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Old 11-09-2012, 04:48 AM   #1
Fjodor2001
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Default Haswell @ 10W TDP - will it enable fanless ultrabooks?

So Haswell will be available in a 10W TDP version. Will that enable fanless ultrabooks?

What do you think?
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:56 AM   #2
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I would doubt it. I had a laptop with a SU2700 which is rated at 10W TDP. Granted, this was a toshiba satellitte with plastic case, but it most definitely needed a fan running to keep from overheating.
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Old 11-09-2012, 05:53 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laputan machine View Post
I would doubt it. I had a laptop with a SU2700 which is rated at 10W TDP. Granted, this was a toshiba satellitte with plastic case, but it most definitely needed a fan running to keep from overheating.
Some thoughts:

* Did that laptop have an SSD or HDD? The latter produces more heat.
* Does the SU2700 have an IGP? If not, it would require an external GFX chip adding to the total system TDP. But for Haswell the IGP is included in the 10W TDP.
* The chipset used for Haswell will have lower TDP.
* There is now DDR3L memory available which has lower power consumption.

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Old 11-09-2012, 06:05 AM   #4
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I have my doubts. Its best if you have at least ONE fan.
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Old 11-09-2012, 06:05 AM   #5
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I have no doubt that it'd run cooler than my old laptop, but I still doubt it will be fanless, especially when you consider they have to build the laptop to be used in much warmer countries as well (I'm in Norway.
HDD and some intel gma solution btw.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:22 AM   #6
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5W is about the limit for air cooling given enough circulation. A laptop is normally very constrained so even once you get down to possible air cooling territory you will need access for air to naturally circulate a bit.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
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5W is about the limit for air cooling given enough circulation. A laptop is normally very constrained so even once you get down to possible air cooling territory you will need access for air to naturally circulate a bit.
But what if you have a metal chassis (which is common for Ultrabooks), then that can act as a heat sink too?
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:50 AM   #8
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Quote:
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But what if you have a metal chassis (which is common for Ultrabooks), then that can act as a heat sink too?
At the risk of burning your lap? Bad design choice there. It could run fanless at the expense of a bigger heatsink which adds weight and size(thickness).
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:54 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fjodor2001 View Post
Some thoughts:

* Did that laptop have an SSD or HDD? The latter produces more heat.
* Does the SU2700 have an IGP? If not, it would require an external GFX chip adding to the total system TDP. But for Haswell the IGP is included in the 10W TDP.
* The chipset used for Haswell will have lower TDP.
* There is now DDR3L memory available which has lower power consumption.
The SU2700 is Core 2-based, so it doesn't have an IGP. The GS45 chipset is rated at 12W TDP, plus the ICH9-M is 2.5W. So overall your SU2700 platform is rated at 24.5W TDP. No wonder it needs a fan...
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:41 AM   #10
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fans == evil .. I'd like one of those fanless haswells :-)
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Old 11-09-2012, 09:52 AM   #11
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You'll definitely need a fan in any laptop processor above a 5W TDP.

Most of your tablet SOCs come in at around 2.5W, and rarely reach that peak.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:06 AM   #12
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Would probably need 2-4W processors and a chassis capable of high thermal conductivity. I'd suspect you'd still need some fins or other clever area-enhancing exterior features to cover a wide-range of environmental temperatures.
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Old 11-09-2012, 10:32 AM   #13
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...... we sure we cant get one of the brilliant engineers to fit a megahelm in that tablet?
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:46 PM   #14
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I've always wanted to see the chassis of a laptop used as a good heatsink. Fins on the sides and bottom and pipes going in two or four directions along the chassis. Considering we cool well over 30W fanless in desktops, sometimes more than 60, this should be feasible.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:06 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I've always wanted to see the chassis of a laptop used as a good heatsink. Fins on the sides and bottom and pipes going in two or four directions along the chassis. Considering we cool well over 30W fanless in desktops, sometimes more than 60, this should be feasible.
A laptop needs to be touched....

And a laptop is often placed on surfaces that aren't good for heat dissipation. Like a lap or a carpet.
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Old 11-10-2012, 09:45 PM   #16
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10w is to much to be fanless in a notebook design and thermal buildup will shorten life span very quickly as well being very uncomfortable experience for the user.
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