Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Social > Politics and News

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Home and Garden
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals with Free Stuff/Contests
· Black Friday 2014
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

View Poll Results: See OP
Yes 14 35.00%
No 18 45.00%
Don't care 8 20.00%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2012, 09:19 PM   #1
her209
No Lifer
 
her209's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: ::1
Posts: 56,109
Default [POLL] If your "guy" had won the popular vote and lost because of the electoral vote,

would you be in support of getting rid of the electoral vote for the popular vote?
__________________
Stop pleasing others and start pleasing yourself.
her209 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 09:21 PM   #2
Newbian
Lifer
 
Newbian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 21,763
Default

I think we went over this during the bush years.
Newbian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 09:33 PM   #3
Hayabusa Rider
Elite Member
 
Hayabusa Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 38,445
Default

I have neither candidate nor party, but I'll ask you a question I can. Do you support the EC as it stands and if your candidate wins the popular vote but loses the election would you want change? Does that also change if it's your opposition and if the answer to the latter is no, would you argue the point with equal force?
Hayabusa Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 10:01 PM   #4
DAGTA
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Posts: 8,027
Default

Regardless of who wins, I'm in support of removing the Electoral College and going with popular vote.
DAGTA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 10:04 PM   #5
Charles Kozierok
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,762
Default

"Winning the popular vote" means nothing in an electoral college election.
__________________
"Of those who say nothing, few are silent." -- Thomas Neill
Charles Kozierok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 10:16 PM   #6
Hayabusa Rider
Elite Member
 
Hayabusa Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 38,445
Default

If the EC represented the voters of the state proportionately it would be pretty close. The EC decides Presidents, but there might be a price to pay if it disregards the popular choice. I would not want to be the "winner" in that scenario.
Hayabusa Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 10:49 PM   #7
SearchMaster
Diamond Member
 
SearchMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 6,434
Default

Absolutely not. The founders set it up for a reason. However, the states themselves have become so partisan that it wasn't a national election, it was an 11 (or fewer) state election. The other thing that's concerning is that if you look county by county, the map is overwhelmingly red, but the Democrat dominance in the large cities sways the vote in alarming ways.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/...ymaprb1024.png
SearchMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 10:55 PM   #8
jagec
Lifer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 24,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchMaster View Post
Absolutely not. The founders set it up for a reason.
Their reasons don't really apply to the world of today.
jagec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 10:58 PM   #9
Charles Kozierok
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hayabusa Rider View Post
The EC decides Presidents, but there might be a price to pay if it disregards the popular choice.
There is no way to know when that actually happens. The closer the "sum of 51 races popular vote", the less likely it actually indicates who would have won a real PV race.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchMaster View Post
The other thing that's concerning is that if you look county by county, the map is overwhelmingly red, but the Democrat dominance in the large cities sways the vote in alarming ways.
People vote. Not cows.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagec View Post
Their reasons don't really apply to the world of today.
That's why we have an amendment process.
__________________
"Of those who say nothing, few are silent." -- Thomas Neill
Charles Kozierok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:04 PM   #10
jagec
Lifer
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 24,069
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesKozierok View Post
That's why we have an amendment process.
Exactly. Get rid of the now-obsolete electoral college.

/edit: D'oh!

Last edited by jagec; 11-08-2012 at 11:33 PM.
jagec is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:12 PM   #11
Charles Kozierok
Elite Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6,762
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jagec View Post
Exactly. Get rid of the non-obsolete electoral college.
Well, the problem is that many small states like having the EC. And it only takes 13 of them to block its removal.

There's the PV interstate compact, but that seems to be stalled.
__________________
"Of those who say nothing, few are silent." -- Thomas Neill
Charles Kozierok is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:16 PM   #12
Balt
Lifer
 
Balt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 11,593
Default

I'm in support of getting rid of it regardless of whether it might cost my preference the election. It clearly increases voter apathy in solid red/blue states.
Balt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:41 PM   #13
Rainsford
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 17,521
Default

I don't think so, no. The electoral college has some decent arguments against it, but people winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college isn't one of them as far as I'm concerned. The biggest issue is more to do with how it focuses the election on an incredibly small percentage of Americans while ignoring millions of Americans in non-competitive states like California and Texas. It doesn't even do what it claims to do when protecting the small states since non-competitive small states are even more ignored than large ones.
__________________
Implicit in the term 'national defense' is the notion of defending those values and ideas
which set this Nation apart...it would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense,
we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties...which makes the defense of
the Nation worthwhile. --Chief Justice Earl Warren, US v Robel (1967)
Rainsford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:45 PM   #14
Rainsford
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Posts: 17,521
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchMaster View Post
Absolutely not. The founders set it up for a reason. However, the states themselves have become so partisan that it wasn't a national election, it was an 11 (or fewer) state election. The other thing that's concerning is that if you look county by county, the map is overwhelmingly red, but the Democrat dominance in the large cities sways the vote in alarming ways.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/...ymaprb1024.png
How is that at all concerning or alarming unless you don't understand population density?
__________________
Implicit in the term 'national defense' is the notion of defending those values and ideas
which set this Nation apart...it would indeed be ironic if, in the name of national defense,
we would sanction the subversion of one of those liberties...which makes the defense of
the Nation worthwhile. --Chief Justice Earl Warren, US v Robel (1967)
Rainsford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 12:02 AM   #15
SKORPI0
Lifer
 
SKORPI0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: I'm from the internet
Posts: 12,224
Default

Map by county - as of Nov 8th.



By Electoral Vote -



http://freedomslighthouse.net/2012-p...oral-vote-map/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elector...ited_States%29
__________________
HP TouchPad - Dual boot Android CM10 (Jelly Bean 4.12) and webOS (F4 Phantom Kernel).
Anandtech Off Topic [Archive] - May 2000-present
i7 3930k @ 4.3GHz @ 1.28v, Asus Sabertooth X79, 32GB (4x8GB) DDR3 1866, PNY GTX 680 4GB, CM HAF 932 Advanced, CM Silent Pro Gold 1kW.
NZXT Kraken X60 PULL, Samsung 830 128gb SSD (Windows 7), Kingston
SSDNow V300 120gb (OS X 10.8.2), Dual Yamakasi 2703, Logitech MK320.

Last edited by SKORPI0; 11-09-2012 at 12:12 AM.
SKORPI0 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 01:08 AM   #16
JEDIYoda
Lifer
 
JEDIYoda's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Israeli side
Posts: 21,878
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SearchMaster View Post
Absolutely not. The founders set it up for a reason. However, the states themselves have become so partisan that it wasn't a national election, it was an 11 (or fewer) state election. The other thing that's concerning is that if you look county by county, the map is overwhelmingly red, but the Democrat dominance in the large cities sways the vote in alarming ways.

http://www-personal.umich.edu/~mejn/...ymaprb1024.png
A bunch of crybabies..just suck it up....Romney lost that`s all there is to it!!
__________________
JohnOfSheffield -- That said, Palestine will exist when they understand that Israel exists, it's that blatantly simple!
JEDIYoda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 01:10 AM   #17
Jaskalas
Lifer
 
Jaskalas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 18,726
Default

I've been wondering about the electoral vote.

At first I had presumed it was in place to balance out state representation the way the Senate does. But of course the big states like CA, TX, and NY all have HUGE portions tied to their population. So the EC is a representation of the popular vote and blows my previous assumption out of the water.

So it's really just a per-state winner take all. Which creates some really stupid campaigning...

I need to be convinced what its purpose is again. I've lost sight of what it's good for.
__________________
"because... you know... the Cold War has been over for 20 years."
-President Obama, 2012 debate.
Jaskalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 01:16 AM   #18
SparkyJJO
Lifer
 
SparkyJJO's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Ohio
Posts: 12,242
Default

The southern-most part of texas is a little suspicious looking to me

But to the OP - no. It serves a purpose. It may need some adjustments because I wonder how accurate it still is at times, but getting rid of the electoral college isn't the answer.
__________________
Heatware

CO2 is evil. Stop breathing

"I have never understood why it is greed to want to keep the money that you've earned, but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." - Thomas Sowell
SparkyJJO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 01:24 AM   #19
Farang
Lifer
 
Farang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Seattle
Posts: 10,922
Default

I might support proportional electoral allocation, I'd have to see arguments for/against. Although a national popular vote makes sense, with our 50/50 electorate it would eventually create a nightmare recount. The legal battles that would ensue, there is no way they'd be resolved before inauguration.
__________________
You can push them out of a plane, you can march them off a cliff, you can send 'em off to die on some godforsaken rock, but for some reason you can't slap 'em
Farang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 01:31 AM   #20
Jaskalas
Lifer
 
Jaskalas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 18,726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SparkyJJO View Post
But to the OP - no. It serves a purpose.
Can you explain what that purpose is?
__________________
"because... you know... the Cold War has been over for 20 years."
-President Obama, 2012 debate.
Jaskalas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 05:41 AM   #21
SearchMaster
Diamond Member
 
SearchMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: :noitacoL
Posts: 6,434
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaskalas View Post
Can you explain what that purpose is?
So that the campaign process didn't consist of pandering to CA, TX, NY, and FL?
SearchMaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:24 AM   #22
Hayabusa Rider
Elite Member
 
Hayabusa Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Posts: 38,445
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaskalas View Post
I've been wondering about the electoral vote.

At first I had presumed it was in place to balance out state representation the way the Senate does. But of course the big states like CA, TX, and NY all have HUGE portions tied to their population. So the EC is a representation of the popular vote and blows my previous assumption out of the water.

So it's really just a per-state winner take all. Which creates some really stupid campaigning...

I need to be convinced what its purpose is again. I've lost sight of what it's good for.
As set up there is no winner take all, but neither was it prohibited. Over time parties tend to dominate in many states. The paramount function of any power based organization is to obtain and keep control. Consequently, it is in the best interest of a controlling party to have a winner take all system, not a true reflection of the vote of it's citizens. Note my state, NY. It's always blue, but thats not true of its people. This is where we go out of our way to suppress diversity. In any winner take all states, those who select a candidate who loses by even one vote are effectively disenfranchised at the national level and the winning party eliminates the contribution of those who didn't want it. A solution would be elimination of winner take all, based on the fact that it violates equal protection by eliminating ones vote at the national level. I'm not sure how to properly formulate this in legal language, but it's arguably true.
Hayabusa Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:36 AM   #23
Agent11
Diamond Member
 
Agent11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Oregon
Posts: 3,535
Default

It may not be perfect but the system we have now is just as good as any alternatives and has the benefit of being familiar.
__________________
-11
Agent11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 06:56 AM   #24
randomrogue
Diamond Member
 
randomrogue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 5,462
Default

The EC makes sense. If it doesn't you just need to read up on it a bit more.

If that doesn't work then look at the extremes for both a popular vote election and an EC election. They're both pretty terrible if you look at it from the extremes but the EC is better.
randomrogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:05 AM   #25
pcgeek11
Diamond Member
 
pcgeek11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 5,884
Default

The EC need to be gone, regardless of who won it should be by popular vote.
__________________
pcgeek11

How to annoy a liberal: Work Hard and be Happy. In the words of John Smith who saved the Jamestown settlement: Those that don't work; will not eat. We need to learn from history.
pcgeek11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:58 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.