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Old 11-07-2012, 03:24 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by grkM3 View Post
here you go,a 4.0 in mini s3 with the same hardware of the gs3.Its clocked 300mhz slower but that is so it dosnt compete with the gs3
Uh, you just supported his point. 300 MHz slower in the smaller form factor.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:26 PM   #27
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What I said was that there is always a trade off. Making something smaller either costs more or parts need to be left out. Nothing ridiculous about it, why would the S3 mini have reduced specs if Samsung could fit the regular S3 hardware into it?
There are other reasons, such as wanting to target a specific segment of the market. Sometimes product specs might be reduced to create differentiation between two products. It could also be due to supply constraints, such that if Samsung wanted to ship a large volume of these devices, they couldn't use the same components as the availability of some or all were constrained.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:55 PM   #28
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Come on guys, we've just reached the point where active cooling is the norm. It worked for 486's, and we've gotten used to having cooling fans. Besides, it'll look futury with a giant fan/sink sticking out the back.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:11 PM   #29
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Come on guys, we've just reached the point where active cooling is the norm. It worked for 486's, and we've gotten used to having cooling fans. Besides, it'll look futury with a giant fan/sink sticking out the back.
First thing I'm doing with my Nexus 4 is applying some Arctic Silver, a Thermalright heatsink, and a Noctua 120mm fan. It's going to rock.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:36 PM   #30
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Uh, you just supported his point. 300 MHz slower in the smaller form factor.
That depends on whether the lower frequency is because of engineering or marketing reasons.

The SOC in the S3 doesn't have a heat sink and there's no air circulation going on so why would a smaller phone need a lower frequency from an engineering POV.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:01 PM   #31
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Uh, you just supported his point. 300 MHz slower in the smaller form factor.
No its because the s3 is samsungs flagship phone.just Google what people are over clocking that little sucker too.it is under clocked for marketing reasons.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:33 PM   #32
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Come on guys, we've just reached the point where active cooling is the norm. It worked for 486's, and we've gotten used to having cooling fans. Besides, it'll look futury with a giant fan/sink sticking out the back.
I can imagine future smartphones starting to use heat pipes or something that circulates around the phone itself to dissipate heat.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:41 PM   #33
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No its because the s3 is samsungs flagship phone.just Google what people are over clocking that little sucker too.it is under clocked for marketing reasons.
Ug, another one of these "But it can be overclocked!" posts. Sorry, if that's your best argument, you've discredited yourself yet again.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:46 PM   #34
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Ug, another one of these "But it can be overclocked!" posts. Sorry, if that's your best argument, you've discredited yourself yet again.
The oc argument is perfectly solid given it shows phone form factor is not a limiting factor in soc choice or clock speed. Both you and some others seem to confuse correlation and causation. Small phones do not have Lower specs because of physical constraints.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:00 PM   #35
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Come on guys, we've just reached the point where active cooling is the norm. It worked for 486's, and we've gotten used to having cooling fans. Besides, it'll look futury with a giant fan/sink sticking out the back.
Unless you have an active cooling solution that doesn't draw power from the battery, it's a no go. These are devices that already get underwhelming battery life compared to dumb phones or what were previously considered 'smart' devices. Also, I question how well many cooling systems would do considering these devices spend a lot of time in pockets or purses where they can't breath all that well anyways.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:16 PM   #36
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I don't think smartphone SoC's need active cooling and I don't expect them to ever push performance to that point. OEM's will likely eat up the die shrink gains via clocking and architectural improvements but it's insane to push the thermals into the range that forces use of active cooling. That being said, I do expect them to devote more attention to passive cooling but it will always remain a distant concern, far behind the design objective, of it should ever conflict with target thickness, passive cooling will lose out to that objective.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:55 PM   #37
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I posted a samsung cell that is the same exact size of the mini s3 that has the same exact guts as the big s3 in that thread.
4954.php[/URL]
I'm talking about the size of the phone, not just the screen diagonal size.

Galaxy S3 - 133g
Galaxy Stellar 4G - 133g
Galaxy S3 Mini- 111g

One of those phones is smaller than the others, and has noticeably reduced specs. The other two are the same overall size.

You can't just look at the screen diagonal, or else you will end up comparing thick phones to thin and vice/versa. Look at the phone weight, you see that they are exactly equally massive, and even then the one that "seems" smaller to you has it's CPU clocked down, probably because the thicker design doesn't allow heat to dissipate as efficiently.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:56 PM   #38
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People seem to be forgetting the heat is generated by energy, in this case electricity. If a phone is creating enough heat for cooling to be an issue, it is consuming too much electricity to be a phone period.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:05 PM   #39
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Yeah, active cooling is a terrible idea. And also a joke.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:09 PM   #40
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Not in normal day to day use, but I know my iPhones (3G and 4), the S3, the Nexus, the Incredible, heck just about all of them would get quite hot when being used while charging.
Yup. My dad's GS2 and my GN gets super hot while charging, tethering, watching videos, or any of the above at the same time.

By super hot, I mean very uncomfortable to touch.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:11 PM   #41
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People seem to be forgetting the heat is generated by energy, in this case electricity. If a phone is creating enough heat for cooling to be an issue, it is consuming too much electricity to be a phone period.
Luckily we have also invented batteries that fit inside these phones so they can carry around the needed electricity without much issue.

Every modern phone produces heat, question is just how much and how it is managed. Cooling in existing phones is precisely not an issue because they are designed to properly handle the heat. If you ignore those designs and try to stuff faster phone parts into smaller cases without compensation, heat issues will arise. *Maybe* this is part of what happened to the Nexus 4. Glass was probably a poor material choice.
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:17 PM   #42
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First time it's been an issue because the manufacturers are playing it safe and limiting powerful processors to larger phones.

What I said was that there is always a trade off. Making something smaller either costs more or parts need to be left out. Nothing ridiculous about it, why would the S3 mini have reduced specs if Samsung could fit the regular S3 hardware into it?

Just think about it backwards- if you can make phone X as a 4" phone, then you make the exact same hardware into a 5" phone, you have a lot of extra space. You can clock the CPU higher, or add a bigger battery, a larger speaker, or whatever. Given the same technology, more space simply gives you more features or allows for better thermal dissipation.
Because Samsung wants to protect their profit margins?
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:07 PM   #43
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S3 Mini is a bad phone for any kind of comparison, it's a bad phone period. The "extra space" on bigger phones is not the reason they are clocked higher. The Mini is nothing but Samsung's attempt to capitalize on the SGS3's name. On a scale of 1 to 10, they took a 6.2 phone and priced/advertised it like a 7.6 phone.

Even if batteries allowed them to do so. no OEM in their right mind would ship a phone/tablet pushed to the point where it needs active cooling. We'll tiptoe the thermal ceiling but it's not a concern, new architectures and die shrinks will buy us enough time if we reach the end of the road.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:28 AM   #44
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... Glass was probably a poor material choice.
Glass is probably bad durability wise but it conducts heat a lot better than plastic.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:31 AM   #45
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The oc argument is perfectly solid given it shows phone form factor is not a limiting factor in soc choice or clock speed.
The OC argument is a poor one, unless you happen to have the ability to QA thousands of phones.

This is not to say that a smaller phone can't have high clocked chips. However, there is a tendency for smaller form factors to have more heat constraints, so there is a tendency for smaller form factors to have slower CPUs. This can be overcome with design considerations and modifications of other components, but it's not as if you can cram any CPU into any form factor and expect it to work well in millions of units.

The point here is that it is possible LG's design for the Nexus 4 may not be ideal for the chip selected. Either that or it's a bad unit or something else, but whatever the case, it's foolish to simply ignore Anand's/Brian's observations like some here are advocating.
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Old 11-08-2012, 06:37 AM   #46
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The OC argument is a poor one, unless you happen to have the ability to QA thousands of phones.

This is not to say that a smaller phone can't have high clocked chips. However, there is a tendency for smaller form factors to have more heat constraints, so there is a tendency for smaller form factors to have slower CPUs. This can be overcome with design considerations and modifications of other components, but it's not as if you can cram any CPU into any form factor and expect it to work well in millions of units.

The point here is that it is possible LG's design for the Nexus 4 may not be ideal for the chip selected. Either that or it's a bad unit or something else, but whatever the case, it's foolish to simply ignore Anand's/Brian's observations like some here are advocating.
Can you give some examples of those because when I open up my "big" phone I dont see any large air spaces, vent holes or heat sinks that have been left out of smaller phones.

Large phones have higher clocked chips because customers will pay more for large phones. Chips that dont pass QC for high frequencies can be used in lower clocked phones for lower prices.
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Old 11-08-2012, 07:15 AM   #47
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Glass is probably bad durability wise but it conducts heat a lot better than plastic.
Who said plastic is the alternative? Aluminum is better than either. I think it's no coincidence that apple switch to using aluminum backing on the iPhone5, with it's faster processor.

And that said, even plastic can be superior, because while it may insulate more than glass with equal amounts of material, plastic can be thinner and can be designed with ventilation holes and shaping you just can't do with glass.
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Old 11-08-2012, 08:58 AM   #48
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People seem to be forgetting the heat is generated by energy, in this case electricity. If a phone is creating enough heat for cooling to be an issue, it is consuming too much electricity to be a phone period.
Heat is change in kinetic energy. As such, it builds up over time. A phone doesn't need to consume more electricity in order for it to push out a ton of heat since it's all accumulated.

And heat builds up faster when it can't escape fast enough.

Contrary to belief, a thicker phone may actually not help dissipate heat faster because heat will have to travel a greater distance through that thick layer before it gets out of the device. To that end, a thinner device that's built with a good heat conducting material is far better.

I think people are mistaking surface area with thickness...
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:39 AM   #49
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Who said plastic is the alternative? Aluminum is better than either. I think it's no coincidence that apple switch to using aluminum backing on the iPhone5, with it's faster processor.

And that said, even plastic can be superior, because while it may insulate more than glass with equal amounts of material, plastic can be thinner and can be designed with ventilation holes and shaping you just can't do with glass.
What phone do you have with air vents in?
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:55 AM   #50
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What phone do you have with air vents in?
Galaxy Nexus has a few holes on the back of the case which wouldn't be possible with glass, although they are not ventilation holes.

But one fairly popular consumer phone has very obvious ventilation holes as part of the design, perhaps you have heard of it: the iPhone 5.

It also happens to be a case where a small phone design got a faster CPU, and the designers had to adjust the design to compensate for the additional heat produced by the faster SOC. Of course you can continue to deny that and just assume apple added the ventilation holes for some other purpose.
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