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Old 11-06-2012, 03:13 PM   #501
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At this point I don't think Blizzard cares if the bored people leave. And if some of these people came back when there's new content, good, but if not, it's fine.

I think the current WoW game is intentionally *not* designed to get people extremely addicted, unlike vanilla, BC, and to some extent, LK.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:24 PM   #502
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Originally Posted by Hacp View Post
Blizzard put in the daily wall in order to compensate for LFR. Dailies gives people a reason to grind every day for a piece of better gear....
They grind for better gear to make their character more powerful, though as I laid out in my previous post, dailies are far from the only way to do so. Progressing a character is pretty much a part of every RPG ever.

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...despite the fact that they've already seen the content with LFR! Once people realize that getting better gear is pointless because one, the raid content has already been experienced
You assume people are interested only in "seeing the content" on easy-mode, and not at all in experiencing a challenge. More gear gives a legitimate boost to your chances of experiencing/conquering heroic versions of fights.

I'm going to refer to Vashj (SSC) here, because it's the best example I could come up with right now. My guild wiped on her during phase 2 for weeks. It was only after a few more weeks of gearing that we had a few dps capable of handling a side solo, which allowed us to experience phase 3 and eventually down her. Think of P3 as the heroic version of current raids. Same fight, different mechanics, and we couldn't see it without better gear.

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and two, a large portion of them don't have the coordination to run even normals let alone heroics so the gear is pointless, they'll start to leave.
I don't want them in my raid anyway.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:25 PM   #503
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I agree that there was a large amount of WoW players that had difficulties in coordinating a raid to beat the normal content in WOTLK.

As I stated earlier, these are the people who will unsub once they realize that the rep grind is meaningless for them. Dailies and the rep grind was put in place to keep these people interested with the allure of getting leet gear, because LFR ruined the allure of seeing new content. They will soon realize that the leet gear they have is meaningless, except to get past the ilvl requirements for the next LFR raid.


Congrats on your accomplishments. I commend you.
It was nothing hard though. WotLK was just easy raiding in general. Once people were told what to do, stuff died fast.

I seriously do not agree with tying in rep to gear the way they have. I agree with Anubis that the Cata way with the tabards was better. People will level to 90 and just get pissed at the setup and unsub.

And yes, I broke down and bought the game. I got my Druid to 90 and am already getting disappointed with the system.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:26 PM   #504
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People that could not clear WOTLK content when it was current on normal were AWFUL. There is no other way to put it.

WOTLK
Naxx cleared in the first week or two (can't remember this one)
Obsidium Sanctum cleared in the first week
The Nexus cleared in the third week (we had some idiots that would not listen, they were replaced)

Ulduar cleared in two to three weeks (can't remember this also)

I stopped playing for 15 months after Ulduar as I thought it sucked, still do to this day, and it was not challenging at all. (I am in the minority of thinking Ulduar sucked, I just did not like the place.)

I heard ToC was a total joke. When I saw it the first time, it sure was even for me lacking full Ulduar gear.

ICC, I have never killed LK. I never cared to as the previous tiers were extremely easy.
id have to agree with this, the normal modes for everything in wrath was pretty damn easy, nexus was only hard because people failed at dragons

the hard modes is where it became difficult and if you enjoyed that Ulduar was amazing, TOC sucked ass, ICC was alright but got fed because of shitty gating and the spillover from the ass sucking of TOC

Last edited by Anubis; 11-06-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:33 PM   #505
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id have to agree with this, the normal modes for everything in wrath was pretty damn easy, nexus was only hard because people failed at dragons

the hard modes is where it became difficult and if you enjoyed that Ulduar was amazing, TOC sucked ass, ICC was alright but got fed because of shitty gating and the spillover from the ass sucking of TOC
LK was hard on normal for the majority of groups. Still is. People cant seem to understand defile.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:42 PM   #506
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dont stand in the black shit (fire) is not hard. people are just dumb.
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Old 11-06-2012, 03:55 PM   #507
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I'm going to refer to Vashj (SSC) here, because it's the best example I could come up with right now. My guild wiped on her during phase 2 for weeks. It was only after a few more weeks of gearing that we had a few dps capable of handling a side solo, which allowed us to experience phase 3 and eventually down her. Think of P3 as the heroic version of current raids. Same fight, different mechanics, and we couldn't see it without better gear.
Except people can see the new Vashj without needing gear and spending 2 weeks wiping. Once you finished BT, what did you do? Farm the same content and get bored I'm guessing.

Quote:
You assume people are interested only in "seeing the content" on easy-mode, and not at all in experiencing a challenge. More gear gives a legitimate boost to your chances of experiencing/conquering heroic versions of fights.
I'm sure there are people who want a challenge. I think the majority of people who play WoW just want to see the content. The idea of joining a raid of players to conquer a dungeon while enduring hours of wipes is cheapened by the LFR.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:03 PM   #508
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id have to agree with this, the normal modes for everything in wrath was pretty damn easy, nexus was only hard because people failed at dragons
From your perspective yes. I played on Warsong in WOTLK, back when it was a full server. Only a handful of guild were doing heroics and progressing. Then maybe double that were clearing the normals. Everyone else was running dungeons and pugging Naxx and later TOC for justice points and trinkets. They were gearing up to possibly see Ulduar or get past the champions boss in TOC, or get past Sulfaurang in ICC. Now that you get to see everything for free, there is no real reason for those people to stay on the game.
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Old 11-06-2012, 04:39 PM   #509
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Except people can see the new Vashj without needing gear and spending 2 weeks wiping.
And that right there is the difference between you and me. In your eyes/arguments, LFR and seeing content are one in the same. Is it really seeing content if one or all of a bosses abilities are trivialized to the point where half the raid doesn't know, or even need to know, what's going on? Look at the dogs in MV, nobody knows what the chains do because it doesn't matter. They barely hurt. As a mage, I don't really have to move because between ice barrier or temporal shield, I don't need much, if any, healing to live through it. Do I move? Of course I do, I have healer alts, I hate people that ignore mechanics, but that's not the point. LFR is not seeing content, LFR seeing yet another tank and spank fight.

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Originally Posted by Hacp
Once you finished BT, what did you do? Farm the same content and get bored I'm guessing.
Leveled alts. I got a new daytime job 2-3 weeks after killing Vashj (we killed KT a few weeks before), and since I play on a west coast server, raids that ran until 2am my time were no good, so I quit raiding for a while. Raid now runs only until midnight, that I can do.

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Originally Posted by Hacp
I'm sure there are people who want a challenge. I think the majority of people who play WoW just want to see the content. The idea of joining a raid of players to conquer a dungeon while enduring hours of wipes is cheapened by the LFR.
I'm sure you're right, most people probably want to see content and most people are probably content with LFR. All I'm trying to say, is the people who view LFR as seeing content are not the people I want in my raid, and I don't really care if they up and quit, except for the fact that I'll make less gold off them.

Last edited by Xonim; 11-06-2012 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 11-06-2012, 05:16 PM   #510
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Now that you get to see everything for free, there is no real reason for those people to stay on the game.
LFR is somewhere between watching a video and actually playing it. I get little to no satisfaction out of LFR but I'll still run it to get a taste. While that may be the case for you pretty much no one in my 10 man group feels the same way. We absolutely want to see normal and hard modes.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:14 PM   #511
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apparently Garalon (3rd boss) on the new LFR is really tough to pug.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:22 PM   #512
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Yeah he has mechanics you have to pay attention to, probably be nerfed soon.
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Old 11-06-2012, 06:47 PM   #513
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I'm sure you're right, most people probably want to see content and most people are probably content with LFR. All I'm trying to say, is the people who view LFR as seeing content are not the people I want in my raid, and I don't really care if they up and quit, except for the fact that I'll make less gold off them.
So why make some random comments on my remarks about dailies if you don't care about it?
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Old 11-06-2012, 10:16 PM   #514
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Is it me or Death Knight is a bit boring to play?
Sure i'm only level 58 but it's not that fun...btw i'm a Frost DK.

I'm gonna try something else and certainly not Pandas...maybe a Lock or a Pally or a War?!?!!?
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Old 11-07-2012, 05:21 AM   #515
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apparently Garalon (3rd boss) on the new LFR is really tough to pug.



Quote:
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Yeah he has mechanics you have to pay attention to, probably be nerfed soon.
I jumped into lfr last night and got a run that was at garalon, we got him on the first try with few deaths.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:06 AM   #516
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I already stated what challenging meant to me. The numbers don't lie, a large portion of the population didn't get to even complete normal modes in WOTLK until a tier later.

I feel as if you are not reading before typing. The point of gearing up is to upgrade your character in order to raid.

A) Reguardless of what the population did. From personal and group experiences, the mechanics and difficulty of the fights in wotlk were simple. Just because they were more complex then faceroll, like the 5 man heroics, many people didnt get to do current content because well... they were not good players.

Not meaning on being an asshole, but it is the truth.

B) Right you gear up to raid. Why do you raid? to gear up for the next raid. And in that raid what is your goal? get more gear for the NEXT raid. It is an endless cycle, and those that realize this see how the gear cycle is endless and they are the ones that walk away from MMOs after a month or 2 on WoW. If someone doesn't raid they do not need to worry about gear because they are not intending on going onto the next raid that it supports. Sure some still care about it, but not for long, via the carrot on the stick comment.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:08 AM   #517
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I see your point, but I think your focus on dailies is misplaced. I'm in agreeance with the blue posts that went up on mmo-champion today or yesterday or day before. Nobody MAKES you do dailies. It's not like you need to grind GL exalted to gain attunement for the LFR or normal versions MV. Dailies are there as an option to supplement your "good enough" gear if you so choose.

This.

Dailies are not required. It is just an alternate way to obtain gear. You can get full 489+ ilevel from normal MV, and higher even in HoF, and soon the next raid.

Now if there was a rep that was required to do some kind of enchant like last 2 expansions, I could see a legit argument on dailies being an issue.
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Old 11-07-2012, 07:13 AM   #518
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LFR is somewhere between watching a video and actually playing it. I get little to no satisfaction out of LFR but I'll still run it to get a taste. While that may be the case for you pretty much no one in my 10 man group feels the same way. We absolutely want to see normal and hard modes.

This, I just do LFR as a way to obtain better than 463 gear.

Overall it does in no way feel like I experienced any content because.... people dont take damage like they do in normal. Its ridiculous.
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Old 11-07-2012, 08:28 AM   #519
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LFR is somewhere between watching a video and actually playing it. I get little to no satisfaction out of LFR but I'll still run it to get a taste. While that may be the case for you pretty much no one in my 10 man group feels the same way. We absolutely want to see normal and hard modes.
I love LFR. my guild raids but only 3-4 gear up fast. This allows many to get gear and learn the basics. I enjoy it because as the Tank of my guild it gives me a idea on exactly WTF is going on.

we will do normal (will clear) and hit hard (won't get to far though). but we have more emphasis on having fun then being a top raiding guild.


as for dialy's if you don't like them don't do them. I love the Tillers and fishing ones. teh rest are meh (ok klaxxe are ok). But most gear is from raid or BS (though hate having proff tied to daily's)
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Old 11-07-2012, 09:33 AM   #520
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as for dialy's if you don't like them don't do them. I love the Tillers and fishing ones. teh rest are meh (ok klaxxe are ok).
I didn't mind the Tillers ones at first, but I've been doing them on 3 characters for now, so I'm getting a little tired of them. I got my rogue to revered last night, so I'll be stopping on that and just get the rest of the way by planting/harvesting whatever plant gives motes of harmony, turning to golden lotus, and making 300g / day for 5 mins work. My mage/cook will hit exalted probably tomorrow to unlock the extra 4 plots, and my warrior will hit revered tomorrow, which is good enough because it unlocks the mote plant for blacksmithing.

-Anglers - Indifferent. Haven't been doing them every day because it's just fishing. I'll do them if I'm in the area.
-August Celestials - Like, nice and quick no matter which one it is
-Cloud Serpent - Not too bad, though if I do them again, I probably will skip the arch/fishing/cooking/first aid ones. I have a lot more cloth for imperial silk now that I'm not using 8/day (about all I get on a non-tailor) for bandages.
-Golden Lotus - Like, unless gankers are out
-Klaxxi - Dislike
-ShadoPan - Dislike because they take longer than the others, and the mobs are so......dense, if that makes sense.
-Tillers - Liked at first, will probably like more when I'm not doing them 3x daily.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:28 PM   #521
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I jumped into lfr last night and got a run that was at garalon, we got him on the first try with few deaths.
You got in at that point because they wiped a few times first and people dropped.
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Old 11-07-2012, 01:50 PM   #522
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You got in at that point because they wiped a few times first and people dropped.
One of my guildies said they were hotfixing things throughout the night, specifically with that boss. He claims the boss's total maximum health dropped 20+ million between attempts. No idea if it's true or not, I was doing cooking dailies and LFR part 2 of MV and raid prep for tonight.
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:01 PM   #523
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once I realized that the valor cap, not reputation grinding, is the real gate in place, I stopped stressing about dailies.

I'm only focusing on 2 factions at a time (current getting Klaxxi to exalted and August Celestials to revered... once those are done, I'm going to get GL to exalted then I'm done till 5.1... no interest in grinding Celestials or Shado-Pan to exalted)
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Old 11-07-2012, 03:05 PM   #524
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Is it me or Death Knight is a bit boring to play?
Sure i'm only level 58 but it's not that fun...btw i'm a Frost DK.

I'm gonna try something else and certainly not Pandas...maybe a Lock or a Pally or a War?!?!!?
I have an 85 Death Knight, and I don't mind him at all. He's dual-wield Frost, which can be fun with the ridiculous amount of incidental AoE damage that you deal. I always had fun trying to beat our Death Knight on Yor'sahj while I was on my rogue as my AoE isn't as "ez-mode" (it's slightly harder to turn Blade Flurry on ). Anyway, you're probably too low-level to really enjoy it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 04:12 PM   #525
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once I realized that the valor cap, not reputation grinding, is the real gate in place, I stopped stressing about dailies.

I'm only focusing on 2 factions at a time (current getting Klaxxi to exalted and August Celestials to revered... once those are done, I'm going to get GL to exalted then I'm done till 5.1... no interest in grinding Celestials or Shado-Pan to exalted)
Yeah the less-stress way to do it is:
Klaxxi+GL to revered, Tillers to exalted.
Once GL is revered, do Shado-Pan+Celestials to revered continue with Tillers.
One SP/Celestials are revered grind whatever you want to exalted for the "fun" stuff.
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