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Old 11-08-2012, 07:30 AM   #1
highend
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Default Overclocking & risk

Hello.

First of all, I would like opinions that are based on facts. The facts that aren't based on extreme situations.

Now, how high is the risk when overclocking? And by risk I mean, what if I'm planning to use my computer for the next 5 (literally) years? I'm not talking extreme overclocking, I'm talking like 4.3Ghz for 3570K or 4.8Ghz for 3770K (or whatever is the safe OC without increasing voltage by much and on air).

The reason I'm asking is because I don't know if I should buy an overclockable CPU or not. I know that I could not afford a replacement if it fried within a year, and warranty would be void the second I increase the frequency.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:38 AM   #2
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As long as you don't raise the voltage and don't overheat it it should last 5+ years easy.
I've never killed a cpu by overclocking but I also don't raise the voltage to extremes either.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:41 AM   #3
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Welcome to the forums highend

Quote:
Originally Posted by highend View Post
Hello.

First of all, I would like opinions that are based on facts. The facts that aren't based on extreme situations.

Now, how high is the risk when overclocking? And by risk I mean, what if I'm planning to use my computer for the next 5 (literally) years? I'm not talking extreme overclocking, I'm talking like 4.3Ghz for 3570K or 4.8Ghz for 3770K (or whatever is the safe OC without increasing voltage by much and on air).

The reason I'm asking is because I don't know if I should buy an overclockable CPU or not. I know that I could not afford a replacement if it fried within a year, and warranty would be void the second I increase the frequency.
With Intel CPU's you can spend an extra $25 and buy yourself the Intel's Performance Tuning Protection Plan and not be worried about it, if you burn up your chip while overclocking and overvolting then you can get it replaced.

Just don't lap the IHS or delid the chip as physical alteration of the CPU will void even the protection plan warranty.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highend View Post
Hello.

First of all, I would like opinions that are based on facts. The facts that aren't based on extreme situations.

Now, how high is the risk when overclocking? And by risk I mean, what if I'm planning to use my computer for the next 5 (literally) years? I'm not talking extreme overclocking, I'm talking like 4.3Ghz for 3570K or 4.8Ghz for 3770K (or whatever is the safe OC without increasing voltage by much and on air).

The reason I'm asking is because I don't know if I should buy an overclockable CPU or not. I know that I could not afford a replacement if it fried within a year, and warranty would be void the second I increase the frequency.
The i7 920 that I purchased in 2008 has been overclocked for at least three of the four years that it has been used. I have never pushed it really hard though, nothing over 3.6GHz. Since 2008, this system's GPU died and two power supplies died. I'm sure the CPU will outlast all of the other components. Just buy a good CPU cooler and don't aim for 4.8-5GHz. If I was in your position and I wanted it to last for a long time then I would probably just get a rock solid 4.5GHz with the lowest voltage needed. EDIT: actually, I would probably buy that protection plan that IDC mentioned and overclock the crap out of it.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:12 AM   #5
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I assume you think on hardware failure directly? Does corrupted data concern you at all?

Else as said you can get a overclocking replacement for 25$. Assuming that your data is expendable so to say.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:18 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzz View Post
As long as you don't raise the voltage and don't overheat it it should last 5+ years easy.
I've never killed a cpu by overclocking but I also don't raise the voltage to extremes either.
I wonder how much I could overclock 3570K or 3770K like that. I'm leaning to 3570K however because it's cheaper and I want an SSD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Idontcare View Post
Welcome to the forums highend
Thanks!

Quote:
With Intel CPU's you can spend an extra $25 and buy yourself the Intel's Performance Tuning Protection Plan and not be worried about it, if you burn up your chip while overclocking and overvolting then you can get it replaced.

Just don't lap the IHS or delid the chip as physical alteration of the CPU will void even the protection plan warranty.
I checked the pages, but just to make sure with someone who actually has experience with it:

1. I pay $20-25 for a lifetime OC warranty.
2. I can't get a replacement within the first 30 days if I fry it, however if I wait until the 31st day, I can get a replacement.
3. I can buy the OC warranty online, even though my store is in a country like Ukraine or Russia, and get a replacement from the store? I'm not sure how this works.
4. If I OC it, get a replacement, the original warranty won't be void.

So, let me know if all that is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derped View Post
The i7 920 that I purchased in 2008 has been overclocked for at least three of the four years that it has been used. I have never pushed it really hard though, nothing over 3.6GHz. Since 2008, this system's GPU died and two power supplies died. I'm sure the CPU will outlast all of the other components. Just buy a good CPU cooler and don't aim for 4.8-5GHz. If I was in your position and I wanted it to last for a long time then I would probably just get a rock solid 4.5GHz with the lowest voltage needed. EDIT: actually, I would probably buy that protection plan that IDC mentioned and overclock the crap out of it.
Ha! Yea, it's gonna be air and I'm not gonna push far. Definitely not. I just want to push it a little bit, on air, so it would run games like Shogun, Civization 5, etc. at closer to 60FPS.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:20 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ShintaiDK View Post
I assume you think on hardware failure directly? Does corrupted data concern you at all?

Else as said you can get a overclocking replacement for 25$. Assuming that your data is expendable so to say.
Data as in unsaved data that I'd be working on at that time? And yea, I meant CPU failure. As in I add 0.05-0.1v to OC it to 4.3-4.5Ghz (for 3570K, you have it too I see) and bam! It fries and I need a replacement.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:29 AM   #8
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I have a 3570k and run 4.2ghz at default voltage with a cheap aftermarket heatsink.

3570k seems to be the best bag for the buck compared to the 3770k.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:40 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimzz View Post
I have a 3570k and run 4.2ghz at default voltage with a cheap aftermarket heatsink.

3570k seems to be the best bag for the buck compared to the 3770k.
Actually I was going to PM you, but couldn't do it until I've 10 posts. I might as well post the questions I wrote for you here:

Quote:
1. Have you OCed your 3570K? - Yes

Assuming your GPU isn't OCed and your resolution is 1920x1080:
2. Does every game run on over 50FPS?
3. If not, what games don't?
4. If yes, what's the minimum frame rate you get and in what games?

If question 1 is true:
5. What was the voltage increment? - 0
6. What frequency is it running at? - 4.2Ghz
7. How long has it been running like this?
8. What temperature is it running on?
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:46 AM   #10
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I have an Opteron 165 that has been running at a 50% overclock for 7 years and it shows no signs of degradation. CPUs are pretty tough, probably the last thing I would expect to fail unless you're being reckless with voltage.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuriman View Post
I have an Opteron 165 that has been running at a 50% overclock for 7 years and it shows no signs of degradation. CPUs are pretty tough, probably the last thing I would expect to fail unless you're being reckless with voltage.
How long have you been running that 3570K like that?
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:04 AM   #12
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Two things kill CPUs - temperature and voltage. Get a decent cooler and don't push too high in volts and you'll be fine for many years.

Personally I'd even suggest saving a few more bucks and get a non-K model chip. They can be overclocked to 4 speed bins (0.4 GHz) above the highest turbo frequency on Z77 motherboards. I have my i7 3770 running 4.2GHz right now on stock volts with no issues. If you aren't shooting for the moon in OC target the non-K chips are just as good.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:25 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denithor View Post
Two things kill CPUs - temperature and voltage. Get a decent cooler and don't push too high in volts and you'll be fine for many years.

Personally I'd even suggest saving a few more bucks and get a non-K model chip. They can be overclocked to 4 speed bins (0.4 GHz) above the highest turbo frequency on Z77 motherboards. I have my i7 3770 running 4.2GHz right now on stock volts with no issues. If you aren't shooting for the moon in OC target the non-K chips are just as good.
I'm not, I need it to last long.

Anyway, if speaking of non-K models, the 3470 is 3.2Ghz and the 3570 is 3.4Ghz. As far as I understand, they can go to "turbo" and run on 3.6 and 3.8Ghz without even being overclocked. The 3570 non-K costs $20 more than the 3470, so $10 per 0.1Ghz.

If I understand this alright, then I'd be able to run 3570 on 3.8Ghz WITHOUT even overclocking it?
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:45 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highend View Post
Data as in unsaved data that I'd be working on at that time? And yea, I meant CPU failure. As in I add 0.05-0.1v to OC it to 4.3-4.5Ghz (for 3570K, you have it too I see) and bam! It fries and I need a replacement.
All data on the system. Since overclocking can give data corruption that you wont nessesary see with a BSOD or otherwise crash. And usually only notice when the data corruption is very widespread.

An overclocked CPU can potentially die at any moment. Even after years of running at what assuming was a stable OC.
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Last edited by ShintaiDK; 11-08-2012 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ShintaiDK View Post
All data on the system. Since overclocking can give data corruption that you wont nessesary see with a BSOD or otherwise crash. And usually only notice when the data corruption is very widespread.

An overclocked CPU can potentially die at any moment. Even after years of running at what assuming was a stable OC.
I'm not sure how it can cause data corruption that's on HDD OR at the time in memory. If it's poor memory, underlocking memory should work as a fail-safe, but my memory won't be of poor quality.

Anyway, I'm most concerned about it dying within 3 years of my warranty, and then of it dying after 4-5 years of usage, which is when I'm likely to be able to afford a new PC.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highend View Post
I'm not sure how it can cause data corruption that's on HDD OR at the time in memory. If it's poor memory, underlocking memory should work as a fail-safe, but my memory won't be of poor quality.

Anyway, I'm most concerned about it dying within 3 years of my warranty, and then of it dying after 4-5 years of usage, which is when I'm likely to be able to afford a new PC.
Everytime you write data it can happen.

If you worry and wont buy the protection plan. Then dont OC.

Its all risk vs reward based.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:12 AM   #17
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Everytime you write data it can happen.

If you worry and wont buy the protection plan. Then dont OC.

Its all risk vs reward based.
Well, so far I think that I should go with the non-K version...

But anyway, I would still like to find out how games run on 3570K @ ~4.2-4.5Ghz and 3570 without OC (just in the turbo mode, which should give it a boost to 3.8Ghz without OC?).

You see, the problem is that I am concerned both about games running <60FPS and about frying the CPU. Both things are important to me... So that's why I'd like to find out how well they run on those CPUs.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:30 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by highend View Post
Well, so far I think that I should go with the non-K version...

But anyway, I would still like to find out how games run on 3570K @ ~4.2-4.5Ghz and 3570 without OC (just in the turbo mode, which should give it a boost to 3.8Ghz without OC?).

You see, the problem is that I am concerned both about games running <60FPS and about frying the CPU. Both things are important to me... So that's why I'd like to find out how well they run on those CPUs.
There are plenty of published benchmarks for you to look at.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:40 AM   #19
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Ok, you're confusing two things.

Turbo mode allows all of these chips ramp up the clockspeed on fewer cores. So the i5 3570 stock will run 3.4GHz on all four cores, 3.6GHz on two cores and a max of 3.8GHz on a single core. They allow this because when two/three cores are disabled the remaining two/one core don't generate as much heat so they stay within the thermal envelop for the chip with the stock cooler.

Now, what you're looking at instead is a setting on the Z77 motherboards that allow you to simply turn up the clockspeed multiplier from the nominal 34 (x100 = 3.4GHz) to up to four speed bins above the max turbo frequency (38+4=42). So the i5 3570 can be set to run at up to 4.2GHz with all cores enabled on Z77 motherboards. I wouldn't necessarily suggest this with a stock cooler but with a decent aftermarket cooler you'll be fine.

If you want to push above this speed you will have to go for one of the K model chips.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:03 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barfo View Post
There are plenty of published benchmarks for you to look at.
Couldn't find one, except for running at 5Ghz and 2 games.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Denithor View Post
Ok, you're confusing two things.

Turbo mode allows all of these chips ramp up the clockspeed on fewer cores. So the i5 3570 stock will run 3.4GHz on all four cores, 3.6GHz on two cores and a max of 3.8GHz on a single core. They allow this because when two/three cores are disabled the remaining two/one core don't generate as much heat so they stay within the thermal envelop for the chip with the stock cooler.

Now, what you're looking at instead is a setting on the Z77 motherboards that allow you to simply turn up the clockspeed multiplier from the nominal 34 (x100 = 3.4GHz) to up to four speed bins above the max turbo frequency (38+4=42). So the i5 3570 can be set to run at up to 4.2GHz with all cores enabled on Z77 motherboards. I wouldn't necessarily suggest this with a stock cooler but with a decent aftermarket cooler you'll be fine.

If you want to push above this speed you will have to go for one of the K model chips.
Oh! That makes more sense. Thank you for explaining!

So basically, if I'd overclock 3570K to 4.2, essentially I'd be able to do the same with 3570 without any problems, right? No voltage increment, etc..

If I wanted to go above 4.2Ghz, I would need to increase voltage, which is where 3570K comes in.

Do I understand everything correctly?

And a different question: how would they know if I have overclocked my CPU or not? Assuming it doesn't die of overheating (which is when the PC would likely shut down or restart due to build-in security in the first place). How would they know that I HAVE voided the warranty?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:28 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denithor View Post
Turbo mode allows all of these chips ramp up the clockspeed on fewer cores. So the i5 3570 stock will run 3.4GHz on all four cores, 3.6GHz on two cores and a max of 3.8GHz on a single core.
A 3570 acually runs at 3.6Ghz on 3 and 4 cores, 3.7Ghz on 2 and 3.8ghz on 1 in terms of turbomode.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:28 AM   #22
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You can definitely maintain a moderate oc based on " safe voltages " specific to your chip of choice and expect it to last far beyond its useful life span. The only people who need to worry about degradation are folks who run their CPU's at full loads for long periods of time which isn't the case for 99% of average joe desktop users. If you do a lot of multi-threaded video conversion or run apps like SETI or folding @ home which peg cpu's at 100% load you definitely don't want to run a higher voltage overclock.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:35 AM   #23
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You can definitely maintain a moderate oc based on " safe voltages " specific to your chip of choice and expect it to last far beyond its useful life span. The only people who need to worry about degradation are folks who run their CPU's at full loads for long periods of time which isn't the case for 99% of average joe desktop users. If you do a lot of multi-threaded video conversion or run apps like SETI or folding @ home which peg cpu's at 100% load you definitely don't want to run a higher voltage overclock.
I'm not an average Joe... I do video recording, video conversion, image editing, gaming, compilation works, sound-related works, uploading, compressing, decompressing, watch 1080p movies, and probably more stuff that I didn't think of right this moment. I do that all day, for over 12 hours usually.

My main priority for the resource utilization, however, is still gaming rather than lower time of encoding, etc..
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:53 AM   #24
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As you encode/compress/etc, I'd recommend putting your $$ into a 2600K/2700K instead of 3570K. If you have a Micro Center around it will be very doable. Performance between both 2500K vs. 3570K and 2600K vs. 3770K is super close, and it's less of a crap-shoot to get a good stable OC out of a Sandy Bridge chip than an Ivy Bridge chip.

Anyway, SB is cheaper, so you could conceivably get a 2600K for about the same price you're thinking of for that 3570K. The HT will help you given your list of uses. Also there are tons of used SB's out there from people who swapped them to Ivy.

Ivy is the most underwhelming CPU release from Intel in a looooong time. It's not bad, it's just not really any better than SB for the most part, and even a step back in mfg quality. I've installed dozens of Ivys. Some have been great, some have been mediocre, some have been terrible (the worst was an unstable-at-stock 3770K).

About the only reasons to definitely go Ivy :

notebook (lack of IHS on those models alleviates a lot of problems)

delidding

going to use multiple GTX690 or 7970 X2s (PCI-Express 3.0 vs. 2.0 is moot for the most part, 0-2% performance gain, but I could see dual 690s or 7970 X2s widening that gap possibly).
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:56 AM   #25
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Buy the Intel Performance tuning plan for $25. Buy the 3770k (or as Arkaign suggested 2600k/2700k) and overclock it using Intel's Overclock software. You should be set.
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