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Old 11-08-2012, 08:59 AM   #40851
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Originally Posted by OCNewbie View Post
TM buys weed from the dudes: He's attempting to evade GZ not because GZ has frightened him, but because he had weed on him, and didn't want to get caught with it. If he's not scared of GZ, like fearful GZ is going to do him harm, then it's more believable that TM confronted GZ out of anger, and not of fear, etc.
Possible, but if so, where is the weed? Did he run and stash it, and if so, why? Did he think Zimmerman was a cop? Did he know Zimmerman was on the phone with the cops?

He was afraid of getting caught with weed, but apparently didn't care about being caught assaulting someone? Doesn't really fit.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:03 AM   #40852
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Possible, but if so, where is the weed? Did he run and stash it, and if so, why? Did he think Zimmerman was a cop? Did he know Zimmerman was on the phone with the cops?

He was afraid of getting caught with weed, but apparently didn't care about being caught assaulting someone? Doesn't really fit.
If he was able to complete his game of knock out he'd never be caught, but he sure would have taught that white guy a lesson for disrespectin' Slim from da streets! Yo!
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:03 AM   #40853
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"You're sure"? Based on what?
Based on nothing. I'm giving my opinion on the internet like everyone else.

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Guess character assassination is only a concern if you're black.
You said that, not me.

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Zimmerman has been fully vetted in that regard. Don't you remember, the FBI looked deep into his past trying to prove Z was a racist.
Not being a racist doesn't mean he didn't have nefarious intentions. If who Martin interacted with prior to the altercation is relevant, then so is who Zimmerman interacted with. It's that simple.

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Regardless of how you feel about the relevance of the supposed purchase, it does handily dispel the narrative that Martin was a perfect angel and Zimmerman misprofiled him.
Don't really know anyone who buys into that narrative any more, though Zimmerman couldn't possible know what type of person Martin was by looking at him from a distance.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:04 AM   #40854
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If he was able to complete his game of knock out he'd never be caught, but he sure would have taught that white guy a lesson for disrespectin' Slim from da streets! Yo!
You don't interact with many black people, or minorities in general, do you?
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:05 AM   #40855
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You can easily tell what kind of person they are in how they carry themselves. Zimmerman correctly profiled Martin as a thug criminal. Do you know why?

Because he acted like a thug criminal when he brutally and viciously commited felony assault and battery against zimmerman. That is a forcible felony, and one is perfectly lawfully allowed to shoot in self defense.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:06 AM   #40856
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Possible, but if so, where is the weed? Did he run and stash it, and if so, why? Did he think Zimmerman was a cop? Did he know Zimmerman was on the phone with the cops?

He was afraid of getting caught with weed, but apparently didn't care about being caught assaulting someone? Doesn't really fit.
If he thought GZ was a cop, that would explain it. Some seem to believe that the owner of the house TM was staying at (Brandy, TM's dad's girlfriend) revealed that they found some indication that TM had been on the porch prior the the confrontation with GZ; I believe TM's dad may have said something that seemed to indicate this too.

He may have been afraid of being caught by the police with weed, but wasn't above attacking someone that he later realized was NOT the police.

Nobody really knows. I'm just guessing what the defense might suggest IF somehow they were able to contact those 3(?) males that seemed to have some sort of interaction with TM that night at the 7-11.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:06 AM   #40857
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You can easily tell what kind of person they are in how they carry themselves. Zimmerman correctly profiled Martin as a thug criminal.
Sure buddy.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #40858
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Sure buddy.
Martin committed a felony that night, that does indeed make him a thug criminal. In fact martin's felony attack is the only crime committed that night, and there is mounds of evidence proving he committed a felony.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:09 AM   #40859
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If he thought GZ was a cop, that would explain it. Some seem to believe that the owner of the house TM was staying at (Brandy, TM's dad's girlfriend) revealed that they found some indication that TM had been on the porch prior the the confrontation with GZ; I believe TM's dad may have said something that seemed to indicate this too.
I believe it was Brandy who said something to that nature on Feb. 27th, though I'm not entirely sure that's what she meant.

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He may have been afraid of being caught by the police with weed, but wasn't above attacking someone that he later realized was NOT the police.
Well, the person he was talking with on the phone never said he thought Zimmerman was the police, but who knows. I get what you are saying.

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Nobody really knows. I'm just guessing what the defense might suggest IF somehow they were able to contact those 3(?) males that seemed to have some sort of interaction with TM that night at the 7-11.
Possible, but I don't think they will bother. But I could be wrong.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:10 AM   #40860
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Martin committed a felony that night, that does indeed make him a thug criminal. In fact martin's felony attack is the only crime committed that night, and there is mounds of evidence proving he committed a felony.
Maybe, but I can't take what you say seriously since you are a racist. Whatever you have to say regarding any case involving blacks or minorities in general is irrelevant because you are clearly biased.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:22 AM   #40861
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Well, the person he was talking with on the phone never said he thought Zimmerman was the police, but who knows. I get what you are saying.
It's my opinion that "the person he was talking with on the phone" is not exactly the best candidate to give a verbatim play-by-play of how things went down that night. We'll see how she does (if she does) at the immunity hearing, or wherever else the prosecution (or defense) might choose to use her.

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Possible, but I don't think they will bother. But I could be wrong.
I dunno, I think if I were the defense, I'd rather argue that the person who attacked my client was not just a kid who had made a trip to 7-11 to buy his brother some Skittles and Iced Tea, but rather a troubled teen on the way home from a drug deal, or something like that. That's of course, IF those 3 individuals in the surveillance video can be tracked down, and IF they are willing to divulge any damning information about TM that evening. I imagine they had at least a somewhat friendly relationship with TM, so I doubt they'd be willing to say much, who knows.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:25 AM   #40862
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It's my opinion that "the person he was talking with on the phone" is not exactly the best candidate to give a verbatim play-by-play of how things went down that night. We'll see how she does (if she does) at the immunity hearing, or wherever else the prosecution (or defense) might choose to use her.
What you are saying is true, but then again Zimmerman has no credibility either, and he may be telling the truth here, so who knows. She probably isn't telling the truth, but then again maybe she is.



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I dunno, I think if I were the defense, I'd rather argue that the person who attacked my client was not just a kid who had made a trip to 7-11 to buy his brother some Skittles and Iced Tea, but rather a troubled teen on the way home from a drug deal, or something like that. That's of course, IF those 3 individuals in the surveillance video can be tracked down, and IF they are willing to divulge any damning information about TM that evening. I imagine they had at least a somewhat friendly relationship with TM, so I doubt they'd be willing to say much, who knows.
I do see your point and agree.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #40863
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Possible, but if so, where is the weed? Did he run and stash it, and if so, why? Did he think Zimmerman was a cop? Did he know Zimmerman was on the phone with the cops?

He was afraid of getting caught with weed, but apparently didn't care about being caught assaulting someone? Doesn't really fit.
It's because we don't know how the altercation actually started.

All of the pro zimmerman people keep saying Trayvon assaulted him as if they know exactly how it went down, without having an facts or evidence to show how it went down.

After watching the youtube video of the guys coming in after trayvon, I find the buying weed thing probable.

And sure, maybe he ran from Zimmerman because he had weed on him or maybe he was worried about getting robbed or mugged by the random guy who was following him around. But nobody has evidence showing that Trayvon came back and attacked him.... only speculation.

And that speculation is equal to speculating that Zimmerman continued chasing after him and caught up to him forcing Trayvon into a defensive position.

You cannot deny that as a possibility and then pretend that you know for a fact trayvon just went up to him and assaulted him for no reason.


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I dunno, I think if I were the defense, I'd rather argue that the person who attacked my client was not just a kid who had made a trip to 7-11 to buy his brother some Skittles and Iced Tea, but rather a troubled teen on the way home from a drug deal, or something like that. That's of course, IF those 3 individuals in the surveillance video can be tracked down, and IF they are willing to divulge any damning information about TM that evening. I imagine they had at least a somewhat friendly relationship with TM, so I doubt they'd be willing to say much, who knows.
Yeah, because despite legalization in some states this election cycle, a huge portion of americans have been brain washed to think people who smoke weed support terrorism or are horrible people and they do so while sipping a beer and supporting an industry responsible for hundreds of thousands of deaths annually.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:41 AM   #40864
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Martin committed a felony that night, that does indeed make him a thug criminal. In fact martin's felony attack is the only crime committed that night, and there is mounds of evidence proving he committed a felony.
Absolutely no proof to back up your statements.

That's why you're a fucking idiot and a complete joke.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:41 AM   #40865
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Absolutely no proof to back up your statements.

That's why you're a fucking idiot and a complete joke.
Injuries and eye witness accounts PROVE felony assault and battery by Martin.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:48 AM   #40866
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Possible, but if so, where is the weed? Did he run and stash it, and if so, why? Did he think Zimmerman was a cop? Did he know Zimmerman was on the phone with the cops?

He was afraid of getting caught with weed, but apparently didn't care about being caught assaulting someone? Doesn't really fit.
Who was going to catch him assaulting someone?

If there was weed; there are two or three logical locations for it.
By the house/bushes that he was hiding/waiting for Zimmerman
If he made if to Brandy's house; stash it there
Toss is anywhere away from him.

The first two are the most logical.

Given that his dad and Brandy thought he was home; leaving evidence at the back of that house would explain it not found by the LEO and that he was thought to have been there that evening.

The info would not have been turned over to LEO after it was determiend that the body was Martin.

Had Martin stashed it anywhere off the beaten track; LEO would not be looking for it and/or not associated it with Martin.

The only potential evidence leading to drugs is that Martin had more $$ on him than what his father thought.
Somewhere it was indicated that the difference was roughly the amount that would be a minimal sale.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:52 AM   #40867
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Who was going to catch him assaulting someone?
Uh, the police? If he stashed his weed, apparently he was worried about them coming.

Regardless, my point still remains. If who ever Martin interacted with prior to the altercation is relevant, then so is whoever Zimmerman interacted with as well.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:55 AM   #40868
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Injuries and eye witness accounts PROVE felony assault and battery by Martin.
It only proves that Trayvon got the better end of the fight.

As stated before it doesn't prove how the fight started and that's what really matters.

You have been talking out of your ass for all 1635 pages of this thread pretending you know how the fight started. But since there's no evidence of how it started, it means you know jack shit.

All we know is that Trayvon was more explosive and athletic than Zimmerman and ultimately a better fighter. Zimmerman is a loser in his late 20s who's way past his physical prime.

Had he not murdered the other party we wouldn't have to go through 1600 pages because we'd know exactly what went down.

As it stands, Zimmerman left the safety of his car to pursue somebody he assumed to be a criminal. Then a fight ensues and he got dropped and suffered minor injuries before pulling his gun and killing the other person involved in the altercation who also happened to be a minor.

So not only are we talking about a murder case, but then you get into the fact that he killed somebody who by legal definition was a child.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:00 AM   #40869
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It doesn't matter how the fight started when martin is on top, straddling zimmerman after brutally beating him about the head screaming for his life. At that point, zimmerman is perfectly allowed to shoot in self defense even if he was the initial aggressor. At that point, martin is committing a forcible felony and the threat to zimmerman is imminent.

And yet, there is still ZERO evidence he was initial aggressor. And EVEN IF HE WAS, he can still shoot when martin is on top of him preventing his retreat.

I'm still waiting for a single shred of evidence that zimmerman committed a forcible felony or crime that night. So far nobody has been able to provide a single piece of evidence, not one thing.

Until any evidence disputing any of these 3 points (actually they are FACTS, backed up by evidence) can be shown, zimmerman committed no crime nor should have been arrested.

1) In place lawfully allowed to be? Yes
2) Commission of felony (or forcible felony) or attempting to flee a crime? No
3) In fear of life and threat imminent? Yes, by precedent when the attacker is on top of you when you are on your back the threat to life is imminent is presumed by law and you can shoot. It is one of the automatic qualifiers from a legal perspective where you can shoot no matter what.

That's what makes it such a clear cut case of self defense. It's got all the magic legal points and make it rock solid, beyond any doubt, backed up by all evidence it was self defense.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:16 AM   #40870
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Uh, the police? If he stashed his weed, apparently he was worried about them coming.

Regardless, my point still remains. If who ever Martin interacted with prior to the altercation is relevant, then so is whoever Zimmerman interacted with as well.
Martin's interaction goes to his frame of mind and destroying the profile criteria that the TM supporters keep harping on; that he was an angel. If a drug dealer; he was no angel. just another straw to match up with his online persona; but this one is not online/made up.

He stashed his weed (if it existed) because he was concerned about Zimmerman being LEO.

He was not concerned about LEO in particular; otherwise he would have gotten off Martin the moment John entered the scene and announced that he was going to call.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #40871
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Martin's interaction goes to his frame of mind and destroying the profile criteria that the TM supporters keep harping on; that he was an angel. If a drug dealer; he was no angel. just another straw to match up with his online persona; but this one is not online/made up.

He stashed his weed (if it existed) because he was concerned about Zimmerman being LEO.

He was not concerned about LEO in particular; otherwise he would have gotten off Martin the moment John entered the scene and announced that he was going to call.
I can go w\ this theory.

Although it still doesn't change many things and we still don't know how the altercation actually started.

Whether he was buying or selling weed prior doesn't fill in every hole, nor does it automatically make him some evil doer since the adults in the room know marijuana should be legal anyhow.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:51 AM   #40872
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And this is why florida should just fall into the ocean.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:54 AM   #40873
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Zimmerman has been fully vetted in that regard. Don't you remember, the FBI looked deep into his past trying to prove Z was a racist.
I find it so ironic that testimony/statements by the police and the FBI may very well prove to be the evidence the defense needs to get the charges against GZ dismissed and immunity granted.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:57 AM   #40874
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And this is why florida should just fall into the ocean.
24-26 states have laws that are essentially the same. In my state I would be FULLY justified in shooting and would not be arrested. You simply CANNOT brutally attack somebody, mount and ground and pound them about the head as they scream for their life - that is illegal, that is a felony and CAN get you lawfully killed. In fact, that scenario is covered in most concealed carry classes as one of the few scenarios where you are automatically justified to shoot in self defense. That position, the law presumes one reasonably fears for their life and are automatically justified in using whatever force necessary to stop the threat including shooting them.

Being on back with attacker on top of you, qualifies automatically as lawful self defense. It's the golden ticket for OK TO SHOOT.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:08 PM   #40875
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I can go w\ this theory.

Although it still doesn't change many things and we still don't know how the altercation actually started.

Whether he was buying or selling weed prior doesn't fill in every hole, nor does it automatically make him some evil doer since the adults in the room know marijuana should be legal anyhow.
Whether or not people know that it should be legal, it is not legal in Fla.

Martin knew that.

He was suspended from school because of it.

Had he had weed on him in any form, it probably played a role in his decision making that evening.

==============================================

How the altercation started is up in the air.
What is known are the results.
  1. TM was in control of GZ
  2. GZ was on the ground
  3. GZ had injuries. - Extent and severity is up to the individual and state of mind
  4. TM did not release GZ when informed that the LEO were to be called

As a result; TM was shot once while leaning over GZ and is dead.

Once #1 became establish; what led to the that state does not release TM from the responsibility of disengaging unless it can be shown that at that point, and only that point he felt he was in danger.

TM never indicated that he felt he was in danger to anyone.
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