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Old 11-07-2012, 05:53 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by Steeplerot View Post
Fascists hate nothing more then to be told they are full of shit. How dare you question their world? It's narcissism at it's basest.

First denial, then anger, soon righties will decide to keep up the fundamentalist mindset that keeps failing them or adapt.

Why not worry about righties? Folks like this cannot adapt and always "trip on their own dicks" to use a local term.

If you surround yourself with people who hang out with you because you are a powerful dick, they are just looking to stab you in the back.

You never have a good grasp on the master plan if your info is "doctored" for a preconceived bias.

Their world is a plastic imitation of reality. Most people are smart enough to start looking for better options, it's human nature to look out for your own. (unless you are inherently narcissistic/self destructive)
ok, I'll try to be more optimistic. Thanks for the good discussion.
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:58 PM   #77
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I hope that you're right. I just see these people getitng even more extreme due to their isolation from the rest of American culture and society.
I am an optimist as I have a lot of respect for human civilization getting this far, but yeah. Balkanization is no good, and the right wing hatemongers just carry on.

Well then, any ideas? I don't see the UN invading and having to call old favors in from the world wars yet. (we kicked the right wing CSA asses last time) Hang tight. Americans are a fickle and hardheaded lot, but it's a young country. Don't mind the mess, the revolution carries on. Sometimes you gotta crack open a few stinky eggs of old right wing BS into the fresh air to get stuff done.

All countries have a nest of them.

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Old 11-07-2012, 06:18 PM   #78
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I would say it's the other way around. Minorities and women have banded together in a mostly irrational, and sometimes rational, fear of white men. White men were already here voting and controlling shit before women or minorities were allowed to vote.
I'd flip that - minorities and women have banded together in a mostly rational, sometimes irrational fear of the Republican Party.

Fear is the wrong word for it, though - it's more like wariness. The Republican Party is not out to hurt minorities or women, but they're even less interested in their welfare than the Democrats are. In some cases, Republicans even specifically target minority groups (not just by race but by gender, religion, and sexuality) to score political points with their base (mostly the religious, but also the xenophobic).

As Mr. Atwater was quoted as saying all those years ago, today the targeting of minority groups is much more abstract. Do you know what the single largest source of budget cuts the Romney/Ryan ticket aimed to make was? Here they are:
  • $1.4 trillion from Medicaid over the next 10 years. That’s a 34 percent cut to the program’s expected spending over the next decade. Those cuts, unlike the cuts to Medicare, are specific, and they begin immediately. Estimates from the Urban Institute suggest that if those cuts are made, about 30 million people could lose their health insurance.
  • The repeal of Affordable Care Act. That’s where some of his Medicaid cuts come from, but that also knocks out all the subsidies for lower-income Americans to get health insurance. So that’s another 15 million people without health insurance.
  • Ryan’s budget cuts $134 billion from food stamps, which is enough to kick 8-10 million people off the program.
  • Ryan cuts $166 billion from the portion of the budget that houses our education, training, employment and social services funding.
In total, 62% of cuts in the Ryan budget are from low-income programs. Not all people from all minority groups are low-income, but many are in living memory of coming to North America and starting from very little. They still see an attack on these programs as an attack on them. This is why today Republicans struggle with the minority vote.
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Old 11-07-2012, 06:44 PM   #79
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Wow, people vote for white guys for hundreds of years, ones black dude gets in and it's "OMG! You're so racist for not voting for the poor white guy".

Really when did people get so whiney because others don't agree with them?
When they started to desperately not want to pay attention to the elephants in the room. Blame something entirely unrelated, and then there's no need to look at reality.

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I would say it's the other way around. Minorities and women have banded together in a mostly irrational, and sometimes rational, fear of white men. White men were already here voting and controlling shit before women or minorities were allowed to vote.
And what do I find, but a perfect example of exactly what I said above, a little farther down.

You need to start off by assuming that it (a) is in fact rational, based on how others view the party's policies and implementations of them, and their social views, (b) is a coincidental occurrence*, rather than a conspiratorial banding together, and (c) is a realization that the Republicans are run by whackjobs, rather than a fear of white men.

P.S. The Dems have their share of whackjobs, too. Don't try taking it to mean that they don't; but their whackjobs have no interest in regressing on civil rights, making it easier to move towards a dictatorship and/or a 21st-century nation of robber barons, etc., so they make for an easier to insert suppository.

* coincidental is in, "co," and, "incidental"; not, "coincidence."
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:47 PM   #80
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Yes, but in this case the context is not in what is being said but WHO is saying it. I could post a lot of things my friends say and every last one of you would say that was some racist shit until I told you that they are black.

A white person using even the word in the best possible context can and very often is still labeled a racist.
WHO is saying something is a major part of context. Would you consider it racist if a Jew said "I hate Jews"? How about if Mel Gibson said it? Do you think that it is somehow wrong that a Jew can use that phrase but Mel Gibson can't without being labeled a piece of shit?
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:47 PM   #81
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WHO is saying something is a major part of context. Would you consider it racist if a Jew said "I hate Jews"? How about if Mel Gibson said it? Do you think that it is somehow wrong that a Jew can use that phrase but Mel Gibson can't without being labeled a piece of shit?
I think it is equally wrong for the term "I hate jews" to be used regardless of who uses it. That is a very different phrase than the one we are currently talking about which has very different meanings depending on the context. "I hate jews" means the same thing regardless of context.

Edit: And regardless who used the phrase "I hate jews" it still wouldn't be racist.
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:18 PM   #82
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I see, saying "That dirty Ni**er shouldn't be in the white house" is the same thing as saying "Thats my Ni**a".

It's all a big misunderstanding!
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:25 PM   #83
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I see, saying "That dirty Ni**er shouldn't be in the white house" is the same thing as saying "Thats my Ni**a".

It's all a big misunderstanding!
Listen, people are very angry with this guy obama, when people get angry they sometimes say things like this. obama has destroyed this country so what else do you expect from them?
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Old 11-07-2012, 10:38 PM   #84
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Listen, people are very angry with this guy obama, when people get angry they sometimes say things like this. obama has destroyed this country so what else do you expect from them?
Normal people don't say things like that when they're angry. That's more of the tribalistic Romney supporter behavior, not American cultural behavior.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:14 PM   #85
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Listen, people are very angry with this guy obama, when people get angry they sometimes say things like this. obama has destroyed this country so what else do you expect from them?
You mean...when white people get angry they start spitting racist diatribe?!

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Old 11-07-2012, 11:27 PM   #86
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You mean...when white people get angry they start spitting racist diatribe?!

Not all white people, I dont know why exactly they said it, go ask them. But people are angry that obama is in office so of course there going to say things like this

Did you see what beyone and jayz said about romney
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:28 PM   #87
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Did you see what beyone and jayz said about romney
I didn't, clue me in?
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:31 PM   #88
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I didn't, clue me in?
Those idiots need to close there mouth

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywo...tweets-mitches
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:02 AM   #89
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I get that. What I'm asking is two decades after this stategy stopped actively even being used (as far as we can rationally tell), how is it blacks are unable to look at policy rather than party? At high 80% when non-black is running, and over 90% when blacks are running, you have got to admit that is basically blind loyalty to party. No one has those numbers. I wouldn't bet money between picking who has the higher dedication % between black voters and Dem vs. KKK and the white candidate in a black vs. white contest where the black is a EDIT Rep /EDIT.

That's scary when you think about it.

Chuck
It is blind party loyalty. And it persists because there is a culture of Democratic ideas within the black community that is so built in that it will last for generations. And it has lasted for generations. It's origins are in the original coalitions that ended slavery. And then decades later started the civil rights movement.

As short a view as we sometimes take at history, things get baked into people for generations. They're born every day living in a Democratic household, with those values, and it doesn't very easily go away.

And when you look at what the origin is, it makes sense. One group (the South) wanted to FUCKING ENSLAVE them. The other, fought a long and bloody war to free them. Then years later the same battle was fought in protests and sit-ins to give them full civil rights.

So if the same viscous racism that was to be ended in 1864, was still there in 1960.. why should it not still exist in some form in our politics by 2060? It's foolish to think we've wiped the slate clean in terms of it's effects on our politics.

I'm not saying we haven't made substantial progress.. just don't expect that particular voting block to start going en masse, right away, to its centuries-long enemy.

The Republican Party today is dominated by what used to be the Southern Democrats. It's pretty damn obvious why they have a hard time getting black votes, even decades later. It has nothing to do with anyone, today, being racists.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:22 AM   #90
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I understand the black mentality just fine.
Dude, when you start spouting conservatard memes, you should sit back and take a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong look at your life.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:24 AM   #91
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The Republican Party today is dominated by what used to be the Southern Democrats. It's pretty damn obvious why they have a hard time getting black votes, even decades later. It has nothing to do with anyone, today, being racists.
Wrong.
Republicans are still racists.
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Old 11-08-2012, 12:35 AM   #92
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Forget for a minute that BO is black. If a white President did the exact same things during the last 4 years as BO would he have been reelected? I don't believe he would, but there is a slight possibility, seeing how many people now are "dependant" of the government. And therein lies the problem as I see it. That is why I think BO, besides the fact he is "black", received such a high proportion of the minority vote.

Why does everyone need a cell(obamaphone)? Why is there so much excess cash benefit handed out in the welfare program that people collecting can afford beer, cigarettes, cable tv, lottery tickets, etc? Why can I go to anyone of the people I know that get assistance with food and purchase $200-300 for $.50 on the dollar?

When I was young, for a short time, we did get welfare, and the stigma that was associated with it forced my parents to do what they had to do to get off the dole. Having to pull out paper coupons to pay for food made for some not proud moments. And there was never much cash assistance.

Maybe thats what is needed. Cut the programs so that people that want nice things like cellphones, plasma tvs, xboxs, etc have to do a little for themselves to afford it. Bring back paper food coupons, not plastic cards. Undignify public assistance.

Welfare in my eyes should be a stopgap, that barely gives you enough to survive, not make a living on it. Those changes alone should go along way in not only curing what is wrong with welfare in this country, but will force people to take those jobs that are to good for them or don't pay what they expect.

I could go on and on but I got slightly off topic.

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Old 11-08-2012, 12:43 AM   #93
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but there is a slight possibility, seeing how many people now are "dependant" of the government.
Jesus Christ GTFO Rush.

Why are conservatards so fucking gullible?
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:42 AM   #94
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Those idiots need to close there mouth

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywo...tweets-mitches
"take that mitches" is exactly the same as "that dirty ****** shouldn't be in the white house"?

Also it's nice that you excused the offensive one but got your panties in a bunch over the word 'mitches'.
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Old 11-08-2012, 03:45 AM   #95
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Forget for a minute that BO is black. If a white President did the exact same things during the last 4 years as BO would he have been reelected?
Against the same opponent? I think it would have been an even bigger win for the D's.
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Old 11-08-2012, 09:57 AM   #96
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Against the same opponent? I think it would have been an even bigger win for the D's.
Of course it would be. All the racists that voted against him simply because he is black would have at least considered voting D.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:09 AM   #97
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"take that mitches" is exactly the same as "that dirty ****** shouldn't be in the white house"?

Also it's nice that you excused the offensive one but got your panties in a bunch over the word 'mitches'.
obama isn't obeying the Constitution so yes people should attack him and anyone else against the Constitution

beyonce and jayz only voted for him based on race
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:16 AM   #98
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Those idiots need to close there mouth

http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Hollywo...tweets-mitches
lmao...really? You're mad at Beyonce for writing "Take that, Mitches" on a sheet of paper...but you find it perfectly reasonable for a bunch of white idiots to lament the fact that we have a Ni**er in the white house.

Wow.

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obama isn't obeying the Constitution so yes people should attack him and anyone else against the Constitution

beyonce and jayz only voted for him based on race
That's funny because Beyonce voted for Bush way back when because he was from Texas (shes from Houston). So, I guess she discriminates based on home states, too.

So let me get this straight...Obama isnt "obeying" the Constitution...so its perfectly resonable for him to be called a "monkey", a "slave", and a "Ni**er".
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:19 AM   #99
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Forget for a minute that BO is black. If a white President did the exact same things during the last 4 years as BO would he have been reelected? I don't believe he would, but there is a slight possibility, seeing how many people now are "dependant" of the government. And therein lies the problem as I see it. That is why I think BO, besides the fact he is "black", received such a high proportion of the minority vote.

Why does everyone need a cell(obamaphone)? Why is there so much excess cash benefit handed out in the welfare program that people collecting can afford beer, cigarettes, cable tv, lottery tickets, etc? Why can I go to anyone of the people I know that get assistance with food and purchase $200-300 for $.50 on the dollar?

When I was young, for a short time, we did get welfare, and the stigma that was associated with it forced my parents to do what they had to do to get off the dole. Having to pull out paper coupons to pay for food made for some not proud moments. And there was never much cash assistance.

Maybe thats what is needed. Cut the programs so that people that want nice things like cellphones, plasma tvs, xboxs, etc have to do a little for themselves to afford it. Bring back paper food coupons, not plastic cards. Undignify public assistance.

Welfare in my eyes should be a stopgap, that barely gives you enough to survive, not make a living on it. Those changes alone should go along way in not only curing what is wrong with welfare in this country, but will force people to take those jobs that are to good for them or don't pay what they expect.

I could go on and on but I got slightly off topic.

Darron
If Obama wasn't black..he'd still get the black vote because hes a Democrat. Stop lying to yourself. Minorities aren't going to suddenly switch parties, they have been voting Democrat for a while...they will still vote Democrat.
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Old 11-08-2012, 10:20 AM   #100
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There's a pretty easy way to look at this: what was the Black vote split in Congressional/Senate races where the Republican candidate was Black and the Democrat candidate was white. Or where both were Black or both were White?
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