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Old 11-08-2012, 10:05 AM   #26
quest55720
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Originally Posted by rudder View Post
This is what most people don't want to believe. But the government pushes everyone to go to college... dumb down standards, easy money for tuition, etc. So now colleges need an infrastructure in place to handle 15,000- 20,000+ students. Not only just class space but nice amenities like recreation centers and such. And instead of a 4 year degree it takes 5 because most students just out of high school spend the first year in remedial classes.

The ones laughing at all this are the plumbers earning $40/hour.
You mean the administrators and professors who are making 6 figures are the ones laughing all the way to the bank. A professor who once reaches tenor can do what they want and never get fired and make 6 figures to teach 1 class.

The rest is spot on the cheap student loans and increasing aid have made the price of college go up. People who run colleges are not dumb they know the government will give more aid and loans every years to they can jack up prices.

Stossel had a great show on this were it just showed how disgusting the whole system is. Colleges spending millions on state of the art gym and rec centers to attract students. Instead of spending that money on education.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBDRrKIMHGo

Instead of saying everyone needs to go to college they need to push more people to trade schools. Also anyone who did not do a year or 2 at a community college to get generals done has no right to bitch.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:06 AM   #27
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This should be approached from two angles:

1) Students need to learn to go to community colleges and state schools to cut down on costs. They also need to learn that a degree in basket weaving isn't going to get them a job.

2) The government needs to stop guaranteeing and subsidizing student loans.

Last edited by bignateyk; 11-08-2012 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #28
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Education should be free like any other civilized country. Used to be near it. My dad went to UCLA in 1960s FREE. I went to calpoly slo for ~$150 a quarter in the 1990s. Had no student loan. A part time job at a local hardware store paid all my bills in additon I owned a house and had 2-3 roommate pay mortgage. I made money going to school. Today? Forgetabout it. My son will go to college next year even public UC system is ~15K a year.

All student loans should be forgiven and new higher education spending so kids are not chained to debt for life out of starting gate.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:59 AM   #29
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Education should be free like any other civilized country. Used to be near it. My dad went to UCLA in 1960s FREE. I went to calpoly slo for ~$150 a quarter in the 1990s. Had no student loan. A part time job at a local hardware store paid all my bills in additon I owned a house and had 2-3 roommate pay mortgage. I made money going to school. Today? Forgetabout it. My son will go to college next year even public UC system is ~15K a year.

All student loans should be forgiven and new higher education spending so kids are not chained to debt for life out of starting gate.
Tax payers paid for it, right?

Student loans should not be forgiven. Parents/students need to get a clue about the cost/benefit of the degree they're choosing and if the kid should be in college anyway.

In, SC, if the kid maintains a 3.0, they can get state scholarships to cover most, if not all, of the costs for tech school. Lottery $$ at work.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:12 AM   #30
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The Republican narrative that anyone who gets an education and works hard will have it made in America is laughed at by these students. What they see is years of loan repayments before they can think of buying a new car or a house.
Seems like the Republican realize that there is value in education and the Democratic liberal (look in the mirror there) does not know how to determine cost benefit/ROI.

Spending $100K to get a degree in which there is no demand makes sense if you have the 100K to toss away.

Spending $100K to get a degree such that you can pay it off in 5-10 years is much smarter.

Even more is to give up the social college life for the first two years and decide if college is right for you and is the field viable that you are interested in.

The quality of a liberal arts education is no different at an IVY league school vs a state university vs a community college for the first to years.

The quality of an engineering education for the first two years will be the same at any decent school you go to. MIT or UMass will give you the needed groundwork in those two years.

The local CC will give you all the liberal arts side of an engineering degree to cut down those costs more.

May not be as glamorous, but the name of the school when you get the degree does not care about the $$ behind it.

Loans to take out for such is a waste; If you can not afford the expensive first couple of years; why go into debt for such.

so the game changer is the fact that people will need to wise up and demand value for their educational costs and then determine the value for the result.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:16 AM   #31
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Stop going to those hugely expensive private colleges, utilize community colleges, and stay away from the arts unless you are going just to get a piece of paper.m
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:19 AM   #32
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Education should be free like any other civilized country. Used to be near it. My dad went to UCLA in 1960s FREE. I went to calpoly slo for ~$150 a quarter in the 1990s. Had no student loan. A part time job at a local hardware store paid all my bills in additon I owned a house and had 2-3 roommate pay mortgage. I made money going to school. Today? Forgetabout it. My son will go to college next year even public UC system is ~15K a year.

All student loans should be forgiven and new higher education spending so kids are not chained to debt for life out of starting gate.
You are asking to reward bad behavior and judgement.

but not at the same time reward those that used good judgement.

Who is going to pick up the bill for the defaulted loans?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:33 AM   #33
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Healthcare and education should be free. We should all be picking up the tab so that we have a healthier and more educated population.

Just simply cap enrollment to those that can actually get a job. There is no need for a million art literature majors.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:35 AM   #34
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Maybe pass legislation that unemployment benefits for recent grads must be enough to service their student loan debt? And minimum wage for recent grads must be enough to service their student loan debt?

Maybe the answer lies on the wage side of things and not "stopping people from getting degrees in basket weaving". Maybe basket weavers can actually pay enough to service the debt, a novel idea huh?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:36 AM   #35
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Healthcare and education should be free. We should all be picking up the tab so that we have a healthier and more educated population.

Just simply cap enrollment to those that can actually get a job. There is no need for a million art literature majors.
But then you're ostracizing a lot of liberal arts. I personally don't give a crap but many do. "I paid my taxes and my kid can't get his art appreciation degree." Let 'em pay for it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:38 AM   #36
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Healthcare and education should be free. We should all be picking up the tab so that we have a healthier and more educated population.

Just simply cap enrollment to those that can actually get a job. There is no need for a million art literature majors.
Why not let everybody make a million dollars, but just cap employment in those jobs before we run out of money.

Oh did I just make an argument against minimum wage, oh noes the facade is crumbling!
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:43 AM   #37
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You are asking to reward bad behavior and judgement.

but not at the same time reward those that used good judgement.

Who is going to pick up the bill for the defaulted loans?
China of course. Same ppl paying for bank bailouts and wars bad judgement. And in future tax those that have it and benefit from an educated population. Why should xyz corp get a free ride of good educated employees just cuz they stationed in USA? Move to haiti for your writers accountants and engineers if you dont like it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:44 AM   #38
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Maybe pass legislation that unemployment benefits for recent grads must be enough to service their student loan debt? And minimum wage for recent grads must be enough to service their student loan debt?

Maybe the answer lies on the wage side of things and not "stopping people from getting degrees in basket weaving". Maybe basket weavers can actually pay enough to service the debt, a novel idea huh?
Who is going to pay unrealistic rates that the market does not support.
why should these people be rewarded with higher unemployment benefit rates than someone that has a different degree or has worked longer.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:46 AM   #39
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We don't need 300,000 French History Majors. When was the last time you saw an ad for "Philosopher wanted". Keep it within the realm of employment, have job placement programs, internships, and an actual end game.

"Brah, I'm gonna go get a communication degree to get my parents off my back and so I don't have to join the army". Well homeboy has a 2.0 average from high school and a 2.0 in college and is never going to use that education. He's destined to dig ditches. In his case he should do something that fits his aptitude and not get a free education since he's clearly not cut out for it. So you balance jobs, with entrance requirements, and grades.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:49 AM   #40
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Who is going to pay unrealistic rates that the market does not support.
why should these people be rewarded with higher unemployment benefit rates than someone that has a different degree or has worked longer.
In case you haven't noticed, we don't have a market economy. So simply advocating to change the price fixing going on so people's lives aren't miserable being burdened by student debt isn't exactly reinventing the wheel.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:51 AM   #41
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In case you haven't noticed, we don't have a market economy. So simply advocating to change the price fixing going on so people's lives aren't miserable being burdened by student debt isn't exactly reinventing the wheel.
Sorry but people do make a choice to take student debt.

It's no different than buying a car or house. You borrow what you can afford. If you are a 2.0 student getting a $45,000 education in theater art then you better be Harrison Ford.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #42
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Sorry but people do make a choice to take student debt.

It's no different than buying a car or house. You borrow what you can afford. If you are a 2.0 student getting a $45,000 education in theater art then you better be Harrison Ford.
I'm sure you support government subsidized healthcare though for alcoholics, smokers, fat people, all choices that cost other people money instead of it being borne by those making the choices. What makes education any different?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #43
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They need to learn there are other less expensive means to get through the first two years and they don't have to attend expensive colleges. If enough people did this colleges would have no choice but to lower their tuition.
First, community colleges, in California at least, have been hit hard by the budget cuts. Classes have been cut and summer and winter sessions have been eliminated. What should be two years is becoming 2-5 years for people since they are unable to even get into their classes.

Second, the name of your university counts for a lot. It doesnt have to be an expensive private school but you cant go to some random four year school in the middle of no where and expect to get the same attention.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:59 AM   #44
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In case you haven't noticed, we don't have a market economy. So simply advocating to change the price fixing going on so people's lives aren't miserable being burdened by student debt isn't exactly reinventing the wheel.
Where is there not a market economy? Those with the high debt and can not pay it chose a field that has no demand or need to high salaries.

Who is dictating the salaries for a given profession?
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:00 PM   #45
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In the workplace there are very few jobs that give a shit where you got your education.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:04 PM   #46
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Where is there not a market economy? Those with the high debt and can not pay it chose a field that has no demand or need to high salaries.

Who is dictating the salaries for a given profession?
Minimum wage, prevailing wage acts, government intervening in collective bargaining. All of those are anti-market.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:09 PM   #47
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After watching what happened with the banks and housing I'm not in favor of a pure free market.

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I'm sure you support government subsidized healthcare though for alcoholics, smokers, fat people, all choices that cost other people money instead of it being borne by those making the choices. What makes education any different?
Actually I support death panels. Need a triple bypass but ate at McDonalds? Death. Have lung cancer but a smoker? Death. More seriously though I would ban smoking and put a much larger effort into healthier diets by taxing fast food. It's far too easy to choose McDonalds when it costs $1 and is cheaper than anything in the store.

If you look above I have a simply solution so that we don't waste money on education. I am perfectly fine with paying for education that leads to jobs. If you look at countries with government subsidized healthcare and education they are doing better than us.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:17 PM   #48
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In the workplace there are very few jobs that give a shit where you got your education.
Actually I got my job most likely because where I got my education.

Graduated in 2011 as a chemical engineer from the University of Cincinnati.

Found a job Feb 2012, for that position. And 1 of the reasons I was chosen beyond some other candidates is because I went to UC, and the General Manager of the company got his 6 year degree there.

So it does play a bigger role than you think. Though it isn't going to eliminate good job possibilities if you choose a smaller school.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:18 PM   #49
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Maybe pass legislation that unemployment benefits for recent grads must be enough to service their student loan debt? And minimum wage for recent grads must be enough to service their student loan debt?

Maybe the answer lies on the wage side of things and not "stopping people from getting degrees in basket weaving". Maybe basket weavers can actually pay enough to service the debt, a novel idea huh?
Even better idea: let lenders lose their money, so that they will have incentive to loan money out based on the chances of it being paid back, with an appropriate interest rate.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:19 PM   #50
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After watching what happened with the banks and housing I'm not in favor of a pure free market.



Actually I support death panels. Need a triple bypass but ate at McDonalds? Death. Have lung cancer but a smoker? Death. More seriously though I would ban smoking and put a much larger effort into healthier diets by taxing fast food. It's far too easy to choose McDonalds when it costs $1 and is cheaper than anything in the store.

If you look above I have a simply solution so that we don't waste money on education. I am perfectly fine with paying for education that leads to jobs. If you look at countries with government subsidized healthcare and education they are doing better than us.
A) The cheap prices like that are important for families of smaller income. You can't just tax the fuck outta cheap fatty food prices, would cause a whole new issue.

B) Healthier foods are pricier because of how they are manufactored and packaged. And convinence, they normally take longer to make/cook, and todays society is very on the go.
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