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Old 11-08-2012, 11:09 AM   #26
highend
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkaign View Post
As you encode/compress/etc, I'd recommend putting your $$ into a 2600K/2700K instead of 3570K. If you have a Micro Center around it will be very doable. Performance between both 2500K vs. 3570K and 2600K vs. 3770K is super close, and it's less of a crap-shoot to get a good stable OC out of a Sandy Bridge chip than an Ivy Bridge chip.

Anyway, SB is cheaper, so you could conceivably get a 2600K for about the same price you're thinking of for that 3570K. The HT will help you given your list of uses. Also there are tons of used SB's out there from people who swapped them to Ivy.

Ivy is the most underwhelming CPU release from Intel in a looooong time. It's not bad, it's just not really any better than SB for the most part, and even a step back in mfg quality. I've installed dozens of Ivys. Some have been great, some have been mediocre, some have been terrible (the worst was an unstable-at-stock 3770K).

About the only reasons to definitely go Ivy :

notebook (lack of IHS on those models alleviates a lot of problems)

delidding

going to use multiple GTX690 or 7970 X2s (PCI-Express 3.0 vs. 2.0 is moot for the most part, 0-2% performance gain, but I could see dual 690s or 7970 X2s widening that gap possibly).
Compressing, encoding, etc., isn't my priority, as I've mentioned. When I do that, I read or write, or watch movies, etc., things that I'd be doing anyway. It isn't worth sacrificing frame rates for that, even if it's 5FPS, from 60 to 55. And I don't know what's a Micro Center.

Actually it's not cheaper, 2500K is $2 cheaper than 3570K. I'm not going to pay for used tech unless I'd get the same 3 year warranty. I couldn't afford a CPU replacement in case it'd burn and I am NOT willing to take that risk.

I am also unsure what is "mfg."

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Originally Posted by guskline View Post
Buy the Intel Performance tuning plan for $25. Buy the 3770k (or as Arkaign suggested 2600k/2700k) and overclock it using Intel's Overclock software. You should be set.
It's $140 difference between 3570K and 3770K, so I am settling on either 3470, 3570 or 3570K.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:24 AM   #27
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It wouldn't be 5FPS (60FPS to 55FPS) going from IB to SB, that's insanely huge. At the same clocks, it'd be more like 59.6FPS vs. 60.1FPS or something of that nature. As a matter of fact, an average SB overclock of 4.5Ghz-4.8Ghz will make things as fast or faster than most IB overclocks. If your 3570K stalls at 4.2Ghz without excessive volts, but your 2500K hits 4.6Ghz with fairly low volts, you're going to have a faster system with that 2500K.

Also where on earth are you getting your prices?

Micro Center is a retailer. The 2500K is $159, the 3570K is $169 (as of a week or two ago), etc.

mfg = manufacturing. Ivy Bridge manufacturing quality is extremely variable. Some are fantastic, some are terrible, most are pretty mediocre. They changed the solder-mounted IHS system for a much less robust system with questionable TIM. See the delidding thread, Intel basically caused a ~20C rise in temps in some cases (overclocking) by cheaping out on this. Delidded (no warranty of course) Ivy Bridge can overclock much better than an average stock Ivy Bridge.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:31 AM   #28
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The de-lidding thread on Ivy :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261855

Courtesy of the extremely valuable member IdontCare (IDC as he's known here usually).
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:41 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkaign View Post
It wouldn't be 5FPS (60FPS to 55FPS) going from IB to SB, that's insanely huge. At the same clocks, it'd be more like 59.6FPS vs. 60.1FPS or something of that nature. As a matter of fact, an average SB overclock of 4.5Ghz-4.8Ghz will make things as fast or faster than most IB overclocks. If your 3570K stalls at 4.2Ghz without excessive volts, but your 2500K hits 4.6Ghz with fairly low volts, you're going to have a faster system with that 2500K.

Also where on earth are you getting your prices?

Micro Center is a retailer. The 2500K is $159, the 3570K is $169 (as of a week or two ago), etc.

mfg = manufacturing. Ivy Bridge manufacturing quality is extremely variable. Some are fantastic, some are terrible, most are pretty mediocre. They changed the solder-mounted IHS system for a much less robust system with questionable TIM. See the delidding thread, Intel basically caused a ~20C rise in temps in some cases (overclocking) by cheaping out on this. Delidded (no warranty of course) Ivy Bridge can overclock much better than an average stock Ivy Bridge.
I don't live in the US, CA, UK, prices here are higher. The prices I posted are the CHEAPEST available, other stores offer even costlier CPUs.

Anyway, regarding overclocking, I would still like to clarify everything. I've posted the things I want clarified, however didn't an a "sure" answer yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkaign View Post
The de-lidding thread on Ivy :

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2261855

Courtesy of the extremely valuable member IdontCare (IDC as he's known here usually).
I'm not going to do it, but I'm definitely gonna read it for the sake of curiosity. Thanks!
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:44 AM   #30
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What about being very selective about when you overclock? Just leave the chip at stock speeds all the time, and then when you want a "boost" you can overclock.

Also, you mentioned lasting 5 yrs, well, why not just leave the chip at stock speeds for the first 2 years, then do a tiny overclock for the 3rd year to get you used to the idea, and then go with a crazy huge overclock for years 4 and 5? that way, if you do blow up the chip at the 4.5 year mark, you are almost ready to upgrade anyway?

I know personally that I tend to mentally decide that I'm "ripe" for an upgrade, even though I continue to use my old system. It's like flipping a mental switch - once you are ripe for upgrade and flip that switch, you can totally abuse your hardware and even try to break it with aggressive overclocking, because if you break it, that's just another step on the way to upgrading, and easier to justify the cost to your spouse. "It broke, I need a new one."

But also think about your past behavior - how long did you hold on to your chip before upgrading?

Also, even when I follow this routine, I've never had a CPU fail on me. I was very unforgiving but the CPU was stronger...
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:51 AM   #31
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What about being very selective about when you overclock? Just leave the chip at stock speeds all the time, and then when you want a "boost" you can overclock.

Also, you mentioned lasting 5 yrs, well, why not just leave the chip at stock speeds for the first 2 years, then do a tiny overclock for the 3rd year to get you used to the idea, and then go with a crazy huge overclock for years 4 and 5? that way, if you do blow up the chip at the 4.5 year mark, you are almost ready to upgrade anyway?

I know personally that I tend to mentally decide that I'm "ripe" for an upgrade, even though I continue to use my old system. It's like flipping a mental switch - once you are ripe for upgrade and flip that switch, you can totally abuse your hardware and even try to break it with aggressive overclocking, because if you break it, that's just another step on the way to upgrading, and easier to justify the cost to your spouse. "It broke, I need a new one."

But also think about your past behavior - how long did you hold on to your chip before upgrading?

Also, even when I follow this routine, I've never had a CPU fail on me. I was very unforgiving but the CPU was stronger...
That won't work, unless I could overclock it without a restart. And even then, it would get very annoying overclocking and declocking every half an hour... I don't think it'd be good for the CPU too.

No, I don't have that mentality, I can't - it depends on me saving money, and I save everything I can to be able to afford a new computer.

My past behavior was 6 years for both PCs without any overclocking. 6 years is about the period of time I need to save enough money for a new one of high-average quality PC.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:02 PM   #32
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That won't work, unless I could overclock it without a restart. And even then, it would get very annoying overclocking and declocking every half an hour... I don't think it'd be good for the CPU too.

No, I don't have that mentality, I can't - it depends on me saving money, and I save everything I can to be able to afford a new computer.

My past behavior was 6 years for both PCs without any overclocking. 6 years is about the period of time I need to save enough money for a new one of high-average quality PC.
Most mobos, such as the decent Asus and AsRock models, have utilities that let you control clocks speed from within windows.

Also, CPUs regularly adjust automatically for clock speed and voltage anyway, it's not bad for it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:14 PM   #33
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Most mobos, such as the decent Asus and AsRock models, have utilities that let you control clocks speed from within windows.

Also, CPUs regularly adjust automatically for clock speed and voltage anyway, it's not bad for it.
That doesn't sound half-bad. But I still do game for 6-18h a day for the most part. Some days I do other stuff as mentioned earlier, some days I game. So it would be overclocked for the most part anyway.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:50 PM   #34
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One further idea for consideration - is there a used market in your country? There are some unbelievable deals available on various outlets here in the USA - eBay, Craigslist - you can sometimes find components (or entire systems) 40-50% or more off retail for relatively recent gear. If there are such markets for used components available to you, buy used for cheaper and plan to upgrade more often.

If that is simply not an option, spend a little more on a good cooling system, keep your OC moderate and you'll be fine.

EDIT: As an afterthought - I don't know what your current setup is like or how badly you need to upgrade. But Haswell is scheduled to launch in about six months, it honestly might be worth waiting until then before buying. Haswell will have a whole slew of new features built in that are not available on today's chips. And although it might take a couple of years for those features to be implemented, if you keep your setup for 6 years you might seriously be wishing for those features well before you upgrade next time.
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:02 AM   #35
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I'm not an average Joe... I do video recording, video conversion, image editing, gaming, compilation works, sound-related works, uploading, compressing, decompressing, watch 1080p movies, and probably more stuff that I didn't think of right this moment. I do that all day, for over 12 hours usually.

My main priority for the resource utilization, however, is still gaming rather than lower time of encoding, etc..
Then id stick to default voltage overclocking and only go one step over. If u get stuck at 4ghz you shouldnt need much extra voltage at all to reach 4.2 to 4.3 (on sandy anyway). Cpus are definitely not the tanks they used to be but with the lack of competition intel has been conservative with clocks.
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Old 11-09-2012, 04:30 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Denithor View Post
One further idea for consideration - is there a used market in your country? There are some unbelievable deals available on various outlets here in the USA - eBay, Craigslist - you can sometimes find components (or entire systems) 40-50% or more off retail for relatively recent gear. If there are such markets for used components available to you, buy used for cheaper and plan to upgrade more often.

If that is simply not an option, spend a little more on a good cooling system, keep your OC moderate and you'll be fine.

EDIT: As an afterthought - I don't know what your current setup is like or how badly you need to upgrade. But Haswell is scheduled to launch in about six months, it honestly might be worth waiting until then before buying. Haswell will have a whole slew of new features built in that are not available on today's chips. And although it might take a couple of years for those features to be implemented, if you keep your setup for 6 years you might seriously be wishing for those features well before you upgrade next time.
No, unfortunately that is not an option here.

As for Haswell, I sense that it may get delayed to the end of 2013, and anyway, reviews won't show up instantly. So that would be a bit more than 6 months. My current system is 6 years old, so I need an upgrade pretty badly, unfortunately.

I appreciate the suggestions.

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Then id stick to default voltage overclocking and only go one step over. If u get stuck at 4ghz you shouldnt need much extra voltage at all to reach 4.2 to 4.3 (on sandy anyway). Cpus are definitely not the tanks they used to be but with the lack of competition intel has been conservative with clocks.
I think it can 4.2Ghz can be reached with no extra voltage.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:06 AM   #37
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Well, that pretty much sucks because IB is the end of the line for socket 1155. So you won't even be able to upgrade just your cpu in 2-3 years to a more powerful chip (which would be an option if you waited for Haswell).

Also, reviews really do show up pretty much instantly, all the review sites have the new chips in-house for testing well in advance of the launch date and are prevented from releasing their results by NDA with Intel. The info comes out usually just before launch (helps to hype things up and get sales moving).

EDIT: What kind of system do you have currently? CPU/GPU/RAM/PSU are the major parts of interest. Do you have an SSD already or not? Perhaps we could suggest some relatively minor upgrades that would help you limp along until Haswell comes out.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:27 AM   #38
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2500k here on a cheap model P67 board since launch, running at 1.4v 24/7 @ 4.5 GHz

Never a hiccup.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:47 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denithor View Post
Well, that pretty much sucks because IB is the end of the line for socket 1155. So you won't even be able to upgrade just your cpu in 2-3 years to a more powerful chip (which would be an option if you waited for Haswell).

Also, reviews really do show up pretty much instantly, all the review sites have the new chips in-house for testing well in advance of the launch date and are prevented from releasing their results by NDA with Intel. The info comes out usually just before launch (helps to hype things up and get sales moving).

EDIT: What kind of system do you have currently? CPU/GPU/RAM/PSU are the major parts of interest. Do you have an SSD already or not? Perhaps we could suggest some relatively minor upgrades that would help you limp along until Haswell comes out.
Currently I have 2GB of memory, Athlon 5000+ CPU, 7600GT video card, no SSD, 500W average (low-high quality) PSU bought about a year ago, maybe a bit more.
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Old 11-09-2012, 08:52 AM   #40
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cant find the thread right now, but a few months back someone posted some statistics on datacorruption vs overclocks ... interresting read, wish i'd bookmarked/saved it ..
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