college for your prereqs and it's pretty much free (I made money on it through grants and scholarships) and then transfer to a 4 year university to finish the degree. This makes your bachelors degree cost next to nothing. Alternatively get a full ride from the beginning at a 4 year university. For graduate school get into a program where you get paid or get a job on the side. If you're a dual national do some or all of your education overseas where it can be free.

These morons who borrow a hundred grand or more better have an amazing job lined up. These students who get an expensive education and a liberal arts degree simply didn't think it through and are going to get destroyed financially. They shouldn't have borrowed in the first place.
Subsidized loans are gone.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #88
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You mean the administrators and professors who are making 6 figures are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. A professor who once reaches tenor can do what they want and never get fired and make 6 figures to teach 1 class.

The rest is spot on the cheap student loans and increasing aid have made the price of college go up. People who run colleges are not dumb they know the government will give more aid and loans every years to they can jack up prices.

Stossel had a great show on this were it just showed how disgusting the whole system is. Colleges spending millions on state of the art gym and rec centers to attract students. Instead of spending that money on education.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBDRrKIMHGo

Instead of saying everyone needs to go to college they need to push more people to trade schools. Also anyone who did not do a year or 2 at a community college to get generals done has no right to bitch.
The majority of tenured professors in the US make no where near six figures. Most are in the $70-80k range. And tenured professors have to teach two classes, not one and they have to advise multiple masters/doctoral students.

And lets keep things in perspective. Someone with a two year Associates of Nursing starts out making more than most Professors start out at.

Last edited by Wreckem; 11-08-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:45 PM   #89
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Subsidized loans are gone.
Subsidized loans are gone for graduate students. Undergrads who qualify still get subsidized loans.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:35 PM   #90
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If you got a degree in Computer Science in 2000 you got a great job.
By 2010 your job was in India and you are unemployed.

Are you kidding? A Computer Science degree is like one of the top 5 degrees to have right now.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:09 AM   #91
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Originally Posted by stormkroe View Post
I'll one-up you there, the plumber who just finished the 12-plex my guys just finished wiring made about $400 per hour, and his company was the cheapest around by 30%.


How? Union? That doesn't compute either.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:28 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by randomrogue View Post
Healthcare and education should be free. We should all be picking up the tab so that we have a healthier and more educated population.

Just simply cap enrollment to those that can actually get a job. There is no need for a million art literature majors.
At some point you're going to realize you contradicted yourself.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:30 AM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unokitty View Post
Government thinks everyone should own a home. Forces financial institutions to give loans to anyone.

What could possibly go wrong?

Government thinks everyone should go to college. Makes loans to anyone.

What could possibly go wrong?


Some data about choosing a major:

Worst College Majors for Your Career

1. Anthropology
2. Fine Arts
3. Film and Photography
4. Philosophy and Religious Studies
5. Graphic Design
6. Studio Arts
7. Liberal Arts
8. Drama and Theater Arts
9. Sociology
10. English

Metrics used: Unemployment rate, Recent grad employment rate, Median salary, Median salary for recent grads, Projected job growth, Likelhood of working retail

Data from Payscale.com and Georgetown University's Center on Education and the Workforce.

Uno
I have a sociology degree with a philosophy minor. I can personally attest, what a profoundly bad idea that was!
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:33 AM   #94
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With all the attention on the Latino vote no on is talking about the real game changer in American politics.

Student loans.

As the cost of a college education has gotten huge the amounts of loans students are taking has also gotten huge. New laws that don't allow even bankruptcy to wipe out these loans have really reshaped students attitudes.

Students are increasingly worried not just how they will meet the payments on these loans, but what will happen if they lose their job for awhile, or get sick, etc. These are young people who eat ramen noodles and scrape together the money for a six pack on a friday night.

These young people understand the need for a safety net.
When even the young college graduates are looking to join the dependent classes, you've officially gone over the cliff as a nation, and you're just waiting on impact.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:40 AM   #95
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At some point you're going to realize you contradicted yourself.
No. I'm not. I'm saying it should be free but not frivolous spending.

We only educate people in limited numbers that correspond to the number of jobs out there.

I had friends who got Philosophy Degrees, Communication Degrees, History Degrees, etc and they were not useful unless you were the best of the best. If you're the best of the best by all means study what you want since you'll be top of your class and qualified to get in on the very limited amount of seats for these types of majors and be getting a good job when you get out. Anthropology might be at the top of that list for worst majors but if you're Diane Fossey or Jane Goodall you're going places.

At some point the mediocre out there need to recognize that a degree in communication is worthless when instead they could have done an apprenticeship as a drill press specialist, gotten a job, been better paid, and had a better life than paying off high student loans working as an office assistant for $11/hr. The really smart people in this recession are getting nursing jobs and specializing. I have a friend making $200K+ with only a 2 year degree. It blows my mind. I don't know a nurse making less than $75K.
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:44 AM   #96
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No. I'm not. I'm saying it should be free but not frivolous spending.

We only educate people in limited numbers that correspond to the number of jobs out there.
It's a nation of 300M+ people, with a ridiculously complex economy. How are you ever going to figure out how many of each kind of degree we need?
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:51 AM   #97
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So we have a lottery for each degree?
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:53 AM   #98
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With all the attention on the Latino vote no on is talking about the real game changer in American politics.

Student loans.

As the cost of a college education has gotten huge the amounts of loans students are taking has also gotten huge. New laws that don't allow even bankruptcy to wipe out these loans have really reshaped students attitudes.

Students are increasingly worried not just how they will meet the payments on these loans, but what will happen if they lose their job for awhile, or get sick, etc. These are young people who eat ramen noodles and scrape together the money for a six pack on a friday night.

These young people understand the need for a safety net. They can actually envision going six months without a job and having the government standing by to garnish their paychecks when they find a job.

The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students. What they see is years of loan repayments before they can think of buying a new car or a house.

Colleges are also "in the game" now as they are more and more relying on students who have borrowed money. The schools and the students have a common interest in keeping money available for loans and in keeping the cost down so a college education is a good financial decision. Colleges are now actively involved in helping their students vote.

So, as important as the expanding Latino vote is, its the students of America who are now being faced with real world economic and political realities. Perhaps for the first time since the Viet Nam war draft. And this leading people to the party that believes in the social net and believes in education.
Wow, you mean flooding the market with excessive amounts of cash DIDNT solve any problems?
You're saying it made MORE?
Really?

NO FUCKING WAY! I am shocked!

Shocked, I say!
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Old 11-09-2012, 07:54 AM   #99
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So we have a lottery for each degree?
I hope I get pre-med, even if I have no aptitude for it! With someone like me performing your surgery, your "will-I-have-enough-money-for-retirement?" worries are out the window! And so's your chances of recovery!
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:20 AM   #100
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It's a nation of 300M+ people, with a ridiculously complex economy. How are you ever going to figure out how many of each kind of degree we need?
They do it where I live now. They tie internships, non-paid practice, and job placement to the program of study. If they find another job to fill they add another spot to the program.

I doubt you could do it on a national level. You don't need to though. MIT might be able to network far wider than say the University of Boise but that's ok.

We see a lot of this already with medical programs. Want to become a pacemaker specialist? The program that teaches it has job placement in 3 of the larger companies. They admit 20 people.
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