Go Back   AnandTech Forums > Consumer Electronics > Mobile Devices & Gadgets

Forums
· Hardware and Technology
· CPUs and Overclocking
· Motherboards
· Video Cards and Graphics
· Memory and Storage
· Power Supplies
· Cases & Cooling
· SFF, Notebooks, Pre-Built/Barebones PCs
· Networking
· Peripherals
· General Hardware
· Highly Technical
· Computer Help
· Home Theater PCs
· Consumer Electronics
· Digital and Video Cameras
· Mobile Devices & Gadgets
· Audio/Video & Home Theater
· Software
· Software for Windows
· All Things Apple
· *nix Software
· Operating Systems
· Programming
· PC Gaming
· Console Gaming
· Distributed Computing
· Security
· Social
· Off Topic
· Politics and News
· Discussion Club
· Love and Relationships
· The Garage
· Health and Fitness
· Merchandise and Shopping
· For Sale/Trade
· Hot Deals
· Free Stuff
· Contests and Sweepstakes
· Black Friday 2013
· Forum Issues
· Technical Forum Issues
· Personal Forum Issues
· Suggestion Box
· Moderator Resources
· Moderator Discussions
   

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-08-2012, 10:49 AM   #1
runawayprisoner
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,496
Default Did this guy just nail the reason why iPad is so popular?

Stumbled upon this while reading Daring Fireball:

http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/1...ppy_computers/

Quote:
So the sentiment that «entry-level» computers are good enough for casual users is exactly backwards: casual users are the ones that need high-end computers, while proficient users are the ones who can work around the limitations of low-end computers.
Makes a hell of a lot of sense. I think it applies to mobile gadgets (tablets and smartphones) as well.
__________________
Poking through JPSX...
runawayprisoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:06 AM   #2
Eug
Lifer
 
Eug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Posts: 16,582
Default

Nope. I think he's completely wrong.
__________________

OS X & iOS: 27" iMac Core i7 870 | 13" MacBook Pro C2D 2.26 P8400 + SSD | 13" MacBook C2D 2.4 T8300 + SSD | iPad 2
Windows: X3400 Athlon II X3 435 | 11.6" 1810TZ Pentium SU4100 + SSD | Revo R3610 Atom 330 + SSD
Android: RAZR HD | Nexus 7
Eug is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #3
Topweasel
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,397
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runawayprisoner View Post
Stumbled upon this while reading Daring Fireball:

http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/1...ppy_computers/



Makes a hell of a lot of sense. I think it applies to mobile gadgets (tablets and smartphones) as well.
If that was truth Android would be more popular. For the technically inclined its not just performance, but capabilities. The iPad is popular because its cheaper then a laptop, easier to carry around, last longer and both its early release and the popularity of the iPhone means that lots of people are familiar with interface. It's interface is also the easiest (between it and Android) for new users to learn. When selling the device it isn't its overall capability or customizability that wins users over. It's what the device is like for the first few minutes a person plays with it. The better build quality and simpleness of clicking icon and having it run is better for this than Androids non-auto populating home screen where you have to go to another menu and select an app or widget and place it where you want on the desktop.

Tech inclined people can make due with what they have available, but without other circumstances they are less likely to spend money on a device that they feel they can do less with in comparison to another. That's why even though there could and probably a strong market for Windows RT devices, people in this forum to a strong level have called it a stop gap and completely pointless.
__________________
Nothing funny yet but keep reading maybe eventually.
Topweasel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #4
openwheel
Golden Member
 
openwheel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,017
Default

Partially true. A lot of people buy Apples and pay for their services because they are tired of asking their "computer savvy" friend/family member to "fix" their malware issue. I know many who used to ask others to "build" them computers, but have migrated entirely to the Apple eco system.

Many of them take their iPads on trips and double as their cameras. Many use iPads as "laptops" because they only check facebook/tweeter/instagram and emails. Their college bound kid can not type whatsoever has a Macbook pro. I even know one film school dropout who thinks buying a Macbook pro will jump start his filming career even though he sells phones for a living. Worst of them all, I hate seeing douche lords who camp around Starbucks with their Macbook Pro, iPhone, Beats Studio, $180 jeans, RayBans and pretend to be working.

However, there are lots of computer savvy people willing to over spend on Apple simply because they have good products. The Macbook Air is simply amazing.

Last edited by openwheel; 11-08-2012 at 11:22 AM.
openwheel is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 11:17 AM   #5
aaksheytalwar
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,116
Default

He is an idiot. How can you even side with him?
__________________
3770k @ 4.3 with H100i, Asus Z77 Deluxe, Samsung 30nm 4x4gb ddr3 @ 1866 9-9-9-28 1T, MSI R9 290 Gaming 4G, Coolermaster Silent Pro Hybrid 1300 watts, Crucial M4 512gb, 3x Seagate 7200.14 3TB each
aaksheytalwar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #6
MrX8503
Diamond Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,529
Default

I'm not sure if that applies to mobile, but it makes sense for desktops.

I think the reason why iOS devices are popular is because everyone knows the OS. It's an OS that a casual user can pick up quickly.

What tech people see as limitations is probably convenience for the average user.
MrX8503 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 01:04 PM   #7
OBLAMA2009
Diamond Member
 
OBLAMA2009's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 5,762
Default

its pretty simple why ipad is popular: its simple and easy to use and the hardware and software are high quality enough that it works the way its supposed to. for the 90% of people that arent interested in technology, its the best choice. android has three button so its three times as hard to use

Last edited by OBLAMA2009; 11-08-2012 at 01:28 PM.
OBLAMA2009 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 01:10 PM   #8
Oyeve
Lifer
 
Oyeve's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: NYC
Posts: 16,437
Default

Hes an idiot and wrong.


This could almost be considered trolling, Oyeve. Could you please elaborate?
Moderator PM
__________________
My Heat

Last edited by pm; 11-09-2012 at 06:40 PM.
Oyeve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 02:47 PM   #9
Aikouka
Lifer
 
Aikouka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 23,791
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OBLAMA2009 View Post
its pretty simple why ipad is popular: its simple and easy to use and the hardware and software are high quality enough that it works the way its supposed to. for the 90% of people that arent interested in technology, its the best choice. android has three button so its three times as hard to use
I can't really disagree. Frankly, I like how I can just flip the cover up and go to town on the device. On my Android tablet, I have to lift it up (Transformer + Dock), hit the power button, hit the lock button, and then go to town. Honestly, it's too much work. I just want it to open as soon as I lift up the tablet.
Aikouka is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 03:06 PM   #10
Ns1
Lifer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: A Warm Place
Posts: 40,237
Default

I think some of you guys are inaccurately equating low end computer vs high end computer as PC vs Apple.

High end PC's aren't exactly cheap either.
__________________
Racing KT to NoLifer...a true race to the bottom.
Ns1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 03:19 PM   #11
Munky
Diamond Member
 
Munky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 9,370
Default

Nope, he just takes a familiar concept, reverses it, and tries to pass it off as some profound truth. If there's one thing I know about proficient "power users" is that they are unwilling to settle or put up with crap limitations from their SW and HW. And it's not just aimed at Apple. See all the Windows 8 hate threads for more examples.
__________________
Core i7 @ 3.2-3.8 / AMD 6950 / 12GB DDR3 1600 / Asus Xonar D2 / Samsung 275t / Logitech z5500
Munky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 03:23 PM   #12
Mopetar
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,756
Default

No, he's wrong. Just because power users can work with more limited hardware doesn't always mean that they want to.

The reason the iPad is so popular is because it doesn't throw a lot of extra stuff at casual users. Everything is dead simple and pretty hard to screw up. Contrast this with any PC operating system where you can easily screw up your entire system by doing something you shouldn't. There are other reasons beyond that, but at the core is that Apple made something so ridiculously easy to use and hard to screw up that non-technical people don't have to worry about it. They've removed just about everything about traditional computers that would confuse the hell out of non-technical people.
Mopetar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 03:27 PM   #13
poofyhairguy
Diamond Member
 
poofyhairguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 5,930
Default

A friend of mine once said: "An iPad gives regular people the power of the Gods, but without forcing them to do the work to respect that power."

He of course was biased against the iPad, but his point I think is correct- iPads give regular users the ability to do 70% of computing tasks (editing photos, browsing the web, etc.) with about 10% of the learning curve.

Heck, if someone gets a 3G iPad they don't even have to understand how an ISP works which is something I learned many people don't understand when I worked for Dell.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaap View Post
I want [my phone's] limits to only be what's not technically possible, not what some company/guru has decided I shouldn't be able to do.
poofyhairguy is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 04:47 PM   #14
CVSiN
Diamond Member
 
CVSiN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Houston Texas
Posts: 9,308
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by runawayprisoner View Post
Stumbled upon this while reading Daring Fireball:

http://ignorethecode.net/blog/2012/1...ppy_computers/



Makes a hell of a lot of sense. I think it applies to mobile gadgets (tablets and smartphones) as well.
Um nice crack he is smoking..
the only reason the Apple is so successful was because of the Ipod and the OS that is so locked down not even a caveman baby could mess it up..
__________________
Originally posted by: AnandTech Moderator
Missing unwritten rules are a bannable offense!

"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful."
- Seneca (4 b.c.- 65 a.d.)





CVSiN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #15
soccerballtux
Diamond Member
 
soccerballtux's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,761
Default

underwhelming sorry
__________________
HOW TO nested quote
Install this into Firefox then click this, then click "quote" as usual, then click "Nested Quote" to the right of the title bar.
4.0Ghz&2.6Ghz-CPU-NB Ph2-965BE || GA790X-UD4P 8GB DDR800 || Gigabyte GTX670 || Soyo 24" PMVA Heatware
soccerballtux is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:00 PM   #16
Nintendesert
Diamond Member
 
Nintendesert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: LOLorado.
Posts: 7,761
Default

No, the iPad is so popular because Middle and Poor America is caught up in being trendy. They watch all these reality shows and turn their brains off. They then turn around and caught up in being trendy are fooled into thinking they NEED these iGadgets and keep giving a larger and larger % of their income to the already super-rich. Continually shrinking their wealth while caught up in the trend-treadmill.
__________________
TFP4Life!
Nintendesert is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 05:21 PM   #17
Zaap
Diamond Member
 
Zaap's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,624
Default

No.

Sorry, but every time I've seen someone think they are doing 'high end' work on an iPad or similar portable device (IE: ACTUAL photo-retouching, ACTUAL video editing, ACTUAL audio mixing/recording, ACTUAL high-end 3D graphics, artwork, compositing, compiling, number cruntching etc.) it's been a bunch of amateur iCrap compared to those *ACTUAL* tasks done right on proper equipment.

For the YouTube/Twitter/FaceBook 'iProfessional' crowd, sure, so-called proficient users can use just an iPad. For the box-office/theatre/chart-topping/photography/recording/video/film etc. industries of the real world, professionals use high end equipment to do things right. (Granted, there's a lot the iPad can help with in an orbiting PDA type function, but not doing the actual heavy lifting.)
__________________
Z68X-UD3H-B3 | 2600K | 16GB 1600 | HD6870 1GB | OSX 10.9.2 + Win 7 x64

Last edited by Zaap; 11-08-2012 at 05:23 PM.
Zaap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-08-2012, 06:55 PM   #18
runawayprisoner
Platinum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,496
Default

I think some of you are reading it backwards...

The way I understand it, he's basically saying the general populace is not knowledgeable enough to reach for more high-end gadgets, so they default to something that's cheap and gets the job done. In this case, iPad. There's no denying the iPad is cheaper than some laptops in the midrange. This position used to be dominated by netbooks.

However, what general users don't realize is that the cheap stuff (namely, iPad) is limited, and when they hit that limitation, they'd just groan and pass it off as a general notion that no other computer would do it for them.

So they give up before trying out more expensive laptops or tablet (Windows 8)

As Apple introduces a new iPad with better graphics, etc... people flock to buy it again because they "think" it's not limited as the last one. Then they bump into the limitations again, and the cycle repeats.

Basically, I think the story paints the iPad as the low-end popular option that everyone picks. Not as the "high-end" option that advanced users would pick. Not that the iPad is the "high-end" option that everyone "needs".

Now, the same logic can also arguably been applied to the Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire crowd. In which case, it also explains why they sell so well.

And before any of you says the Nexus 7 can do this and that, I'm sure we can all agree that a laptop can do way more than a Nexus 7 can.
__________________
Poking through JPSX...

Last edited by runawayprisoner; 11-08-2012 at 06:58 PM.
runawayprisoner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:05 AM   #19
TheStu
Moderator
Mobile Devices & Gadgets
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Cumberland, PA
Posts: 11,028
Default

Did none of you actually read the article? The word iPad is never mentioned.

I heard a similar argument to this a few years back, advocating why the older generations really need faster internet. Those of us that grew up with it can recognize what is going on, but for an older generation, they may view the computer at large as a fancy TV (I am operating on my best recollection of an argument posited by some guy like 5 years ago, bear with me if I simplify things) and the internet as the channels on it. When you are using a TV you want and expect the channels to change immediately (this is also an argument against crummy set top boxes that suck), whereas on the internet, you change pages and it takes a while.

This guy's argument seems to be in the same direction, that a more casual or less knowledgeable user should have the fastest, most responsive machine possible, because although everyone should have immediate access to everything, the more technical amongst us, are better equipped to understand WHY the machine is slow, and therefore more willing to accept it, and more able to correct it. The less knowledgeable person is just going to know that it is slow, and a piece of crap.

I don't see this as an argument either for or against the iPad, I see it as an argument for putting SSDs into laptops as standard, and not compromising on $400 crapboxes at Best Buy.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfenn View Post
The 6770M can play Crysis 2, for suitably small values of play
TheStu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 07:30 AM   #20
BrightCandle
Diamond Member
 
BrightCandle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 3,681
Default

Being a power user myself I constantly complain about how slow my computer is. I automate a lot of things so I don't repeat doing them so the machine takes up the task of executing the same activity over and over. Of course the more I do that the slower my "check everything" gets. With fast enough hardware I can run multiple long tasks in the background and continue working for a while, but with slower hardware I just can't. I find slow hardware deeply frustrating and when a company provides a 5 year old laptop a little piece of me dies and then I start working out how to upgrade it so its acceptable.

This guy just couldn't be more wrong, which suggests he is far from being an expert computer user, he has never actually done a task which is totally limited by the hardware. I am limited by my hardware every day, I need about 1000x more speed before my current activities are not an issue anymore.
__________________
i7 3930k @4.4, 2xMSI GTX 680, 16GB Corsair 2133 RAM, Crucial m4 500GB, Soundblaster Z
Custom watercooled by 2x MCR 320 and 1 MCR 480
Zowie Evo CL EC2, Corsair K70, Benq XL2411T
BrightCandle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:00 AM   #21
TheStu
Moderator
Mobile Devices & Gadgets
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Cumberland, PA
Posts: 11,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrightCandle View Post
Being a power user myself I constantly complain about how slow my computer is. I automate a lot of things so I don't repeat doing them so the machine takes up the task of executing the same activity over and over. Of course the more I do that the slower my "check everything" gets. With fast enough hardware I can run multiple long tasks in the background and continue working for a while, but with slower hardware I just can't. I find slow hardware deeply frustrating and when a company provides a 5 year old laptop a little piece of me dies and then I start working out how to upgrade it so its acceptable.

This guy just couldn't be more wrong, which suggests he is far from being an expert computer user, he has never actually done a task which is totally limited by the hardware. I am limited by my hardware every day, I need about 1000x more speed before my current activities are not an issue anymore.
My understanding of the guy's point was that the entry level user, the casual user, the less knowledgeable, less technical user NEEDS, NEEDS, NEEDS as fast of a computer as you can give them because they are not going to do, or understand, any of the things that need to be done to deal with the limitations. You said it yourself, you work out how to upgrade the system to make it faster... a regular user isn't going to do that!

You just said that you need 1000x more speed than you currently have. Even allowing for hyperbole and overshooting by 2 orders of magnitude, that still puts as at 10x more power. Here is my, and (I think) the author's point:

A: You are automating tasks, something that a casual user won't do
B: You are willing and able to upgrade the system
C: You are able to understand the limitations of the system and how to work with them

A casual user cannot. In the same way that a master craftsman can do more with just a hammer and saw than most people can with an entire workshop at their disposal, the so-called 'expert computer users' can do more with a netbook than your average person could do with a high end rig.

His point isn't that casual users should all have quad cores and 'expert users' should have netbooks. His point is that no one should be buying cheap low-end pieces of crap ESPECIALLY not the people that those low-end pieces of crap are targeting. A knowledgeable computer user knows what they are getting into when they buy a $199 netbook. They know that it is going to be slow, and underpowered, and barely good enough for listening to music and the occasional browsing of the web, forget about HD video or gaming, or even Facebook games.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfenn View Post
The 6770M can play Crysis 2, for suitably small values of play
TheStu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:01 AM   #22
shortylickens
No Lifer
 
shortylickens's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 52,168
Default

Umm, that was utterly stupid and wrong.
__________________
The Cute:


http://imgur.com/gallery/eWCGT
shortylickens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:23 AM   #23
Red Storm
Lifer
 
Red Storm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,726
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortylickens View Post
Umm, that was utterly stupid and wrong.
This. It's the complete opposite.
__________________
Heatware
Red Storm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:41 AM   #24
TheStu
Moderator
Mobile Devices & Gadgets
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: New Cumberland, PA
Posts: 11,028
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shortylickens View Post
Umm, that was utterly stupid and wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Storm View Post
This. It's the complete opposite.
What do you guys take his point to be? Because either everyone else is reading something different than I am, or I am misunderstanding something. It feels like how people are interpretting it is:

Low end users should get quad cores with SSDs
Everyone else HAS to use a 3 year old netbook

Which is not how I take his point at all, my understanding is that he is saying:

Low end users should get quad cores with SSDs
Everyone else should too, but if they can't have that, at least they know how to deal.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfenn View Post
The 6770M can play Crysis 2, for suitably small values of play
TheStu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2012, 08:45 AM   #25
Red Storm
Lifer
 
Red Storm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Washington DC
Posts: 10,726
Default

The majority of people are not proficient users, and high end hardware does not sell as much as low/mid range. Is the OP insinuating that the iPad is a high end computer bought mostly by technical people?
__________________
Heatware
Red Storm is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:47 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.